Re: Open Beta: Thoughts

**Zoopy** · 05-03-2008, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Grieg

My biggest concerns was the class balancing in the PVP weekend. Some classes pwned everything they saw. Others couldn't do squat, or were easily countered.

If this is going to be a massive scale PVP game, I need to know that I'm not completely assing myself out of being a solid combatant by having picked a class that just can't hang in PVP. I saw a lot of this in the pvp weekend beta.

PvP weekend was only level 20. You can't expect everything to be 100% balanced that early in the game. Plus with the Assassin exploit it was even more difficult to see balance.

**Gambit7** · 05-03-2008, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Zoopy

PvP weekend was only level 20. You can't expect everything to be 100% balanced that early in the game. Plus with the Assassin exploit it was even more difficult to see balance.

Precisely, endgame balance is what the devs truly strive for... not grind-game balance. I can tell you from playing many of the classes that they're close ENOUGH in balance, but it's definitely not perfect. Some are definitely more powerful then others in the early levels... but as expected, the weaker ones seem to catch up later on.

**teamjawbox** · 05-03-2008, 06:10 PM

hey all. i played roughly 10hrs or so yesterday levelling up a Conqueror. ill be honest, i havent bought into the aoc hype at all over the last year or so. tbh, i said i wouldnt even try the game......until now. even though i experience a few crashes, and lots of interface bugs, and lag spikes from hell (which is all to be expected in a beta where you're stress testing the servers) i found myself racing to log back in and keep going. i know that we're only allowed to lvl to 13 in the open beta so i havent even began to scratch the surface, but i think they did a pretty good job from what little ive seen. dont get me wrong, the game may be the worst thing ever at end game, but somehow after all my negativity about this IP, im going to give it a go. dont get me wrong, i def. have my probs with it. the cut scenes, oh god the cut scenes. but i'll give them credit for the different approach theyve taken. Guild Wars has cutscenes in the missions, but when you get a quest its still text based just like WoW and most other MMO's. the combat and movement is a lil too "console'ish'" for me, but the finishing moves and combos more than made up for that. my biggest complaint though is healers. ive always been a hardcore healing class player. i was the healing class channel leader in WoW in my guild (incite-guild.org) for a few years and im pretty let down with it in this game. i really dont see myself ever playing a healer in AoC which is disappointing to me. there really arent any burst heal spells, theyre more like generic HoT's, but not even that good. plus if youre playing a healing class you dont have crap for defense. but maybe thats just the hardcore element of it. i know in the good ole days of WoW, if you were a healer, you couldnt go out questing by yourself, youd die. i loved that element. that you had certain classes tht did certain things and everyone depended on the other to do their part. WoW now days, every class can kick the others butt. Blizz really made huge efforts to balance all classes. Anyway, that's just my two cents. ive really had a blast so far, and im really looking forward to playing the gold version when it comes out. thanks!!

**Grieg** · 05-03-2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by teamjawbox

... my biggest complaint though is healers. ...and im pretty let down with it in this game. i really dont see myself ever playing a healer in AoC which is disappointing to me. there really arent any burst heal spells, theyre more like generic HoT's, but not even that good. plus if youre playing a healing class you dont have crap for defense.

... WoW now days, every class can kick the others butt. Blizz really made huge efforts to balance all classes.

I completely disagree with the last statement. Priests in WoW have very little PVP/Arena survivablilty. Look at the top Arena teams and you'll find druids and paladin as the main healing classes, then there is a large void seperating 1st and 2nd from the 3rd place healers: Shaman. Priests come up in last place by such a wide margin, its not funny. For a class designed around healing, they just can't.

Anyway... in AOC I noticed the same thing you have. The heals were lackluster, at best. And in PVP (at level 20) all but one lacked any damage potential. The Tempest of Set seemed to be the only real PVP capable healer of the 3, which was quite disappointing. The Bear Shaman was going to be my first pick for my healing class, but with minimal combo ability and the puny heals all the priest classes get, I don't forsee them being very survivable.

But... as its been pointed out, this is just Beta. Once the game actually kicks off, we'll see how it goes.

**Gambit7** · 05-03-2008, 07:55 PM

The "holy trinity" style healing model wasnt in the devs plans for this game. Some people like this idea, some dont. Healers in AoC are designed to be deadly before they heal and is a bit of the icing on the cake, so to speak. It was never designed to be a main function, only an additive one. Hell, most of the healing classes also can fire ranged weapons, wear some armor, and slice n' dice just like the soldier class.

If you think about it... if they made hardcore healers then they'd totally bork their combat engine. There would be no need to strat. your formations, defense, shielding, etc. You could just sit there and spam heal. So, in a way... it's a catch-22.

Also, remember... the 1st 20 levels are "tutorial mode" and dont represent the game at all really. The balance totally shifts later on, along with skills, combos, feats, etc.

**SmokingTarpan** · 05-03-2008, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Grieg

I completely disagree with the last statement. Priests in WoW have very little PVP/Arena survivablilty.

