de_forest

**.tritone.** · 10-15-2007, 10:16 PM

I'm having mixed feelings about this one.

It's HUGE and extremely unforgiving.

If the T's have much sense at all they'll be in one pack which pretty much guarantees having about double the guns at whichever bomb site they plant at.

Once the bomb is planted the remaining CTs are completely screwed. There is simply no way for them to 'clear' the area to defuse.

Alternatively, the T's have to deal with walking through the forest with little to no idea where the CTs are posted up. If they're patient they can deal with that, though. Not much the CTs can do about having to guard two bombsites that are 30 seconds of running time apart.

**Assault9** · 10-15-2007, 11:35 PM

How's people's frame rates on this one?

**.tritone.** · 10-15-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assault9

How's people's frame rates on this one?

About 1/4 what it is everywhere else.

nhammen · 10-16-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .tritone.

I'm having mixed feelings about this one.

It's HUGE and extremely unforgiving.

If the T's have much sense at all they'll be in one pack which pretty much guarantees having about double the guns at whichever bomb site they plant at.

Once the bomb is planted the remaining CTs are completely screwed. There is simply no way for them to 'clear' the area to defuse.

Alternatively, the T's have to deal with walking through the forest with little to no idea where the CTs are posted up. If they're patient they can deal with that, though. Not much the CTs can do about having to guard two bombsites that are 30 seconds of running time apart.

I did a good job of picking off CTs... until I was kicked by a reserved slot holder...

As for the time, maybe Vulcan can make the bomb timer longer on this map...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assault9

How's people's frame rates on this one?

My framerate is fine...

**Assault9** · 10-17-2007, 12:47 AM

Frames were pretty good on this one which is surprising given that Source isn't exactly cut out to do Oblivion style landscapes. The atmosphere is very good as people can sneak up on you very easily. It was almost like playing Vietcong again with guys just appearing out from the brush.

**.tritone.** · 10-17-2007, 09:06 AM

We found a good solid tactic that works as T's - just doing really fast and hard sweeps through the area. Once a CT fires they get pinpointed and taken out.

I even got to put my knife in Assault's head.

Even if they put 1/2 on A and 1/2 on B we'll have a strong number advantage to sweep in and plant. I managed one round to run right past the main firefight and plant before any CTs got killed.

It sounds an awful lot like rushing, but taking it slow on this map is slaughter for the T's unless the CTs have just chosen terrible positions to post in.

Also good for Ts is to post a few in mid to catch the CTs that will undoubtedly switch over when one site starts taking heat. Worked great for me a few rounds.

**Assault9** · 10-17-2007, 11:43 AM

Yeah that knife was pretty unexpected. I thought we had caught the one guy who slipped in on the right side that time.

**sparhawkxx** · 10-17-2007, 05:03 PM

maybe take the time up to 9 minutes on this one and take the bomb time up as well.

Orgetorix · 10-17-2007, 08:02 PM

It seems to me on this map that the best tactic for the CT's to use is the same as the T's. The T's should assault one bombsite with their whole force deployed in a skirmish line. Much similar to what hunters use when driving a stand of trees for deer.
The CT's best tactic is to hold the middle with their entire force and wait for the bomb to be planted. Once planted they assault the planted bombsite en mass. If they split their force evenly then they suffer on the rotation because of the large distance between sites.
To me it seems that once this map becomes familiar with the player base it will be a hugely T sided map. And I don't see any good way of fixing it short of reducing the distance between bombsites.
A Longer bomb timer might help. But I don't see a benefit in increasing the time of the map. From what I saw the first engagement between forces is usually within 1:30 and is over quickly. T's plant the bomb and then spread out to intercept the rotating CT's. Who have a hard time of it because they are assaulting a numerically superior force deployed to receive their attack.

**sparhawkxx** · 10-17-2007, 09:18 PM

The tactic that Tritone explained is 1 of many more to come for a map like this. So yes for the size more time is not a bad idea. I will bet if T's keep using that same tactic in time CT will beat it. That is what makes TG such a challenge to play at. You play both sides and try to figure out a plan or plans to beat the other team. Once you master a plan it might take a week for another to counter what you thought was such a good plan.

We play hard and learn our mistakes so we can stop our enemy. If you have no idea on how to counter you should be thinking of one when you are playing. With good dedicated comms you should be able to counter T's. What the CT have against them is watching a site only to have the bomb planted at another with little or no time to defuse.

Sorry but buy putting the CT in the middle of the map you are not watching your objective. Planting or tagging hostages is a small loss for the team that should be protecting them. I don't want to see that plan in effect on any map please. It is not objective friendly.

Orgetorix · 10-17-2007, 10:13 PM

And that's the point I'm trying to make. That this is not a very TG friendly map. Because of the fact that as I see it the best tactic for the CT's to employ is to NOT guard the objectives, but to concentrate their force in a position to respond to the bomb being planted in either site. In such a way that they can bring the most concentrated force to bear at the objective after it has already been captured by the Op-For.
I could be wrong in this, as I have only played this map once as a T. Spar we were on the same side and you had to have seen on the last round when the CT's used this tactic they were more effective.
I'm not the best tactician here and I will readily admit this, but this is how I have read this map.

