Age of Conan guild discussion - need input from some veterans of MMO's. - Page 4

SmokingTarpan · 03-26-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grieg

Now, I've seen some really hard core raiding guilds in other MMOs. EQ, WoW, Lineage2, City of Heroes, etc. Guilds that required 20 to 30 hours a week raiding attendance, donation of materials, and other strict requirements. Failure to meet the requirements actually had penalties. That would be taking things way too far for my liking, and I'd never suggest TG do that.

One thing that I'm going to caution is that there will have to be rules and "penalties" once the guild gets into the real raiding/pvp content. One big misconception that's out there is that there exists this thing called "casual raiding". It really doesn't exist; you're either a hardcore raider or you're everyone else (note: this is not a bad thing).

Here's the key thing: Hardcore does not mean raiding 24/7, every waking moment that's spent in the game devoting yourself to the progression of the guild. Hardcore means you work on excelling at your class and the encounters you face, put together a proper build and set of gear for your goal, spend time learning from other good players and do some extra learning when necessary. You can be a hardcore raider and only raid 2-3 nights per week, for 2-3 hours at a time.

I mention this because I've personally seen several guilds in WoW break because the players don't understand this concept, and the leadership is unwilling or slow to deal with the issue. The last two guild breaks I've witnessed personally happened because the leadership didn't want to be "mean" to the players who thought they had a right to join high-level raids the very second they hit max level (ie not geared at all), without ever following raid leader directions, and basically doing nothing more than showing up on time (sometimes not even that). There are a surprising amount of people that think anything more than showing up on raid night and hanging out in the instance, maybe getting something done but if not who cares is "too serious". There are also a lot of people who think getting constructive criticism ("I've noticed you were doing X on this fight. Why don't you try Y instead and see how it goes, it's what I do") is mean and too demanding.

The main point here is that once the guild gets to the point that there will be concentrated efforts at progression (either PvE or PvP), there will have to be baseline standards of performance. Failure to understand this and deal appropriately with the problems that come up will eventually break the guild, guaranteed.

A corollary side note is that the loot policy (ie how drops from raid bosses, or pvp captures if they exist, gets distrubuted) needs to be set up well in advance. It will also need to have a lot of transparency, as someone else mentioned with regard to general guild workings.

**FrankManik** · 04-01-2008, 04:09 AM

I've been reading over some of these posts and they're making me feel like an old man. The first MMO I played was Ultima Online, back in '98. I participated in the Stratics Spiels and Rants guild on Siege Perilous, where all skills took five times as long to gain, you lost skill permanently with every death, your whole inventory stayed on your corpse and was lootable, and PvP was totally unregulated with the exception of a few small PvP limited zones. Things that are unimaginable in MMOs these days, like stealing items from players, looting of anything and everything that players are carrying, mounted combat, and raiding and stealing player housing were commonplace, everyday occurrences. Now, bitter old veteran ranting aside, here is what I feel makes a good guild.

Separation of church and state. It helps to have separate leaders for separate tasks. The EVE Alliance I operated with had separate leaders for combat operations, economic operations, manufacturing, diplomacy, and intra-alliance arbitration.

Play the game.

One thing I hate about all Everquest model games, including WoW and it's nefarious ilk, is that they are basically a second job. You don't play the game, you work at the game. I don't know how AoCs advancement model is structured, but WoW raids aren't fun, unpredictable explorations of an exciting and dangerous dungeon, they're work. Rigorously formulated, carefully planned out work, with nothing left to chance or imagination.

Realm V Realm Combat in DAOC was a hell of a lot more fun because it incorporated manuever, ambush, the use of camouflage and infiltration tactics, the need for maintaining supply lines, coordination between widely ranging groups of fighters, coordination within individual squads. It was a huge, active, random, exciting war, not the carefully scripted hand holding of a WoW server.

PvP in UO was pure chaos, utterly without constraint. Bands of PKs and Bandits dueled with Anti-PKs in wide ranging skirmishes, and you could only hold ground for as long as you had men to stand there and hold the line. There was no outside framework of any kind. Either the players initiated defensive and offensive actions, or the PKs had total free rain to hunt down isolated players and rob and murder them as they saw fit.

