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Discussion: Age Of Conan: Hyborian Adventures / Age Of Conan - General Discussion - Race or Server Type? - I strongly prefer that we set our guild up on the PVE server. I enjoy
  1. #31

    ruddysamurai's Avatar

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    I strongly prefer that we set our guild up on the PVE server. I enjoy PVP and I think the guild vs. guild battles will fill that need for me. I don't want to spend the majority of my time looking over my shoulder worried about getting attacked while trying to complete a quest.

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  3. #32

    Turbinator's Avatar

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruddysamurai View Post
    I strongly prefer that we set our guild up on the PVE server. I enjoy PVP and I think the guild vs. guild battles will fill that need for me. I don't want to spend the majority of my time looking over my shoulder worried about getting attacked while trying to complete a quest.
    they have a bounty system for that in place.

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  5. #33

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
    they have a bounty system for that in place.
    Bounty systems dont alleviate PvP concerns... they just add an element to the economy. Matter of fact, in many ways it enhances PvP.

    I'm still a bit on-the-fence about this though. Conan is a game where you can easily justify a fully PvP server... but at the same time having a "controlled" and organized PvE gaming experience definitely has its perks.

    I will say this though, if you thought maintaining an effective PvE guild was hard, it's MUCH harder doing-so as PvP. Now, if you just want to run around ganking people as some kind of "brigand" guild that's different... but, if you expect to fully engage in all PvE alongside PvP in an organized fashion - get ready to lose your soul.

    If I had to set it up myself, I'd likely form 2 guilds in one and task one of them as "the Army." Basically, they'd be PvP elites led by a largely autonomous general. That way, the main core of the guild can act somewhat under protection of qualified PvPers while focusing on the PvE aspect. I mentioned this before in another thread I think. I'm not a fan of trying to muddle everyone together under one playstyle, especially where TG is concerned.

    AoC I think has the ability for TG to utilize its size and flexibility in that we could easily go into a fully PvP server and still act mostly PvE. In a way, it'd be like a complete "empire" in the truest sense... with crafters, soldiers, and adventurers all rolled into one guild - but acting largely separate.

    The benefit with PvE is that you have more control over when/where these playstyles take place... enabling people to more easily switch roles. (sigh)

    Extremely tough choice... definitely will require a vote

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  7. #34

    TheFatKidDeath's Avatar

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Gambit, having a sub-guild that is more PVP centered is a good idea. The "Army" led by a general would coordinate, organize and lead PVP outings. If someone has good experience with PVP than by all means step up and take the lead. The "General" responsibilities might include:

    -Getting guild members up to speed on all aspects of PVP.
    -Go to member for all things PVP.
    -Posting threads on PVP tactics and after action reports.
    -Organizing PVP raids, setting start times, etc.

    Since this is my first MMO and no experience in PVP in game I'm not really sure what too expect. Personally, I'm more inclined to PVE than PVP but will certainly try my sword.
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  9. #35

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    A lot of this depends on the PvP content of the game. I think everyone needs to understand how it works exactly before really deciding. Personally, I'm rusty on the pvp server aspects of AoC... so I aint making judgement.

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  11. #36

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit7 View Post
    Bounty systems dont alleviate PvP concerns... they just add an element to the economy. Matter of fact, in many ways it enhances PvP.

    I'm still a bit on-the-fence about this though. Conan is a game where you can easily justify a fully PvP server... but at the same time having a "controlled" and organized PvE gaming experience definitely has its perks.

    I will say this though, if you thought maintaining an effective PvE guild was hard, it's MUCH harder doing-so as PvP. Now, if you just want to run around ganking people as some kind of "brigand" guild that's different... but, if you expect to fully engage in all PvE alongside PvP in an organized fashion - get ready to lose your soul.

    If I had to set it up myself, I'd likely form 2 guilds in one and task one of them as "the Army." Basically, they'd be PvP elites led by a largely autonomous general. That way, the main core of the guild can act somewhat under protection of qualified PvPers while focusing on the PvE aspect. I mentioned this before in another thread I think. I'm not a fan of trying to muddle everyone together under one playstyle, especially where TG is concerned.

    AoC I think has the ability for TG to utilize its size and flexibility in that we could easily go into a fully PvP server and still act mostly PvE. In a way, it'd be like a complete "empire" in the truest sense... with crafters, soldiers, and adventurers all rolled into one guild - but acting largely separate.

