Discussion for Server 2 - Realism Hardcore Server - Un-ranked

[machowner]

From Trooper's post.

So we have the other thread for the mixed mod server(server 1) lets get some ideals banged out for the Hardcore server. Couple things to start out. Our first intention was to create a server like our COD2 server. Default weapon kits, accuracy and penetration adjustments, Longer timers, bigger maps.

Change kit load outs would be something like m4 with GL, and sniper with claymores and smokes. Basically to define what each kit is supposed to do and then allow the player to do so. Perks would be changed or added if needed. Another idea with the kit load outs would be to eliminate weapons and perks that really do nothing for game play, like martyrdom and last stand just as examples.

Bullet accuracy will go along way to help balance out that P90 sniper, or better yet the MP5 pick off. In line with this iron sites will be almost needed for any sort of engagement short of being scared crap less when Clod comes around that corner with the G36c. Penetration wil be the same, 9mm wont go thru brick walls but a 50cal would.

Larger maps, well thats out of our control at this point, along with longer timers until those maps are released.


Thats what we are thinking of doing to the server. Any ideas or suggestions to make it better. The stuff i made bold would make it unranked. And keep it civil.

[Trooper]

So we have the other thread for the mixed mod server(server 1) lets get some ideals banged out for the Hardcore server. Couple things to start out. Our first intention was to create a server like our COD2 server. Default weapon kits, accuracy and penetration adjustments, Longer timers, bigger maps.

Change kit load outs would be something like m4 with GL, and sniper with claymores and smokes. Basically to define what each kit is supposed to do and then allow the player to do so. Perks would be changed or added if needed. Another idea with the kit load outs would be to eliminate weapons and perks that really do nothing for game play, like martyrdom and last stand just as examples.

Bullet accuracy will go along way to help balance out that P90 sniper, or better yet the MP5 pick off. In line with this iron sites will be almost needed for any sort of engagement short of being scared crap less when Clod comes around that corner with the G36c. Penetration wil be the same, 9mm wont go thru brick walls but a 50cal would.

Larger maps, well thats out of our control at this point, along with longer timers until those maps are released.


Thats what we are thinking of doing to the server. Any ideas or suggestions to make it better. The stuff i made bold would make it unranked. And keep it civil.

[Hidus]

1. What is the rationale for having forced kit loadouts? I could understand if sniper kit was overpowered and 80% of the people were playing sniper but so far I've seen a pretty good mix of kits/loadouts without forcing anything.

2. I have no problem with reduced effective range for the SMGs. It is kind of silly that you can snipe with an SMG in hardcore. I don't understand the desire to force iron sights. Can someone please explain that one to me? There is a built-in accuracy advantage to iron sights already.

3. Martydom and Last Stand I wouldn't miss.

[=Sarc=]

ARGH. I just posted to a thread that got merged here and my post was lost.

Maybe I'm just masochistic but I like the killcam. Part of it is from playing on no-hip shooting servers. I get to see if the other player is playing by the server rules. I'd rather have this rule than a server setting that makes the server unranked.

This brings up a question. If the server is unranked, I don't be getting points towards unlocking perks and weapons. How do I get to use claymores as a sniper if I haven't unlocked them and can't unlock them since I'm always playing (theoretically) on the TG Hardcore server?

Honestly, I like the way the server is now. The game play is tactical and has very little run and gun behaviour. The only improvement I want to see now is players using more VOIP and keeping up with the good teamwork.

[Trooper]

going unranked would open all locked items.

The main idea behind limiting kits is to reduce grenades and claymore spamage. Removal of certain perks for certain kits is do-able if default kits dont work.

[=Sarc=]

Originally Posted by Trooper

going unranked would open all locked items.

The main idea behind limiting kits is to reduce grenades and claymore spamage. Removal of certain perks for certain kits is do-able if default kits dont work.

I haven't seen a lot of claymore and grenade spam on the TG server the past two nights. It seems like it's ok to keep it the way it is. If someone wants more grenades, they're sacrificing that perk slot. If someone wants claymores, they're sacrificing something else. Plus, an attacking team sometimes needs to use a lot of grenades. Just enforce a rule to use a grenade only on known target positions. The killcam would help detect this spam behaviour. Am I pushing the killcam too much?

How do the unlocked items work? I thought we can't edit classes while connected to a server?

[Trooper]

Kill cam wont make it back on the Hardcore server. Like most have said it points out a good spot when you get killed. If oyu think someone is "cheating" spec and let an admin know.

Limiting grenades will really cut back on spam, it works. And giveing only certain kits those grenades makes people think before they just throw them

Also going unranked we can bring back things like HUD and mini map.