Personally, I prefer the DAOC and UO models. Instead of the planned to the nines, carefully balanced raid groups of WoW, I'd rather see groups of PvP fighters set up as semi-self sufficient military units, called up at intervals for coordinated actions, given a set of goals and objectives and then given a bit of leeway to accomplish them. TG has almost miraculous coordination compared to the average pubbie, and that can be used to a great advantage in PvP, especially as AoC claims to have some features that will balance out level discrepencies.

I'm having trouble keeping this from turning into a massive anti-Wow rant. I'll sum up by saying I'd like to see the guild formed with a military and civil component, with a primary emphasis on military activity. PvE is dull. PvP is exhilarating. I'd rather be out smashing stygian skulls and taking their stuff than fighting yet another predictable AI monster for the 100,000th time.

PS - Oh, how I long for the days when killing other people and taking their stuff was a viable alternative to PvE. Mining and farming mobs is for chumps. looting and brigandage is where it's at.

**Gambit7** · 04-01-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankManik

I've been reading over some of these posts and they're making me feel like an old man. The first MMO I played was Ultima Online, back in '98. I participated in the Stratics Spiels and Rants guild on Siege Perilous, where all skills took five times as long to gain, you lost skill permanently with every death, your whole inventory stayed on your corpse and was lootable, and PvP was totally unregulated with the exception of a few small PvP limited zones. Things that are unimaginable in MMOs these days, like stealing items from players, looting of anything and everything that players are carrying, mounted combat, and raiding and stealing player housing were commonplace, everyday occurrences. Now, bitter old veteran ranting aside, here is what I feel makes a good guild.

Separation of church and state. It helps to have separate leaders for separate tasks. The EVE Alliance I operated with had separate leaders for combat operations, economic operations, manufacturing, diplomacy, and intra-alliance arbitration.

Play the game.

One thing I hate about all Everquest model games, including WoW and it's nefarious ilk, is that they are basically a second job. You don't play the game, you work at the game. I don't know how AoCs advancement model is structured, but WoW raids aren't fun, unpredictable explorations of an exciting and dangerous dungeon, they're work. Rigorously formulated, carefully planned out work, with nothing left to chance or imagination.

Realm V Realm Combat in DAOC was a hell of a lot more fun because it incorporated manuever, ambush, the use of camouflage and infiltration tactics, the need for maintaining supply lines, coordination between widely ranging groups of fighters, coordination within individual squads. It was a huge, active, random, exciting war, not the carefully scripted hand holding of a WoW server.

PvP in UO was pure chaos, utterly without constraint. Bands of PKs and Bandits dueled with Anti-PKs in wide ranging skirmishes, and you could only hold ground for as long as you had men to stand there and hold the line. There was no outside framework of any kind. Either the players initiated defensive and offensive actions, or the PKs had total free rain to hunt down isolated players and rob and murder them as they saw fit.

Personally, I prefer the DAOC and UO models. Instead of the planned to the nines, carefully balanced raid groups of WoW, I'd rather see groups of PvP fighters set up as semi-self sufficient military units, called up at intervals for coordinated actions, given a set of goals and objectives and then given a bit of leeway to accomplish them. TG has almost miraculous coordination compared to the average pubbie, and that can be used to a great advantage in PvP, especially as AoC claims to have some features that will balance out level discrepencies.

I'm having trouble keeping this from turning into a massive anti-Wow rant. I'll sum up by saying I'd like to see the guild formed with a military and civil component, with a primary emphasis on military activity. PvE is dull. PvP is exhilarating. I'd rather be out smashing stygian skulls and taking their stuff than fighting yet another predictable AI monster for the 100,000th time.

PS - Oh, how I long for the days when killing other people and taking their stuff was a viable alternative to PvE. Mining and farming mobs is for chumps. looting and brigandage is where it's at.

Helluva good post. You made a lot of points I'd have liked to. The problem with your argument though is that there's this little thing called "Game Design" that tends to get in the way of good PvP. Let's face it, most people dont want a PvP game unless it's shoved down their throats and/or the design is so flawless that they dont mind the excess pain.

The reason why UO and DAOC were successful is because their models were pretty much forced on their users (i.e. they're old games). The MMO world became "muddy" once people were given a choice which game and which server to play. Most "casual" players didnt want to get ganked every 2 minutes, so most moved to PvE-oriented games.

I'm with you though, a well-designed completely PvP game is very appealing. Especially where TG is concerned.

