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Discussion: America's Army / America's Army - General Discussion - Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming? - Originally Posted by magnum50 (in a different post) 6. nades and 203 clarification: we are
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    MeanDrLily's Avatar

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    Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Quote Originally Posted by magnum50 (in a different post)
    6. nades and 203 clarification: we are sticking to the current SOP on this one, which is no nade or 203 shooting within the first 15 seconds. Now lets not make this more difficult then it is. This rule is ONLY here to stop players from shooting 203's and throwing nades to known spawn areas. Use common scene! If you have enemy contact or are engaged in a battle then use the weapons.. Use Common Sense on this folks. and I know we can't stop this when the server is open, but hopefully that won't happen to often, and if it does hopefully an admin is on to warn then kick the player for repeat offense.
    Question: A common tactic on Weapons Cache SE is for Assault to hit the elvator shaft through the window with the 203. This is done within seconds of spawning, and there is no known enemy contact. But, it's not technically spawn spamming: the Defense player needs to run to that location.

    I'm not trying to challenge anything, nor make this difficult. I hope this doesn't turn into a lengthy discussion. Maybe an Admin/Game Officer could give a quick ruling?


    Thanks!

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    im guessing you are talking about last nights tactics....the thing with what we are trying to do is stun there hearing and make it so we can get up that ladder....if we get one we get one...but we need to remember they in the scrim will be doing the pixel hunting......turbo have you said anything to them about that
    that sounds like a good idea trooper.
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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeanDrLily
    Question: A common tactic on Weapons Cache SE is for Assault to hit the elvator shaft through the window with the 203. This is done within seconds of spawning, and there is no known enemy contact. But, it's not technically spawn spamming: the Defense player needs to run to that location.

    I'm not trying to challenge anything, nor make this difficult. I hope this doesn't turn into a lengthy discussion. Maybe an Admin/Game Officer could give a quick ruling?


    Thanks!
    I would consider it very similar to spawn spamming. You're bombarding a known path/location immediately after round start with the intent of getting easy/free kills as opposed to actually achieving them through any combat/tactical prowess.

    I'd leave the actual final determination up to Magnum, but that would be my opinion.

    Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Correct me if I am wrong, when the map starts the attacking force has to get out of their buiding, get to the docks then 203 the window. Is that more then enough time after the start of the game to start lobbing 203 rounds? I do not think that would be consider spawn spamming.

    Example: I rep Mateo for being let's say a good guy and at the same time six others do the same.


    TG_Mateo: "Forget freedom, democracy, the blues and New York Pizza: Our lasting contribution to human society is Bourbon."

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]
    im guessing you are talking about last nights tactics....the thing with what we are trying to do is stun there hearing and make it so we can get up that ladder....if we get one we get one...but we need to remember they in the scrim will be doing the pixel hunting......turbo have you said anything to them about that
    Yes, it did happen (to me!) last night. I know that was scrim practice. I'm wondering about on a 'regular' night.

    Thanks so far! I'll wait for Magnum's reply.

    A>>

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    I asked Magnum about this one when he first announced this rule. It's a toughie because it's kinda a form of suppressive fire as far as the assault team hiding their movements from the defense team. But, at the same time, you're firing right in to the defense team's spawn.

    I guess you can look at it this way.. You're assaulting that building and see that lone open window. You know that there are enemies defending your objective, but you're not sure where they are. You know that there aren't any civilians in the building (night time, they've all gone home). So, those factors combined, it seems reasonable that you would want to launch some explosives in to that window so that your team can move in.

    There aren't many places on the map where you have enough space to fire a 203 (at least compared to say Bridge Crossing). It'd almost seem like the designers intended for that window to be 203'd. The defense team can poke their heads out and try to get intel it if they want, even hide in the elevator shaft.. But they need to be weary of a 203 coming through the window and blowing them up. That's the conclusion my common sense brings me too. Shrug.

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    See Sloppy's post below. I was thinking about some other time.
    Last edited by Turbo; 12-01-2005 at 11:15 PM.

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    OK let's get some things very clear. The intent behind the rule is that the intention is to protect either team from getting nailed by 203 fire in spawn to spawn combat. Imagine being at spawn and 3 seconds into it a 203 round from no where lands at your feet. THAT is what is no go.

    203 "spam" in other conditions implies that you are firing 203's at nothing for the sake nothing except to luck out to get a kill.

    This clearly does not qualify in instances of team oriented cover fire. The 203, much like the SAW, is very useful for firing for effect to cover the team. (I guess another weapon write up will be coming shortly). Be it the window in Weapons Caches, or the roof/windows in Insurgent Camp, etc, 203 shells make for a very intimidating -do not step into that window- message. It also can impair hearing of anyone in the vicinity (unlike the SAW) which can be VERY important for teammates moving up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apophis
    You're bombarding a known path/location immediately after round start with the intent of getting easy/free kills as opposed to actually achieving them through any combat/tactical prowess.
    In this particular case in Weapons Cache, the assault team has to cover a lot of open ground between their building and the objective building. The window on the 3rd floor is a major threat. Popping 203 rounds up there while your team moves under it is very tactical for cover fire. Even if no defense is there, it is a big enough threat that an opfor can pop in that window throw out a cooked frag or 203 to devestate the incoming assault team.

    I think that If someone is unlucky enough to walk in the path of good, tactically placed 203 cover fire, tough noogies.

    Common sense here folks. There's a big difference between tactically correct 203 cover fire especially with teamwork in place versus Johnny Rambo running around shooting 203's at god knows what or spawn raping.

    Let's not beat the pulp out of a simple rule.
    .



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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Cool. Question answered: It's legal.

    Thanks!

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Sounds good to me!

    Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    As Sloppy said, there's no need to beat a dead horse here, and I know how knowledge of a map means success in this game, but think of it this way; if you had never played the map before would you be putting 203s up there?

    If the answer is no, then it really doesn't qualify as playing at near sim immersion. If the only reason you are laying cover there is because you have previous knowledge of that route then that is not TG style.

    Just my .02 and worth what you paid for it.

    edit:
    I played that map 5 or 10 times before I realized, hey there's a roof up there that they get to really quickly I better watch that next time. Now I bolt out the door to the right behind the trucks and cook one off for the defenders. Would better players than me who don't get killed early in every round be more observant and cover that area? Could be.
    Last edited by USN_Squid; 12-02-2005 at 04:02 AM.
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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Tonight we should point out danger areas when we go over the maps.

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    Re: Weapons Cache SE elevator 203s = spamming?

    Quote Originally Posted by USN_Squid
    As Sloppy said, there's no need to beat a dead horse here, and I know how knowledge of a map means success in this game, but think of it this way; if you had never played the map before would you be putting 203s up there?
    My answer would be yes. Assuming you are an aware grenadier: 1) You can see that the objectives are in that building by looking at your compass. 2) You can see a long flat stretch between your building and the objective building 3) You see a window high up overlooking said flat. 4) You have 7 shells to use.

    I would hope any one of you, in a sim situation as opposed to rambo-esque, would utilize 203 cover fire in this situation. The window overlooking the expansive flat should set of a blinking alarming red light in all assaulting players minds but especially in that of the grenadier. This is the ideal type of situation where the grenadier should be covering the advancing team.
    .



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