beep

Another aspect of the WoW game is that we don't impose any taxes on members. There are no guild structures to be built or maintained.

We do operate a guild bank with both money and items included. Voluntary member donations are enough so that we have a decent surplus. In-game items (material from disenchanting items, food, miscellaneous gear that might be usable) are either donated or result from undistributed (i.e. unwanted) gear from guild raids.

This "comfortable" financial setup is partly a result of our having a "mature" guild membership where most characters have reached the game's level cap some time ago. Contributing "extra" gold or gear to the guild is not a big deal for our members as much as it would be for a guild where everyone is leveling up together.

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TG WoW Characters
Beeper (Elemental Shaman)
Tootr (Resto Shaman)
AOC Characters in Ars Tactika (Cimmeria Server)
Aston (Tempest of Set)
Bheep (Conqueror)


Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

Tarenth

Yeah, but the difference between WoW and AoC is that AoC has the 'tax' system built in and its somewhat needed to maintain the upkeep of guild assets such as cities and battlekeeps. This is a small price to pay when you consider the fact that being in a guild will give you an increased resource, gold, and xp collection rate as well as improved mounts with a fully maintained city.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Gambit7

The guild tax is a necessary metagame that makes the entire experience a bit more in-depth. Let's not kid ourselves, WoW is RPG-lite... but it appeals to the masses. Funcom's vision is a bit broader in that they're really trying to get more hardcore elements back into online play. Whether it will backfire on them? we'll see.

And let's be honest here... the feeling(s) in the gaming market is one of "WoW-burnout." People are literally bucking their reigns, chomping at the bit for a viable WoW-replacement. AoC represents the 1st real shot at it.

FatKid, dont assume you'll have less a playerbase in AoC. Your playerbase will basically be as big as you feel to make it. Honestly, TG-WoW's playerbase could be a LOT bigger if we wanted it to be, but many times "discretion is the greater part of valor."

If you really examine the dynamics at play here, the TG community is actually more conducive to games like AoC or WAR as opposed to WoW. This has been said many times before and is an argument that still rages (I assume) within the TG-WoW community. You may in fact be presented with a situation where TG-AoC will be overflowed with people because of this.

I'd say the best way to approach it is take the best parts of how every guild from every TG-game is ran and combine them.

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Turbinator

Thank you, thats exactly what I was talking about in my posts on first page,

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Turbinator

Which brings me to my posts,concerns, on 1st page, and the whole PVP vs PVE focus for the guild.

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Banyan

I saw a video recently (CES?) where there was discussion about the "World PvP" areas. Plots of land suitable for building guild cities will be limited. In order for a TG guild to secure land for our own use (and subsequently defend it), we will not only need some sort of revenue stream (eg. tax) but will also need to maintain a minimum active membership.

Just a thought that crossed my mind...

Here a link to the video I mentioned, sorry if it's a repost: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29633.html (also briefly discusses pet classes)

Tarenth

World PvP here we were talking about that and there was some info posted on their forums about it that we digested and speculated some more about here.

You NEED a PvE basis of revenue to be successful in PvP unless you expect the bonus turnovers from the capturable objectives in the borderlands to cover your costs (here's a tip: they won't). We'll also need good relations with other guilds and groups in order to defend the one of nine capturable Battlekeeps when we take a stand in world PvP. Bad news? World PvP is based purely on numbers and organization. If you have more people on the ground than your opponent you will start acquiring tickets. On the down side, if your people are getting killed too much you will lose tickets for each death. However, as long as you still have more people than anyone else you will keep gaining and losing tickets while everyone else is stuck at 0.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Tarenth

World PvP here we were talking about that and there was some info posted on their forums about it that we digested and speculated some more about here.

You NEED a PvE basis of revenue to be successful in PvP unless you expect the bonus turnovers from the capturable objectives in the borderlands to cover your costs (here's a tip: they won't). We'll also need good relations with other guilds and groups in order to defend the one of nine capturable Battlekeeps when we take a stand in world PvP. Bad news? World PvP is based purely on numbers and organization. If you have more people on the ground than your opponent you will start acquiring tickets. On the down side, if your people are getting killed too much you will lose tickets for each death. However, as long as you still have more people than anyone else you will keep gaining and losing tickets while everyone else is stuck at 0.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Tarenth

We were talking about World PvP here and there was some info posted on their forums about it that we digested and speculated some more about here.

You NEED a PvE basis of revenue to be successful in PvP unless you expect the bonus turnovers from the capturable objectives in the borderlands to cover your costs (here's a tip: they won't). We'll also need good relations with other guilds and groups in order to defend the one of nine capturable Battlekeeps when we take a stand in world PvP. Bad news? World PvP is based purely on numbers and organization. If you have more people on the ground than your opponent you will start acquiring tickets. On the down side, if your people are getting killed too much you will lose tickets for each death. However, as long as you still have more people than anyone else you will keep gaining and losing tickets while everyone else is stuck at 0.