**TheFatKidDeath** · 04-01-2008, 05:29 PM

I'd like to quickly emphasize an important point that FrankManik brought up and one I've been saying from the start on these forums: the game should not feel like a job. No one wants to play a job. I plan on taking the game seriously and take the time to make our Guild a success but not to the point of taking on a second occupation. Hopefully everyone feels the same. We all have lives outside which will take precedent over maintaining our city or battlekeep and preventing us from participating in a siege or raid. Basically we all (maybe not me

) have lives outside the game so that should be priority first and foremost.

From reading each post it's easy to see that we have a variety of place styles and preference for server types. Some players live PvE (myself included) others PvP and most a mixture a both. Obviously we haven't seem all the details yet from Funcom on the specifics so in the coming weeks will be getting more information.

**daithi1** · 04-02-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFatKidDeath

From reading each post it's easy to see that we have a variety of place styles and preference for server types. Some players live PvE (myself included) others PvP and most a mixture a both. Obviously we haven't seem all the details yet from Funcom on the specifics so in the coming weeks will be getting more information.

I'm hoping there is an open Beta preceding launch so everyone can make a better decision as whether they want a PvP server or PvE. I personally don't have too much MMO experience and atm the moment have no opinion.

**Gambit7** · 04-02-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daithi1

I'm hoping there is an open Beta preceding launch so everyone can make a better decision as whether they want a PvP server or PvE. I personally don't have too much MMO experience and atm the moment have no opinion.

There will be an open beta, but only "x" amount of slots. So not everyone gets in. Nevertheless, most of the game design is available for you to make judgement on (especially since Friday's PvP update). The issues everyone wants a beta for are the "feel" of the game - which in reality is the most important thing. What are the pvp risk/rewards? How much does twitch matter in combat? How much of a headache is crafting? etc. etc.

None of this will be known until beta. Which since release is in 1.5 months, I'd expect it to happen pretty damned soon.

My suggestion to most people is to start with a toon on a PvP server (in beta) and see what it's like. If the system is unfinished, borked, or just "feels" wrong then obviously PvE may be the way to go.

Ultimately though, for that proper Conan experience you'd need a PvP server IMO.

**teamjawbox** · 05-03-2008, 04:57 PM

heya folks. i've got a pretty hardcore history in mmo's. it was only in the last two years i started venturing into FPS games. i was pretty big into EQ, then went to SWG, then i discovered WoW. my main was a resto druid and i was healing channel leader in a hardcore raiding guid for 3 years. actually, out of my 3 yrs in WoW, i have over 1 year logged play time. about 5 months ago i basically gave up on WoW completely and moved to Guild Wars due to the direction the game has gone since The Burning Crusade. I am currently in the AoC open beta as I really wanted to test this game out to see if it was something id be interested in. im really awaiting the release of warhammer: age of reckoning but AoC is coming first so im gonna give it a go. i really hope it turns out to be faster paced than WoW and more like Guild Wars in the mission and dungeon since. and so far the pvp seems really cool. much better than the after thought pvp in WoW. If you all need me once the game is released please let me know. i'm very dedicated and well disciplined when it comes to my MMO lifestyle : P even my wife started raiding with me in WoW so we could hang out in-game!! thanks you all, really enjoyed the previous posts. really hit home with my views as well. cya's!

**FrankManik** · 05-05-2008, 09:09 PM

In response to the Hardcore Vs. Casual issue, I'd like to offer the following compromise. I have a friend who plays WoW, and her Guild consists of two allied Guilds, one that is heavily structured and geared towards competitive raiding, and a much more casual guild for players who either do not have the time or the inclination to play at the level required for competitive raiding. This allows a place for both kinds of players and maintains a larger group of similarly minded players than would otherwise be feasible.

SmokingTarpan · 05-05-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankManik

In response to the Hardcore Vs. Casual issue, I'd like to offer the following compromise. I have a friend who plays WoW, and her Guild consists of two allied Guilds, one that is heavily structured and geared towards competitive raiding, and a much more casual guild for players who either do not have the time or the inclination to play at the level required for competitive raiding. This allows a place for both kinds of players and maintains a larger group of similarly minded players than would otherwise be feasible.

The main reason I spoke about Hardcore vs. Not is because there are a lot of people who don't understand the mindset. I've never had a problem with non-raiding players hanging out in a raiding guild; heck, I'm doing it right now in WoW as I've retired from raiding but am still in that guild just to chit chat. People just have to know that if they intend to raid (or alternatively for AoC, be heavy into organized PvP) they will need to adhere toward certain standards and rules (as set by the leadership).