[Bommando]

Just a thought: I believe it's better if you're going to mod a server to mod it so certain behaviours are encouraged and others discouraged by the engine, not the rules. That said: it's best to start with everything enabled and then remove perks / items as they come up as problems.

My reasoning is that you should try to avoid rules as much as possible. Rather than have to watch everyone and keep slapping people on the wrist, try to encourage a style of play to manifest itself naturally. So, rules like "must use ironsights" and "no nade spamming" are a mistake to try to enforce IMO if you can just discourage them from the start. Rules like this are too subjective and open to abuse. I for one don't want to have to whine about the way I died every time I see the kill-cam. People should be able to use what's available to them.

For example: To discourage hip-shooting, you just drastically reduce the range at which hip-shooting is effective and increase spread. The reason people hip-shoot now is because if you load up a weapon with Double-Tap, you can easily spray with a LMG and nail someone with a stray bullet in HC mode. Remove this incentive and you drastically reduce its usefulness and therefore its implementation. Rather than sit around baby-sitting people all the time, just take out the incentive to do what they're doing. Let the engine manage behaviour for you. It makes for a much happier population and attracts the right people instead of smacktards who want to break the rules and rule-lawyers who want to enforce them like some holy scripture.

[Trooper]

Originally Posted by Bommando

Just a thought: I believe it's better if you're going to mod a server to mod it so certain behaviours are encouraged and others discouraged by the engine, not the rules. That said: it's best to start with everything enabled and then remove perks / items as they come up as problems.

My reasoning is that you should try to avoid rules as much as possible. Rather than have to watch everyone and keep slapping people on the wrist, try to encourage a style of play to manifest itself naturally. So, rules like "must use ironsights" and "no nade spamming" are a mistake to try to enforce IMO if you can just discourage them from the start. Rules like this are too subjective and open to abuse. I for one don't want to have to whine about the way I died every time I see the kill-cam. People should be able to use what's available to them.

For example: To discourage hip-shooting, you just drastically reduce the range at which hip-shooting is effective and increase spread. The reason people hip-shoot now is because if you load up a weapon with Double-Tap, you can easily spray with a LMG and nail someone with a stray bullet in HC mode. Remove this incentive and you drastically reduce its usefulness and therefore its implementation. Rather than sit around baby-sitting people all the time, just take out the incentive to do what they're doing. Let the engine manage behaviour for you. It makes for a much happier population and attracts the right people instead of smacktards who want to break the rules and rule-lawyers who want to enforce them like some holy scripture.

thats teh exact reason for some of the changes. Remove the ability to do it effectively and people will stop doing it.

One thing im looking into as well is the ability to DROP the bomb.

[machowner]

I dropped the bomb on a server. Have no idea how it happened though but I was running to the target and switched weapons or something along those lines.

[|SOG| Vir2L]

I'd like to see the compass on server 2. as of right now.. it's very hard to tell team-mates where contacts are accurately. At least with a compass we can call out directions.

[Trooper]

Yeah seeing teammates would be a great help. It would also help when you have those people that dont have mics and they are trying to tell you where they are, and then die.

[WhiskeySix]

Originally Posted by |SOG| Vir2L

I'd like to see the compass on server 2. as of right now.. it's very hard to tell team-mates where contacts are accurately. At least with a compass we can call out directions.

i have no idea what the maps are like, but if spawns are always opposite, you could just say one side is north and one side is south. Make it a standard... Axis (for lack of a better term) spawns on the north edge of all maps and Allies (?) always spawn on the southern border.

<shrug>

(edit: or you could just mod in the compass )

[machowner]

Well something that does work is the map when you hit esc. It shows friendly positions also. Not as easily seen, but its there if you hit esc.

[=Sarc=]

On the other hand, you'll be answering questions to pubbies about why certain things have been removed, alienating new players that want rank ups (either for a sense of tracked accomplishment or to gain a preferred weapon), and waiting for changes when this can all be achieved now.

Condition the players to play a certain way now instead of getting some mod to do it for you. If the standards aren't set now, players will miss things you take out later. Are admins afraid of educating the public with direct communication? Letting the engine do the work is lazy and not too personal to the pubbie.

There are currently very few rules for the server. Most of them are don't act dumb that every server for any game should enforce. The remaining two are use teamwork (pretty much a given for TG) and don't bunny hop (another given for TG). There should be some rules catered for COD4. I don't want to wait for some mod that takes away my experience.

I know there are the ribbons but not everybody gets them and I might not play enough to get one. I also don't want to be left with crap loadouts if TG ever decides to do a pub raid. I like the game's ranking system. It's qualitative instead of subjective. I like the rewards it gives such as a new weapon or perk to try. It's also frustrating to unlock weapons but it gives you that feeling of accomplishment when you unlock it.

Ditch the modding and make the server act like the way you want now.