    The benefit with PvE is that you have more control over when/where these playstyles take place... enabling people to more easily switch roles. (sigh)

    Extremely tough choice... definitely will require a vote
    I agree. I think a PvP server could be fun but I want a more controlled experience and it seems like it would take time out of your playing. You would always have to stop and consider your safety before you go anywhere or do anything. If I wanted to collect resources or complete a quest I couldn't just go do it safely without a group for protection. I would have to stop and find a group of suitable size and convince them to come with me before venturing out. If I always had many hours a day to play this wouldn't be an issue but I don't. I don't usually play during peak hours either and this may make it difficult to find a group of guild mates. I want to spend the little time I have doing what I want not running around trying to survive constant unwanted encounters. I think the PvE servers will appeal more to casual gamers. Of course how the PvP servers work in practice makes a difference. If the risk of dying is small enough you could still enjoy yourself while knowing that there is a small chance that you could get attacked, which could greatly increase your immersion in the game. When I imagine a PvP server I think of a FFA non-stop slaughterfest.
    Last edited by ruddysamurai; 03-12-2008 at 04:49 PM.

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  13. #37

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Let me chime in as a WoW player that has played on both PvP and PvE servers.

    In WoW, PvP servers are free-for-all save for a very few introductory zones. This means that as you're running around trying to do a quest that should take 10min, it could be extended into an hour or more simply because someone wants to be a jackass and kill you repeatedly for no other reason than he knows it frustrates you. On the other hand, PvE servers save the PvP interaction as voluntary only, either by entering an instanced PvP zone or turning on a PvP flag that lets someone attack you wherever you are if they desire to.

    My first several characters were a PAIN IN THE ASS to play because I leveled them on PvP servers. I never got close to the level cap because it really wasn't fun to spend 90% of my time dying or running away from some endgame character that wanted to mess with me. Once I switched over to a PvE server, it was like being in heaven. Wait, you mean I can do a quest and NOT have to retrieve my corpse every 30sec? Sign me up!

    Of course, we don't know a ton about how AoC PvP vs. PvE servers will be set up, but I'd be willing to bet they'll follow a similar model. I think joining a PvP server and setting up a PvP faction within the PvE guild is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how well it will work. Toward the beginning, your PvP people will be spending time making themselves ready for player combat, likely leaving the pure PvE players exposed. You also run the risk of your PvP people becoming bored and listless. I mean, I'm all for protecting my fellow guildies, but I don't relish the idea of spending my 4-8 hours a day on the game following around John the Newbie in case he gets attacked while questing. :P You also have to consider the idea that your PvP exploits may result in retaliation against your PvE players.

    One last thing to consider is that, going off of the WoW model, PvP and PvE do not mix well. Each area tends to require different skills/talents (game-wise, not player skill), and a person who specializes in one type of play will likely be deficient in the other, sometimes greatly so, all simply because of how they designed their character. Some people can afford and have the ability to adapt between the two arenas of play, but most won't. So really, it tends to come down to pick a direction and stick with it.

    Of course, this could all be bunk once we see how AoC is actually set up. :P However, from what I've read, I'm not seeing a whole lot that's different from WoW or any other typical MMO. The leveling/class system is different, and the combat system is new and innovative, but it's still going to come down to getting weapons/armor and putting points into different abilities. Inevitably, those pieces of gear and abilities will fall under either the "suited to kill monsters" or the "suited to kill players" category.

    If there's a pretty even mix of players who desire PvP versus players who desire PvE, the safest bet would be to join the PvE server (again, depending on how AoC sets up the servers). That way, the PvE players don't get ganked every 2sec, and your PvP players still have areas to go for the conflict they want. It's really the best "please everyone" solution there is. I can pretty much guarantee you that if the PvP servers are indeed free for all madness, the PvE players will become very unhappy very quickly.

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  15. #38

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    I think what we also have to remember is that in reality the PvE servers in AoC are still largely PvP. Probably half the entire game design is geared towards inter-guild siege-combat either for Keeps and/or Cities. This doesnt even include their battleground plans.

    Really, you could field a large contigent of pvp-ish type folk and they'd be perfectly happy on the PvE server.

    Judging by the interest TG seems to have in a Guild City, obviously it'd be a much more attainable (and maintainable) goal on a PvE server.

    But, I'm still interested in seeing really how the PvP server reward and leveling system works. If they make it interesting and rewarding enough, then it might be worth looking into. But, generally, PvE always trumps the PvP servers.