__________________
My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

daithi1

I may be a noob to MMOs but I still can't find a problem. People PvE or PvP in their own time making their own money (which will be taxed). If a group of PvPers want glory for TG they take one of the forts/resource nodes, fine. While PvPers kill other PvPers PvEers make money for guild, do quests, do dungeons, defend the TG city (not battlekeep).

When battlekeep defence/attack comes around TGers of the PvP and PvE variety gather and do their job. As BKs seem to be a big part of the game (therefore lots of mulah) I think it would be necessary to draft the PvEers. At which time we gain victory (defeat is not an option ) PvPers go pick fights PvEers go back to our city. Vise Versa if our city needs defending the PvPers need to come home and help.

In the beginning this problem wont come up much as PvPers will have to PvE to get to 80 (if it's like WoW). After that I don't see why PvP and PvE can't co-exist happily helping each-other when needed.

I'm sorry if I've misinterpreted what this thread is about...

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Tarenth

Sweet lord. Multiposts! Note to self: Never try posting when the TG forum database seems to be down and throwing back errors.

Sorry.

PvP and PvE can obviously exsist together, but its also important to have a base of operations to get a strong start before spreading ourselves across too many areas. If only the PvPers were to PvP then they would find failure in attempts to capture a battlekeep because it takes a lot of people on the ground to accomplish such a feat due to the ticket system. If only the PvE people were to work on the city and resource collection then benefits to the guild would be stunted as PvP acted as a constant drain on materials that could be used for guild wide improvements. Likewise, if only PvE people defended the city during raids then its possible the city could get razed negating guild wide benefits.

No one is saying not to PvP. I'm just suggesting a focus be on building up a solid PvE base before throwing our hat into the PvP arena wholeheartedly. There are only 9 Battlekeeps on each server so holding one would be a massive achievement. However it would be like building a city with a timer and require a LOT of PvE resources for PvP that can take place once every 3-7 days depending on the guild leader.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

TheFatKidDeath

What is the exact concept behind PVP in an MMO? I know what the term stands for but how is it actually handled?

-You enter a PVP zone
-You walk around looking for players to fight?
-Can two players fight one player?
-Group fighting?

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|TG-9th| TheFatKidDeath
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Tarenth

You mean the driving notion behing PvP in MMORPGs in general or how PvP is run in AoC specifically?

PvP in general could be considered the biggest 'e-peen' contest ever. You prove to others your character is superior in skill and gear by beating other players. It's a 'who's better' measure that surpasses the PvE side of exploring and seeing new content because its easily determined by a win or lose end result.

PvP in AoC will be done primarily three ways currently discussed on their site.

1) Duels - These will be held in taverns in the form of drunken brawls. When you drink enough you can start PvPing while drunk with assorted penalties, bonuses, and techniques.

2) Arena Matches - WoW Battlegrounds with an AoC twist. These are sponsored matches in instanced areas between relatively equal teams and involve games like capture the flag, area conquest/defense, and possibly a mix of the two. If you play WoW then this would be very similar to Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, and Eye of the Storm battlegrounds. There might even be a team deathmatch still event similar to WoW arena combat.

3) Large Scale Seige PvP - The most highly anticipated PvP sector is the one that involves mass melees in the borderlands between guilds for control of select resources. With 9 battlekeeps, 12 forts, and 18 resource nodes per server with 3/4/6 in each of the three areas, they will be highly contested points in the borderlands with combat being done in a 'per ticket minus death' system. If you break it down, its the WoW Tower combat system with a few twists. Basically the guild that fields the most players around the objective will start to get tickets for their guild, however with each death they experience that ticket count will go down by 1. There is a strong emphasis on zerg tactics, with an appropriate penalty for the death of guild mates. You can also artificially expand your guild roster and presence by hiring nonguilded players as mercenaries.

Each objective has a 'vulnerability' period and an 'invulnerability' period. When an objective is vulnerable it can be captured with tickets by anyone in a guild. Once the vulnerability period is over the winner recieves the objective and can set the length of the invulnerability period. After the invulnerability period is over the bonuses for holding the objective are awarded and vulnerability starts over again. A guild may only hold 1 battlekeep, but it can capture as many forts and resource nodes as they can handle.


It was never really explained if borderland PvP is FFA combat as well because there doesn't really seem to be a point. You gain PvP XP through the three processes mentioned above and can gain 20 PvP levels independent of the 80 character levels. the bonuses for these levels have been hinted at, but never explained either. Its questionable if randomly killing someone you meet will net you PvP XP at all because its basically meaningless.

If you're turned off by the WoW references then you probably should understand that PvP in AoC has, or will have, a very strong WoW influence. Everything mentioned in AoC has been done in WoW as well before with slight differences.