**sparhawkxx** · 10-17-2007, 11:33 PM

True but when we first started the map who was winning? Ct was until we choose to pick up the pace of our rush. That was our counter. Its there turn now. Meaning there turn, you have to now join the CT and try your best to figure out how to stop them. You have to give a map like this time. Why? So I or whoever else that likes to plan can figure out the best tactic. Thats why on a hard map like this you have to play the game as a Tactical Gamer and work as one unit. Not saying you wasn't or anybody else. It just happens on a new map.

Basic strat on this map which. I like to use on all maps. Once you see the enemy start pulling 1 man from your other site to backup. If you lose another person get another backup. If your team takes down maybe say 3 of the enemy just have the 1 move over. If you see the bomb, thats the leaders call you can all move over. But I like to see the bomb in close range of site, thats when I know they are dedicated.

I know we don't always assign people to sites but if we just look at the minimap and make a decision you can protect your team better.Tell the person with you to go or you tell them your moving over. If you do this you have a constant flow of comms and backup.

**Vulcan** · 10-18-2007, 04:44 PM

On maps where bombsites are spread out more than you'd like, the challenge is for the ct's to get a jump on the T's intended target with a man out scouting. The ct's holding bombsites must be prepared to hit and run so the other bombsite ct's can make a move to reinforce. This is the same deal on cpl_fire. It's not impossible and lends a hand to a different set of tactics.

**Delta** · 10-23-2007, 09:28 PM

All I can say is that this map is awesome. I see no problem with how it is now. If the CT's can't get to a site? That's too bad, it's their own problem for not having a well set up defensive perimeter. Or it could just be bad shooting. CT's definitely have one up on the T's in this map because of the fact that they can silence their M4's. I might have to change my opinion and agree with Spar that this map might be the best, or close to, map we have. God bless you, Schwa.

ednos · 10-24-2007, 12:47 AM

The lighting is also in the favor of the Counter-Terrorists, I noticed.

10-15-2007, 10:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
.tritone. Join Date: Aug 2007 Age: 21 Posts: 563	de_forest I'm having mixed feelings about this one. It's HUGE and extremely unforgiving. If the T's have much sense at all they'll be in one pack which pretty much guarantees having about double the guns at whichever bomb site they plant at. Once the bomb is planted the remaining CTs are completely screwed. There is simply no way for them to 'clear' the area to defuse. Alternatively, the T's have to deal with walking through the forest with little to no idea where the CTs are posted up. If they're patient they can deal with that, though. Not much the CTs can do about having to guard two bombsites that are 30 seconds of running time apart. __________________ Perhaps you should read the SOPs

10-15-2007, 11:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Assault9 Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 32 Posts: 609	Re: de_forest How's people's frame rates on this one? __________________ Kermit - "Now, if we want to get Miss Piggy out of jail we're going to have to catch those thieves red-handed. Yes Beau?" Beauregard - "What color are their hands now?"

10-17-2007, 12:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
Assault9 Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 32 Posts: 609	Re: de_forest Frames were pretty good on this one which is surprising given that Source isn't exactly cut out to do Oblivion style landscapes. The atmosphere is very good as people can sneak up on you very easily. It was almost like playing Vietcong again with guys just appearing out from the brush. __________________ Kermit - "Now, if we want to get Miss Piggy out of jail we're going to have to catch those thieves red-handed. Yes Beau?" Beauregard - "What color are their hands now?"

10-17-2007, 09:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
.tritone. Join Date: Aug 2007 Age: 21 Posts: 563	Re: de_forest We found a good solid tactic that works as T's - just doing really fast and hard sweeps through the area. Once a CT fires they get pinpointed and taken out. I even got to put my knife in Assault's head. Even if they put 1/2 on A and 1/2 on B we'll have a strong number advantage to sweep in and plant. I managed one round to run right past the main firefight and plant before any CTs got killed. It sounds an awful lot like rushing, but taking it slow on this map is slaughter for the T's unless the CTs have just chosen terrible positions to post in. Also good for Ts is to post a few in mid to catch the CTs that will undoubtedly switch over when one site starts taking heat. Worked great for me a few rounds. __________________ Perhaps you should read the SOPs

10-17-2007, 11:43 AM	#7 (permalink)
Assault9 Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 32 Posts: 609	Re: de_forest Yeah that knife was pretty unexpected. I thought we had caught the one guy who slipped in on the right side that time. __________________ Kermit - "Now, if we want to get Miss Piggy out of jail we're going to have to catch those thieves red-handed. Yes Beau?" Beauregard - "What color are their hands now?"