    You can bet that the majority of MMO games will start taking similar formats to AoC and WAR (RvR type PvE combat). It's basically enlarged, more meaningful battlegrounds that have a greater effect on the gameplay as a whole... rather than WoW, which pretty much only effects your gear.

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  17. #39

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit7 View Post

    Judging by the interest TG seems to have in a Guild City, obviously it'd be a much more attainable (and maintainable) goal on a PvE server.
    Surprisingly, considering TG was based and is based around tactical shooters mostly, or shooters that require teamwork, communication and etc (tactics).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit7 View Post
    But, I'm still interested in seeing really how the PvP server reward and leveling system works. If they make it interesting and rewarding enough, then it might be worth looking into. But, generally, PvE always trumps the PvP servers.
    Thats because every other mmo to date had PVP as an afterthought(cant speak for ultima and shadowbane)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit7 View Post
    You can bet that the majority of MMO games will start taking similar formats to AoC and WAR (RvR type PvE combat). It's basically enlarged, more meaningful battlegrounds that have a greater effect on the gameplay as a whole... rather than WoW, which pretty much only effects your gear.
    very true , the whole reason we need to have TG guild on PVP server, otherwise I would be playing by my lonesome .

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  19. #40

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Wait a sec and back up a moment.

    First off: I think I missed something about PvE RvR in AoC. Where was that mentioned?

    Secondly: I don't think Turbinator knows what that means since he's pushing for PvP. RvR PvE means all servers are generally PvE and competition is between realms not actually factions on the server.

    I think the only difference between PvE servers and PvP servers were mentioned earlier. In PvP servers you have annoying 12 year old brats power leveling and finding amusement ganking you repeatedly sucking the fun out of the game. PvE you don't have that, but you have the option to PvP when you feel like it.

    People say playing on PvP servers is more 'hardcore'.
    I call them masochists.
    My sanity is not in question...
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    Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.




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  21. #41

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
    Surprisingly, considering TG was based and is based around tactical shooters mostly, or shooters that require teamwork, communication and etc (tactics).
    The difference is that in shooters, basically your only goal is to kill the other team. In the case that there are "levels" earned by ranks that give better equipment upgrades (e.g. BF2, CoD4), the equipment people gain access to is more "different" than necessarily "better". You still have a good chance to beat the other guy.

    In MMO's, your goal is to level, kill the big monster, find the treasure, etc. These things become frustratingly hard when all you want to do is turn in your quest items for the reward, but a group of max level characters with gear 100x better than yours decided to drop down to the low-level area and repeatedly kill you and the quest giver. Not sure if you've played any MMO's Turbinator, but these scenarios basically equate to going after a tank with a pistol; tactics don't generally mean much by then.

    If the PvP realms turn out to be open PvP (as in anywhere, any time), then I can guarantee you that what I described will happen. There will be a class of people that will likely hit the max level within 2 weeks (if not sooner), and a fair portion of those will then turn around and cause chaos for those trailing.

    I also didn't see anything about realm vs. realm with regard to PvP.

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  23. #42

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Sorry I havent responded lately to this thread as my net has been shaky and the local ISP wont browse to TG for some reason

    Anyways, what I meant by "RvR" game mechanic is simply large groups of people fighting against eachother from different factions, guilds, or even servers. You may indeed want to call the TG guild city + environs a "Realm" once it is built. When we battle other guilds and NPCs for resources and lands, one could call that RvR.

    Now, obviously WAR is a more expansive RvR... but if you take apart the underlying mechanic, AoC has nearly the same thing but on a smaller scale. You will still have to quest, gather, and fight for the good of the Realm. PvE RvR in AoC is such that you need to quest and gather to gain the resources needed to build and expand the realm, even to the point of attacking others. So yes, in a way there is PvE RvR in AoC. You are battling the environment to enrich your own realm against others.

    But, back to pvp-ness... we still need to see the risk/reward system before passing judgement. If we dont before release and/or it's just an unfinished PvP system, then I definitely vote to pop a guild on a PvE server. "Bragging rights" is generally not enough for every player to hang their gaming hats on in an MMO; there has to be shiny lewts and dancing girls.

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  25. #43

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Ahh...I see what you mean. You're looping RvR into PvP by giving RvR a completely different definition. ^_^

    RvR is Realm Vs Realm and means the people you play with on the same server aren't opponents, but allies. Its like being on a very big team where you all work to beat the crap out of another team on another server. Its like you've joined the military and your guild is a platoon. You might have a rival platoon in the same military you butt heads with, but ultimately your army is supposed to go up against other armies and not fight amongst itself.