Its not mentioned (or I've missed/forgotten about it) if their PvP will have any scaling in the arena/brawl system (FFA seige battle being FFA) but PvP combat is started around level 40 upwards to level 80.

__________________
My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Humvee

My input on your topics. Keep in mind i havn't read the past 2-3 pages. And i'm not too familiar with TG.

-What does it take to run a well organized guild?
+ Mature members who are well commited. period. Casual or Hardcore doesn't matter. Some of the more casual players are some of the more mature and commited.

-Do we focus on raids? PVP? Citie maintenance? Sieges?
+ Focus on leveling up first then city maintenance and sieges. Ultimately PVP. I think every aspect of Conan was built around PVP. So leaning towards that way in the long run would be a great idea.

-Are there guild leaders? Rank and file?
+ Leaders and rank would keep order, but if you have mature commited members none of that is needed. Maybe a Leader and a couple officers to keep everything in line.

-Do we want to form up with an exisitng guild?
+ I like TG's outlook. Other guilds may not have the same outlook. But hey, if you find a guild that fits us...

-Or do we want a guild? Perhaps we may just find it better to be a loose collection of players that want to enjoy the game on a casual bases?
+ Having a guild that is open to the casual gamer is great plus. One thing i didn't like about majority of the WoW guilds is they only accepted lvl 70's. If there is no member cap then accepting all eligible mature members is a plus. You may find a casual level 20 who turns into a godly level lvl 80. Point being - the guild can be comprised of casual and hardcore gamers focused on casual gameplay. Not all hardcore players like to get into the daily raids and pvp runs. Myself would enjoy taking things a little slower even though i'll be playing nearly every day. My goal in any MMO is to level up and then help others out.

Grieg

Here is my take on it. Keep in mind, I'm not a in a TG leadership role, but I think TG could do amazing things in this game. Anyway...

-What does it take to run a well organized guild?
Organization, social skills, the ability to take input, and make hard decisions. Those are the obvious ones. The subtle skills needed in guild leaders is the ability to motivate and keep its members actively participating in the guild. Having guild goals, objectives, whatever you want to call it, can be critical. In other words, have a plan. What server will we be on? How can we be one of the first to create a player city, in the best spot? How can we grow the city? How do we upgrade character's equipment, on a guild-wide level? PVE raiding, PVP events, and all that kind of stuff.

-Do we focus on raids? PVP? Citie maintenance? Sieges?
Yes. You focus on all of it. They're all equally important, and to ignore one is to limit the guild's advancement.

-Are there guild leaders? Rank and file?
I don't see how there can't be. At the same time, it can't be management heavy.

-Do we want to form up with an existing guild?
No. I would want the TG guild to be so damn good that existing guilds come to us for alliances. It takes networking, PUGS, and social skills. It doesn't matter how "133t" you are if your guild is perceived as a bunch of rat bastards.

-Or do we want a guild? Perhaps we may just find it better to be a loose collection of players that want to enjoy the game on a casual bases?
It is ok to be a "loose collection of players", but honestly, a group of individuals will never get as far, or experience as much, as a solid and unified team will. There is no I in team, if you will.

The community and society in the guild will be what we make it. If working as a team, working for the betterment of the guild, and improvement of guild members is focused on and rewarded, I think you'll find like minded people flock to that. If done early, and kept up, it will form the foundation for a fun community which can also accomplish many a great thing.

At the same time, the guild also needs to recognize that playing the game "solo" is also acceptable - it is a game, after all. You're also not paying my monthly subscription, so there is very little right for a guild to mandate certain play requirements. The rewards mentioned above need set for those who improve the guild and its members, not the lone wolves who just want the benefits of a guild tag without putting anything into it. For example (and pardon me if this rubs anyone the wrong way): How many people on a TG CoD / Battlefield server put TG tags on with the intent of giving back to the TG community? Probably not the majority, at least initially. Its more about belonging, and the "what do I get out of it" factor, or perhaps they just want to play with a friend or two who is in TG. (Thats not a bad thing, per se, as we value like-minded individuals in this community. ) But if they see early on this type of play is rewarded or even expected, more and more of them will chip in.

Now, I've seen some really hard core raiding guilds in other MMOs. EQ, WoW, Lineage2, City of Heroes, etc. Guilds that required 20 to 30 hours a week raiding attendance, donation of materials, and other strict requirements. Failure to meet the requirements actually had penalties. That would be taking things way too far for my liking, and I'd never suggest TG do that. There is a middle road in there somewhere, and that is what the leadership needs to be able to do: Guide us down that middle road, rewarding active team members, keeping the guild progressing in all aspects of the game, and constantly selling itself (for lack of a better term) to outside players.


Just my 2 cents.

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