Go up against a disc priest with full resilience and a good team, and you might change your tune. :P I've lost more than one match because we couldn't get the priest below 80% health no matter what we did, and my group's gear did not suck.

It actually sounds kinda promising to me that healers aren't your traditional playstyle here. If you think about it, in the Conan universe real magic and healing seem to be quite uncommon; most of your adventurers are just warrior/rogue types running around trying to kill before being killed. There's no one there to wave their hands and mystically close up that gaping spear wound for you, you'll need stitches for that one. Seems that the game is going to also have that mostly physical focus as well.

**Grieg** · 05-04-2008, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Gambit7

The "holy trinity" style healing model wasnt in the devs plans for this game.

Thats fine by me. I like the concept of it. But in reality, they suffer a lack of dps as a result of being able to heal. There is a balance which should be there between the two (dps and healing), and I felt they didn't give enough of one or the other, thereby gimping the class.

My only experience to draw on is the lvl 20 models they gave us though. I know things will be different, and with all MMOs that release, futher class balancing and gear tweaking will go on for a good year or more before its all good to go.

**Grieg** · 05-04-2008, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

Go up against a disc priest with full resilience and a good team, and you might change your tune. :P I've lost more than one match because we couldn't get the priest below 80% health no matter what we did, and my group's gear did not suck.

Funny, I get kicked / bashed / stunned / silenced / etc... and its all over. And having to respec to a more suitable healing build for raids is an incredible pain. I have a feeling this is a topic for a different forum though.

**SmokingTarpan** · 05-04-2008, 12:18 PM

By the way guys, how's the game music? Most people generally turn off the in-game music (sometimes I do too), but I really like it when an MMO has wonderfully composed, fitting music. Just curious if you guys have heard any in the demo, and what your opinion is.

**TheFatKidDeath** · 05-04-2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

By the way guys, how's the game music? Most people generally turn off the in-game music (sometimes I do too), but I really like it when an MMO has wonderfully composed, fitting music. Just curious if you guys have heard any in the demo, and what your opinion is.

Music is excellent and mood setting. They have different scores depending on your environment. Besides the music the sound effects are top notch, you can hear bugs flying around, lava flow, swings of weapons, etc.

**IronRhino73** · 05-04-2008, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Soulja

Gameplay wise, pretty fun, my assassin was rippin' up dudes with his Swift Strikes, and doing hardcore quick damage, and my Herold of Xtoli was pretty vicious, chaning into a demon and destroying everything.

But... I was having very bad lag issues when it came to the Totage gate. before that gate, everything was fine, my computer ran decent to good with no crashes, but then when i passed that gate, boom, massive lag everytime i moved 5 or more feet. being frozen for up to 2 minutes straight... it's probably because of my computer, but alot of people were complaining about it, and they were saying they had good computers... but who knows.

its not your computer. i run a beast with 2 8800gt 512s and an 8mb connection.

i used 3d ripper and was astonished how badly the town/city of Totage was created. i don't think its optimized. also when i went into the first tavern that i was suppose to go into. guard at gate wanted me to deliver a note it bogged down so bad and rendered each npc and player there one at a time. i finally crashed. hell i didn't even know what to write in the box to indicate what caused the crash. just where and when.

its fun but its no beta.

lets hope this doesn't go retail like Frontlines did and we beta it at retail.

**UnDeaD** · 05-04-2008, 05:55 PM

It's got to be the debug mode then.

**FrankManik** · 05-04-2008, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gambit7

If you think about it... if they made hardcore healers then they'd totally bork their combat engine. There would be no need to strat. your formations, defense, shielding, etc. You could just sit there and spam heal. So, in a way... it's a catch-22.

Also, remember... the 1st 20 levels are "tutorial mode" and dont represent the game at all really. The balance totally shifts later on, along with skills, combos, feats, etc.

I'm gonna second this. I have a feeling that healing classes are going to do most of their healing in rezzing troops after a skirmish and boosting peoples regeneration during lulls in the fighting.

**Zoopy** · 05-05-2008, 02:04 AM

I run the game fine on my PC. Only chugged twice: once in Tortage and once in Tortage Underhall.

Also the Bear Shaman is pretty good. Same with the other Priest archtypes. Their heals aren't suppose to instantly heal everyone instantly, they are meant to compensate a couple of hits.

**Meddler** · 05-05-2008, 11:25 AM

Hey Gents,

Been beta testing aoc since the fileplanet "open" beta and have been pleasantly surprised.

Outside of the expected lag and disco's, the game itself is beatiful - I like the combat so far. Quest lines have been interesting, I find I am actually reading and listening to the quest givers. I like the stories - well written and engaging.

One thing you may all want to check on is how badly your drive is fragmented. I have had quite a few crashes in AOC and it fragmented the hell out of the aoc files on my hard drive. A quick defrag and I was back up and running with very few issues.

I noticed that you all seem spread across servers - is there one server where people are gathered on? I got a few toons on server03 -but would be more than happy to move to a centralized server.

I look forward to catching up with you guys.

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