Class Interview:The Temple of Set

**TheFatKidDeath** · 03-18-2008, 10:55 AM

Newest class.

http://community.ageofconan.com/wsp/...&table=CONTENT

**Tarenth** · 03-18-2008, 02:57 PM

As much as I'd love to play a monolithical stone structure the Tempest of Set doesn't have much in common with the Temple.

That said, a AoE damage focused priest class is intriguing. However I can't help but have some twinges of fear when they mention how skill reliant the class is. Skill being something in short demand in MMORPGs a lot and thus making a class seem less effective than it was designed to be.

**SmokingTarpan** · 03-19-2008, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Tarenth

However I can't help but have some twinges of fear when they mention how skill reliant the class is. Skill being something in short demand in MMORPGs a lot and thus making a class seem less effective than it was designed to be.

Well, there's always one or two classes in an MMO that basically become more defined by player skill than just by the class itself. Take a rogue in WoW, for example. Basically your highest single-target damage class there is, and everyone and their brother has one. But to really hit the high numbers takes skill and research. I have routinely outdone better-geared rogues simply because I'm more skilled than they are.

Really though, every class is ultimately defined by player skill, and people who are really skilled players and spend tons of time with their class will do leaps and bounds better than the average masses who just kinda show up and press buttons. I don't think the Tempest will be useless if a player isn't highly-skilled, it just won't be crazy powerful. Which is a good thing, in my opinion. Do you want what looks to be one of the most dangerous classes in AoC to be a "steamroller" for just anyone who makes one? :P

**Grieg** · 03-19-2008, 05:24 PM

I like the idea of a class, or a game, which relies more on skill than items to make me good.

**Turbinator** · 03-21-2008, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

Really though, every class is ultimately defined by player skill, and people who are really skilled players and spend tons of time with their class will do leaps and bounds better than the average masses who just kinda show up and press buttons.

you press buttons more efficiently?

Rogue with Tier 1 from MC has no chance vs Tier 6.
That same rogue with Tier 1 knows the abilities of his rogue, very well by the time he gets Tier 1.

PS. Tarpan please don't take this the wrong way, as a flame or anything of that sort.

**SmokingTarpan** · 03-21-2008, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Turbinator

you press buttons more efficiently?

Technically, yes.

Rogue with Tier 1 from MC has no chance vs Tier 6.
That same rogue with Tier 1 knows the abilities of his rogue, very well by the time he gets Tier 1.

PS. Tarpan please don't take this the wrong way, as a flame or anything of that sort.

Nah, I don't take it as a flame. I just don't think you understand how big a factor skill is in a game like this. Let me put it another way: Not long after hitting 70, I went into a dungeon with another rogue in the party. He was in mostly blues and a few raid purples, I was in mostly greens with a blue or two. I slaughtered him on the damage meters (without being an idiot and risking my party). By the same token, I constantly outdo the other rogues in my guild who have gotten far more upgrades (I'm talking 3-4x more upgrades, heh).

Also, comparing T1 gear to T6 gear is like comparing a tricycle to to a porsche. Gear levels in the expansion are drastically different than before, and many of the mechanics have changed as well. Ask a rogue that raided both pre- and post-BC, and you'll see that the game has changed drastically, and not just in gear either. New mechanics, new ways of doing things. Someone trying to play now in the exact same way they did pre-BC will generally be an utter failure.

Skill in an MMO isn't quite the same thing as skill in an FPS, but there is still skill. Pressing buttons more efficiently like you jibbed earlier is partially true; developing a sense of timing is key to getting things done. But there's also knowing what to do and when, as well as what NOT to do, knowing your skill rotations, being able to adapt to changing situations, having the ability to instruct others on what to do in the middle of a chaotic fight, etc.

Trust me, I've run into people that have been playing the game far longer than myself that don't have a clue what they're doing- some don't even know how to find north on the mini-map. If you want to be truly good at your class, it takes practice time and research on your job. If the only thing that mattered were gear/level, everyone would be equally progressed. Trust me, the last thing you want is to have a game where everyone is equal so long as they show up and press a button or two. That's why I'm glad to see what looks to be a very powerful class as having a higher than average skill requirement.

**Turbinator** · 03-22-2008, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

Technically, yes.

Nah, I don't take it as a flame. I just don't think you understand how big a factor skill is in a game like this. Let me put it another way: Not long after hitting 70, I went into a dungeon with another rogue in the party. He was in mostly blues and a few raid purples, I was in mostly greens with a blue or two. I slaughtered him on the damage meters (without being an idiot and risking my party). By the same token, I constantly outdo the other rogues in my guild who have gotten far more upgrades (I'm talking 3-4x more upgrades, heh).