**Grieg** · 05-06-2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

The main reason I spoke about Hardcore vs. Not is because there are a lot of people who don't understand the mindset. I've never had a problem with non-raiding players hanging out in a raiding guild; heck, I'm doing it right now in WoW as I've retired from raiding but am still in that guild just to chit chat. People just have to know that if they intend to raid (or alternatively for AoC, be heavy into organized PvP) they will need to adhere toward certain standards and rules (as set by the leadership).

If the guild is organized around the hardcore, that is fine. If you're creating a guild which is going to offer itself to a wider range of players, those rules become excessive, heavy handed, and generally lead to a dichotomy in the membership: Those who are hardcore, and those who are perceived to be along for the ride. I'd caution against trying to set TG up as a "hardcore" anything; it just doesn't seem to fit what TG is.

SmokingTarpan · 05-06-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grieg

I'd caution against trying to set TG up as a "hardcore" anything; it just doesn't seem to fit what TG is.

Well, I'll refer you to my earlier definition of Hardcore:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST

Here's the key thing: Hardcore does not mean raiding 24/7, every waking moment that's spent in the game devoting yourself to the progression of the guild. Hardcore means you work on excelling at your class and the encounters you face, put together a proper build and set of gear for your goal, spend time learning from other good players and do some extra learning when necessary. You can be a hardcore raider and only raid 2-3 nights per week, for 2-3 hours at a time.

To put it in terms more familiar with TG, think of it as teamplay vs. lone wolfing. In order to raid (henceforth "raid" will also take organized PvP into account in AoC) a player will need to do certain things. Show up on time, have the appropriate potions/items/etc ready, know what the dungeon/boss strats are, listen to directions from the raid leaders and so forth. You can do all these things and still only raid one night per week; it's all about being serious from Go Time until End Raid. That's what being hardcore is, and why the notion of "casual raiding" is a false one. Casual means you're just sorta there, hanging out and not really caring what you do or what the end result is so long as you have some fun during your time. This is perfectly fine, and frankly is the backbone of any MMO- but it doesn't mesh with raiding whatsoever.

To give an example from my guild in WoW. We had several people that, during raids, were not interested in following directions whatsoever. It became so bad that we could spend 1.5 of our 3 raid night hours wiping to the first boss in the dungeon- a boss that was on "farm" status (ie: we should be able to kill this guy in our sleep). No matter how many times we told these people not to do one thing or another, they continued doing them and wasting the time of the other raid members. When we finally told them they couldn't raid until they shaped up, they and many of their friends left the guild because we were "too serious". They said the wanted to raid, but didn't even want to put in the minimal effort such as following directions from the raid leader. Essentially, they wanted to lone wolf.

It's this sort of thing that we need to avoid as the guild progresses into endgame raiding and the big organized PvP battles. It's not, "if you join the TG guild you WILL raid/PvP and you will like it!" but rather, "if you join the TG guild and desire to raid/PvP, you will need to follow certain rules for the welfare of the team". What those rules are, the leadership will decide.

The reason I mention this well in advance of the game even being out is because the sooner we get our ducks in a row, the more solid the guild will be. The most detrimental thing that you can do to your guild is to start raiding/PvP and then try to come up with rules and requirements several weeks in.

**AdeptAbyss** · 05-10-2008, 06:11 PM

Just wondering who gonna be the guild master? someone needs to be.

**Grieg** · 05-11-2008, 02:26 AM

I had assumed it was going to be TheFatKidDeath

**TheFatKidDeath** · 05-11-2008, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdeptAbyss

Just wondering who gonna be the guild master? someone needs to be.

Suppose it's me by default as I've been posting about the game forever

I will of course step up and take command of the day to day. Mind you I've never led a Guild before so I'll need input. This is going to be a player run Guild and everyone will contribute.

**Gambit7** · 05-11-2008, 01:42 PM

Well, there will of course have to be officers (it's built into the UI) and you'll have to lean on em quite a bit... especially at the beginning of the game and especially where recruitment is concerned.

As for this hardcore/softcore argument... to me, there really is no argument since there's no reason we cant offer and maintain it all. TG is largely a conglomeration of different types of folk all with some order teamplay values, but maybe slightly different playstyles and interests. This will show up even in MMOs. Some will PvP, some will raid, some love to just quest with buddies. MANY will bounce between all these things, ready to participate in any avenue.