10-17-2007, 05:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
sparhawkxx Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,734	Re: de_forest maybe take the time up to 9 minutes on this one and take the bomb time up as well. __________________ FUN FUN

10-17-2007, 08:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Orgetorix Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: St. Cloud, MN Age: 30 Posts: 34	Re: de_forest It seems to me on this map that the best tactic for the CT's to use is the same as the T's. The T's should assault one bombsite with their whole force deployed in a skirmish line. Much similar to what hunters use when driving a stand of trees for deer. The CT's best tactic is to hold the middle with their entire force and wait for the bomb to be planted. Once planted they assault the planted bombsite en mass. If they split their force evenly then they suffer on the rotation because of the large distance between sites. To me it seems that once this map becomes familiar with the player base it will be a hugely T sided map. And I don't see any good way of fixing it short of reducing the distance between bombsites. A Longer bomb timer might help. But I don't see a benefit in increasing the time of the map. From what I saw the first engagement between forces is usually within 1:30 and is over quickly. T's plant the bomb and then spread out to intercept the rotating CT's. Who have a hard time of it because they are assaulting a numerically superior force deployed to receive their attack. __________________ The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty". -R.A. Heinlein

10-17-2007, 09:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
sparhawkxx Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,734	Re: de_forest The tactic that Tritone explained is 1 of many more to come for a map like this. So yes for the size more time is not a bad idea. I will bet if T's keep using that same tactic in time CT will beat it. That is what makes TG such a challenge to play at. You play both sides and try to figure out a plan or plans to beat the other team. Once you master a plan it might take a week for another to counter what you thought was such a good plan. We play hard and learn our mistakes so we can stop our enemy. If you have no idea on how to counter you should be thinking of one when you are playing. With good dedicated comms you should be able to counter T's. What the CT have against them is watching a site only to have the bomb planted at another with little or no time to defuse. Sorry but buy putting the CT in the middle of the map you are not watching your objective. Planting or tagging hostages is a small loss for the team that should be protecting them. I don't want to see that plan in effect on any map please. It is not objective friendly. __________________ FUN FUN

10-17-2007, 10:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
Orgetorix Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: St. Cloud, MN Age: 30 Posts: 34	Re: de_forest And that's the point I'm trying to make. That this is not a very TG friendly map. Because of the fact that as I see it the best tactic for the CT's to employ is to NOT guard the objectives, but to concentrate their force in a position to respond to the bomb being planted in either site. In such a way that they can bring the most concentrated force to bear at the objective after it has already been captured by the Op-For. I could be wrong in this, as I have only played this map once as a T. Spar we were on the same side and you had to have seen on the last round when the CT's used this tactic they were more effective. I'm not the best tactician here and I will readily admit this, but this is how I have read this map. __________________ The two highest achievements of the human mind are the twin concepts of "loyalty" and "duty". -R.A. Heinlein

10-17-2007, 11:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
sparhawkxx Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,734	Re: de_forest True but when we first started the map who was winning? Ct was until we choose to pick up the pace of our rush. That was our counter. Its there turn now. Meaning there turn, you have to now join the CT and try your best to figure out how to stop them. You have to give a map like this time. Why? So I or whoever else that likes to plan can figure out the best tactic. Thats why on a hard map like this you have to play the game as a Tactical Gamer and work as one unit. Not saying you wasn't or anybody else. It just happens on a new map. Basic strat on this map which. I like to use on all maps. Once you see the enemy start pulling 1 man from your other site to backup. If you lose another person get another backup. If your team takes down maybe say 3 of the enemy just have the 1 move over. If you see the bomb, thats the leaders call you can all move over. But I like to see the bomb in close range of site, thats when I know they are dedicated. I know we don't always assign people to sites but if we just look at the minimap and make a decision you can protect your team better.Tell the person with you to go or you tell them your moving over. If you do this you have a constant flow of comms and backup. __________________ FUN FUN

10-18-2007, 04:44 PM	#13 (permalink)
Vulcan Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Age: 29 Posts: 6,845	Re: de_forest On maps where bombsites are spread out more than you'd like, the challenge is for the ct's to get a jump on the T's intended target with a man out scouting. The ct's holding bombsites must be prepared to hit and run so the other bombsite ct's can make a move to reinforce. This is the same deal on cpl_fire. It's not impossible and lends a hand to a different set of tactics. __________________ TG Primer - CSS SOP's - INS SOP's

10-23-2007, 09:28 PM	#14 (permalink)
Delta Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: AMERICA! Age: 18 Posts: 1,047	Re: de_forest All I can say is that this map is awesome. I see no problem with how it is now. If the CT's can't get to a site? That's too bad, it's their own problem for not having a well set up defensive perimeter. Or it could just be bad shooting. CT's definitely have one up on the T's in this map because of the fact that they can silence their M4's. I might have to change my opinion and agree with Spar that this map might be the best, or close to, map we have. God bless you, Schwa. __________________ \|TG-4th\| Delta TG Primer CS:S SOP's - ArmA SOP's - INS SOP's Atomic Dog: Do it, hit it with a crowbar! Delta: I don't have a crowbar. Atomic Dog: Hit it with the dog!

10-24-2007, 12:47 AM	#15 (permalink)
ednos Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,724	Re: de_forest The lighting is also in the favor of the Counter-Terrorists, I noticed. __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

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