Also, comparing T1 gear to T6 gear is like comparing a tricycle to to a porsche. Gear levels in the expansion are drastically different than before, and many of the mechanics have changed as well. Ask a rogue that raided both pre- and post-BC, and you'll see that the game has changed drastically, and not just in gear either. New mechanics, new ways of doing things. Someone trying to play now in the exact same way they did pre-BC will generally be an utter failure.

Skill in an MMO isn't quite the same thing as skill in an FPS, but there is still skill. Pressing buttons more efficiently like you jibbed earlier is partially true; developing a sense of timing is key to getting things done. But there's also knowing what to do and when, as well as what NOT to do, knowing your skill rotations, being able to adapt to changing situations, having the ability to instruct others on what to do in the middle of a chaotic fight, etc.

Trust me, I've run into people that have been playing the game far longer than myself that don't have a clue what they're doing- some don't even know how to find north on the mini-map. If you want to be truly good at your class, it takes practice time and research on your job. If the only thing that mattered were gear/level, everyone would be equally progressed. Trust me, the last thing you want is to have a game where everyone is equal so long as they show up and press a button or two. That's why I'm glad to see what looks to be a very powerful class as having a higher than average skill requirement.

I suppose my point can be summarized like this, although somewhat vaguely:

Shaman vs Shaman, and Druid vs Druid( nature specced if I recall correctly) do those duels still take awhile?

Pre BC they did for sure.

Skill in MMO combat I am looking for is not who hits buttons more efficiently(waiting on cool downs on skills) or drinks health pot or mana pot at precise moment.

Ranged combat in AoC is exactly what I am looking for in an MMO combat requiring skill (we'll see how it plays out thought).

**SmokingTarpan** · 03-22-2008, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Turbinator

Shaman vs Shaman, and Druid vs Druid( nature specced if I recall correctly) do those duels still take awhile?

Any duel these days can take an equally long or equally short time. However, it's rare that you'll get 1v1 combat, as most of the time you'll be either in Battlegrounds or Arenas where it's mutiple people vs. multiple people. I'd say on average once combat is engaged, someone drops in about 10-15sec, with it being longer/shorter depending on a difference in skill, gear or both (teammate support, of course, being the silent 3rd factor). Not really sure what you're trying to show with the shammy/druid example.

I think AoC is going to take a higher level of skill than WoW simply due to the lack of an auto-attack feature. Everything you do is under your direct control. I just want to make sure that involves more than, "Press the fireball button and every enemy within 10 yards dies."

**Turbinator** · 03-24-2008, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

Any duel these days can take an equally long or equally short time. However, it's rare that you'll get 1v1 combat, as most of the time you'll be either in Battlegrounds or Arenas where it's mutiple people vs. multiple people. I'd say on average once combat is engaged, someone drops in about 10-15sec, with it being longer/shorter depending on a difference in skill, gear or both (teammate support, of course, being the silent 3rd factor). Not really sure what you're trying to show with the shammy/druid example.

I think AoC is going to take a higher level of skill than WoW simply due to the lack of an auto-attack feature. Everything you do is under your direct control. I just want to make sure that involves more than, "Press the fireball button and every enemy within 10 yards dies."

an example about shaman vs shaman is an easy way to determine if game requires skill or efficient button mashing, if you will.

Ranger vs Ranger in AoC will be only skill due to manual aiming.

**SmokingTarpan** · 03-24-2008, 09:58 AM

You'll still have other factors involved such as feats/abilities/etc that affect your shots, I'm sure. There's no way it'll be so simple as point and click.

I guess we just disagree as to what constitutes skill. I don't think the ability to aim a shot is a critical definition, really. It's one type of skill, for sure, but not the only type. And you still have to press a button efficiently to do it. :P

To me, skill is the ability to time things effectively, position oneself strategically and to be able to quickly adapt to chaotic situations. That covers everything from RTS to FPS games. I think that defining "skill" as the ability to aim a cross-hair is a rather narrow look at things, really. I was never that great of a shot in BF2, but I was a hell of a squad leader due to how I employed tactics, maneuvered my squad and motivated my teammates. I'd say that half the time I wasn't even shooting, just directing traffic and coordinating things to get the job done. Does that mean that I had no skill, while the lone sniper on the hilltop with nothing more than quick reflexes had tons?

No flames here, just saying that I think you might want to broaden your outlook on what constitutes "skill" in games.