    TG city vs Environment is PvE because it is Player Vs Environment. Thus why its called PvE. It is not a form of RvR PvP because it does not involve any opposition from another player.

    Now, battlekeep PvP in AOC is PvE synergy with PvP. You cannot succeed in seige PvP without a strong PvE base because you need the resources and personnel to actually build the battlekeep. It is also contained completely within the server and between guilds and not factions. In fact, I'm not sure there are any recognized factions at all and only three races and four class archetypes.

    PvP = Player vs Player and denotes conflict between two or more players
    PvE = Player vs Environment and denotes conflict between player and the world
    RvR = Realm vs Realm and denotes conflict between servers
    RvR PvP = Player conflict where one server/realm acts like a giant team and you compete against players on another server
    RvR PvE = Player conflict where one server/realm acts like a giant team, but instead of fighting other players you are racing to complete more objectives than your opponent


    Anyhow, going back to the comment about a smaller 'PvP guild army' within the larger guild...that will fail and fail baddly. The guild set up for AoC is very unique and is geared towards large organized guilds instead of smaller cliche groups. With a subguild you will not have the personel or resources to participate actively in PvP unless you limit yourself to battleground conflicts for PvPXP. If you want to do only BG style PvP you might as well just play WoW because its the same damn thing. Not to mention you only have guild bonuses for the first guild you join with your ACCOUNT and not your CHARACTER as per the FAQ on the website.

    Seige PvP is based around a ticketing system remember. The more bodies you have around the objective the easier it will be for you to garner tickets and every death you sustain will cause you to lose tickets. Its quite possible for a larger guild to just waltz in and zerg the opposition to wipe out tickets and start acquiring some simply with a larger presence at the objective.
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  27. #44

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan View Post
    The difference is that in shooters, basically your only goal is to kill the other team. In the case that there are "levels" earned by ranks that give better equipment upgrades (e.g. BF2, CoD4), the equipment people gain access to is more "different" than necessarily "better". You still have a good chance to beat the other guy.

    In MMO's, your goal is to level, kill the big monster, find the treasure, etc. These things become frustratingly hard when all you want to do is turn in your quest items for the reward, but a group of max level characters with gear 100x better than yours decided to drop down to the low-level area and repeatedly kill you and the quest giver. Not sure if you've played any MMO's Turbinator, but these scenarios basically equate to going after a tank with a pistol; tactics don't generally mean much by then.

    If the PvP realms turn out to be open PvP (as in anywhere, any time), then I can guarantee you that what I described will happen. There will be a class of people that will likely hit the max level within 2 weeks (if not sooner), and a fair portion of those will then turn around and cause chaos for those trailing.

    I also didn't see anything about realm vs. realm with regard to PvP.
    I've played lots since 2002. In regards to your point, then combat in AoC is not all its cracked up(by Funcom) to be.

    We shall see.

    PS. RvR is specific to WAR, Funcom has never discussed any RVR pvp options.

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  29. #45

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    Re: Race or Server Type?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan View Post
    The difference is that in shooters, basically your only goal is to kill the other team. In the case that there are "levels" earned by ranks that give better equipment upgrades (e.g. BF2, CoD4), the equipment people gain access to is more "different" than necessarily "better". You still have a good chance to beat the other guy.

    In MMO's, your goal is to level, kill the big monster, find the treasure, etc. These things become frustratingly hard when all you want to do is turn in your quest items for the reward, but a group of max level characters with gear 100x better than yours decided to drop down to the low-level area and repeatedly kill you and the quest giver. Not sure if you've played any MMO's Turbinator, but these scenarios basically equate to going after a tank with a pistol; tactics don't generally mean much by then.

    If the PvP realms turn out to be open PvP (as in anywhere, any time), then I can guarantee you that what I described will happen. There will be a class of people that will likely hit the max level within 2 weeks (if not sooner), and a fair portion of those will then turn around and cause chaos for those trailing.

    I also didn't see anything about realm vs. realm with regard to PvP.
    Smoking, to your point on players leveling within 2 weeks and then causing chaos for those trailing, I believe I read that in AOC PVP areas you can only engage other players who are within 10-15 levels of your character. So, a level 70 could not fight a level 20. Not sure how PVP is handled in other MMO's, however.

    It sounds and reads like everyone would be keen on participating in a bit of everything: PVE,PVP,city building,etc. Hopefully, everyone agrees as we (I) don't want the AOC to be just about one thing which leds to stagnation.
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