What you dont wanna do is pigeonhole the guild into one playstyle... that's epic fail all the way. BUT, with everything TG... each playstyle should hold up the usual core values - that's organized teamplay and fun. Lonewolfing in MMOs always happens, but moreso with just people who like to quest alone and/or are selfish with their resources. These types of people usually get weeded out to begin with, because if they wanted to lone-wolf they wouldnt be in the guild in the first place.

You will have types that dont like to group much, which is fine. Many of these folks are VERY accomplished gamers (i can name a bunch of great WoW players that werent group-oriented) and their contributions to the guild can be great, even w/o true teamplay. There's a difference between MMO-teamplay and grouping. In an MMO you can have folks that spend all their time alone, gathering resources, or perhaps PvP tickets for the guild and imparting good advice onto initiates. They may rarely, if ever, group with anyone. DONT ostracize these people just because they dont group. In a way, they ARE following the Teamplay credo... but doing it in a larger guild sense, not in a squad/raid-size sense.

It's the folks that do the above selfishly that you dont want.

I remember a girl in TG-WoW who was a MASTER at enchantments and gathering the resources to do-so. She spent most of her time doing this and sporadically pvp-ing. Occasionally, she'd catch flak from other players for not "participating" in the guild... when in fact she contributed a helluva lot to folks wanting enchantments, money, or pvp help. This is something you've gotta learn to avoid in any guild (harping on folk for not playing the way you want.)

Moral of the st

04-01-2008, 04:09 AM	#47 (permalink)
FrankManik Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 137	Re: Age of Conan guild discussion - need input from some veterans of MMO's. I've been reading over some of these posts and they're making me feel like an old man. The first MMO I played was Ultima Online, back in '98. I participated in the Stratics Spiels and Rants guild on Siege Perilous, where all skills took five times as long to gain, you lost skill permanently with every death, your whole inventory stayed on your corpse and was lootable, and PvP was totally unregulated with the exception of a few small PvP limited zones. Things that are unimaginable in MMOs these days, like stealing items from players, looting of anything and everything that players are carrying, mounted combat, and raiding and stealing player housing were commonplace, everyday occurrences. Now, bitter old veteran ranting aside, here is what I feel makes a good guild. Separation of church and state. It helps to have separate leaders for separate tasks. The EVE Alliance I operated with had separate leaders for combat operations, economic operations, manufacturing, diplomacy, and intra-alliance arbitration. Play the game. One thing I hate about all Everquest model games, including WoW and it's nefarious ilk, is that they are basically a second job. You don't play the game, you work at the game. I don't know how AoCs advancement model is structured, but WoW raids aren't fun, unpredictable explorations of an exciting and dangerous dungeon, they're work. Rigorously formulated, carefully planned out work, with nothing left to chance or imagination. Realm V Realm Combat in DAOC was a hell of a lot more fun because it incorporated manuever, ambush, the use of camouflage and infiltration tactics, the need for maintaining supply lines, coordination between widely ranging groups of fighters, coordination within individual squads. It was a huge, active, random, exciting war, not the carefully scripted hand holding of a WoW server. PvP in UO was pure chaos, utterly without constraint. Bands of PKs and Bandits dueled with Anti-PKs in wide ranging skirmishes, and you could only hold ground for as long as you had men to stand there and hold the line. There was no outside framework of any kind. Either the players initiated defensive and offensive actions, or the PKs had total free rain to hunt down isolated players and rob and murder them as they saw fit. Personally, I prefer the DAOC and UO models. Instead of the planned to the nines, carefully balanced raid groups of WoW, I'd rather see groups of PvP fighters set up as semi-self sufficient military units, called up at intervals for coordinated actions, given a set of goals and objectives and then given a bit of leeway to accomplish them. TG has almost miraculous coordination compared to the average pubbie, and that can be used to a great advantage in PvP, especially as AoC claims to have some features that will balance out level discrepencies. I'm having trouble keeping this from turning into a massive anti-Wow rant. I'll sum up by saying I'd like to see the guild formed with a military and civil component, with a primary emphasis on military activity. PvE is dull. PvP is exhilarating. I'd rather be out smashing stygian skulls and taking their stuff than fighting yet another predictable AI monster for the 100,000th time. PS - Oh, how I long for the days when killing other people and taking their stuff was a viable alternative to PvE. Mining and farming mobs is for chumps. looting and brigandage is where it's at.

04-01-2008, 05:29 PM	#49 (permalink)
TheFatKidDeath Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Santa Monica, CA Age: 39 Posts: 2,464	Re: Age of Conan guild discussion - need input from some veterans of MMO's. I'd like to quickly emphasize an important point that FrankManik brought up and one I've been saying from the start on these forums: the game should not feel like a job. No one wants to play a job. I plan on taking the game seriously and take the time to make our Guild a success but not to the point of taking on a second occupation. Hopefully everyone feels the same. We all have lives outside which will take precedent over maintaining our city or battlekeep and preventing us from participating in a siege or raid. Basically we all (maybe not me ) have lives outside the game so that should be priority first and foremost. From reading each post it's easy to see that we have a variety of place styles and preference for server types. Some players live PvE (myself included) others PvP and most a mixture a both. Obviously we haven't seem all the details yet from Funcom on the specifics so in the coming weeks will be getting more information. __________________ \|TG-9th\| TheFatKidDeath "Born to Party, Forced to Work." http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55640 - Check me out on The Onion http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...ssfully_avoids - I'm on the local news!

05-03-2008, 04:57 PM	#52 (permalink)
teamjawbox Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: LEX, KY - USA Age: 28 Posts: 35	Re: Age of Conan guild discussion - need input from some veterans of MMO's. heya folks. i've got a pretty hardcore history in mmo's. it was only in the last two years i started venturing into FPS games. i was pretty big into EQ, then went to SWG, then i discovered WoW. my main was a resto druid and i was healing channel leader in a hardcore raiding guid for 3 years. actually, out of my 3 yrs in WoW, i have over 1 year logged play time. about 5 months ago i basically gave up on WoW completely and moved to Guild Wars due to the direction the game has gone since The Burning Crusade. I am currently in the AoC open beta as I really wanted to test this game out to see if it was something id be interested in. im really awaiting the release of warhammer: age of reckoning but AoC is coming first so im gonna give it a go. i really hope it turns out to be faster paced than WoW and more like Guild Wars in the mission and dungeon since. and so far the pvp seems really cool. much better than the after thought pvp in WoW. If you all need me once the game is released please let me know. i'm very dedicated and well disciplined when it comes to my MMO lifestyle : P even my wife started raiding with me in WoW so we could hang out in-game!! thanks you all, really enjoyed the previous posts. really hit home with my views as well. cya's! __________________ [TG-Irr] Jawbox :::::: www.LAGWAR.com "Christmas 2046, Are You Human or Machine?" Age of Conan: Gazbag (Guardian) @ Cimmeria -- Gadzban (Conqueror) @ Zug World of Warcraft: Zissou (70 NE Druid) Jawbox (70 Human Mage) Tubhead (70 Warlock) Nortel (65 Shaman)

05-05-2008, 09:09 PM	#53 (permalink)
FrankManik Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 137	Re: Age of Conan guild discussion - need input from some veterans of MMO's. In response to the Hardcore Vs. Casual issue, I'd like to offer the following compromise. I have a friend who plays WoW, and her Guild consists of two allied Guilds, one that is heavily structured and geared towards competitive raiding, and a much more casual guild for players who either do not have the time or the inclination to play at the level required for competitive raiding. This allows a place for both kinds of players and maintains a larger group of similarly minded players than would otherwise be feasible.

05-10-2008, 06:11 PM	#57 (permalink)
AdeptAbyss Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 240	Re: Age of Conan guild discussion - need input from some veterans of MMO's. Just wondering who gonna be the guild master? someone needs to be. __________________ \|TG-4th\|AdeptAbyss [2]1st\|LCpl.AdeptAbyss http://arma-tow.com/ M4A1, $1k. Armored Humvee, $150,000. M1A1, $4.3M. Watching as Delta blows up the guy you've been trying to capture Priceless

05-11-2008, 02:26 AM	#58 (permalink)
Grieg Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 378	Re: Age of Conan guild discussion - need input from some veterans of MMO's. I had assumed it was going to be TheFatKidDeath __________________ Govern well thy appetite, lest Sin surprise thee, and her black attendant: Death. ~ John Milton - Paradise Lost \| TG Primer \| Rules of Conduct \| Wearing the \|TG\| tag \| TG CoD4 Server Rules \|

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