bleed rates?

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 10:11 AM

Once you hold a majority of flags (3 out of 5 or 2 out of 3), the other team starts bleeding tickets. Does anyone know how fast that happens? It seems like it's one ticket every 5-6 seconds (~10 tickets/minute)?

icky · 12-07-2007, 10:30 AM

Somewhere out there is a post I made many moons ago which details the bleed rate formula. If you can't find that, here's my rough recap from memory:

Well go with V1 and V2 for the CP's controlled value for Team1 and Team2 respectively. On a 5 CP map, the CP values will be set so that when one team has 3 CP's, they will have just over 100 points. The value number for simplicity is almost always 35.

Bleed happens when V1 or V2 is over 100. The rate is determined by subtracting the lower value from the higher value and then applying a multiplier.

So in the 5 CP example, if the CP's are split 3-2, the bleed rate will be:
(RateMulti/60)(3 * 35 - 2* 35)/100

The only thing I can't remember is the typical multiplier value. 10 or 12 comes to mind. The result is tickets per second.

The multiplier is a map setting, and the CP values are set on individual CP's. Furthermore, the CP's can have different values for each team, which is why you see the strange behaviour on Woodland, for example.

Bleed will be different for 3 CP maps, where each CP will have a value of 50.
(RateMulti/60)(2*50 - 1*50)/100

When I did my bleed override, I simplified the calculation and ignored the actual CP values.

Edit: oops, fixed

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 10:34 AM

I'll read that again after I have another coffee

Thanks icky!

**thedogwarrior** · 12-07-2007, 10:48 AM

You did all that from *memory*? Dude!

kilevvri1 · 12-07-2007, 10:52 AM

OMFG!, icky are you an actuary?

icky · 12-07-2007, 11:07 AM

er... found some code and I'm revising my first post quite a bit.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 11:10 AM

looked at gpm_cq.py... it has the calculation, but it's missing the hard numbers to get ticketLossPerSecond

icky · 12-07-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

looked at gpm_cq.py... it has the calculation, but it's missing the hard numbers to get ticketLossPerSecond

Ya, that's the spot.

DefaultTicketLossPerMinute is in the init.con for the map. Then the difference in AreaValue between the two teams becomes a percentage modifier on that default. The area values are in the GPO.con file for the map.

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 12:02 PM

thanks...

So for most maps it seems DefaultTicketLossPerMinute = 10, and for most flags, AreaValue = 40 . Given equally weighted flags (i.e. all flags count the same towards bleed) the equation would reduce to this:

Ticket Loss per minute = (Team1Flags - Team2Flags)*4

so... <does quick math>

Bleed with 1 flag advantage (holding 3-of-5 or 2-of-3 flags) = 4 Tickets per minute
Bleed with 3 flag advantage (holding 4-of-5 or 3-of-3 flags) = 12 Tickets per minute
Bleed with 5 flag advantage (holding 5-of-5 flags) = 20 Tickets per minute

kilevvri1 · 12-07-2007, 12:27 PM

Well this is good to know, thanks Whiskey for bringing this up. Now I can calculate the best way to come back from a deficit. Defense and all aside, there have been a few rounds in the previous days that needed a little more than the plain get them on bleed mantra, I think.

BTW what time do you get on Whiskey? I haven't been in a squad with you in ages, since that Twilight Zone round on Fallen where we won the round without holding more than 1 or 2 flags. Remember that one?

**WhiskeySix** · 12-07-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilevvri1

BTW what time do you get on Whiskey?

10:30EST or so..

**Namebot** · 12-07-2007, 03:38 PM

Conclusion:

On smaller maps with more engagement, it may be better to repeatedly win engagements rather than sacrifice tickets to take a flag?

kilevvri1 · 12-07-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namebot

Conclusion:

On smaller maps with more engagement, it may be better to repeatedly win engagements rather than sacrifice tickets to take a flag?

True, but smaller maps aren't my concern in this regard, as they can usually be capped out quite efficiently when there is effective bleed for most of the round.

**Tempus** · 12-07-2007, 11:40 PM

4 tickets per minute for a majority hold is pretty paltry, IMO. Would we want to increase that?

Braidedheadman · 12-08-2007, 03:45 AM

If it meant that people pay more attention to bleed conditions and stop zerging across certain maps, I'd be all for that.

12-07-2007, 10:11 AM	#1 (permalink)
WhiskeySix Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gillette Stadium, Section 309, Row 12, Seat 24 Age: 33 Posts: 8,271	bleed rates? Once you hold a majority of flags (3 out of 5 or 2 out of 3), the other team starts bleeding tickets. Does anyone know how fast that happens? It seems like it's one ticket every 5-6 seconds (~10 tickets/minute)? __________________ *PoE2 Version 2.5 Overview \| Get started with PoE2 (for free!)*

12-07-2007, 10:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
icky Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ottawa Valley Posts: 6,154	Re: bleed rates? Somewhere out there is a post I made many moons ago which details the bleed rate formula. If you can't find that, here's my rough recap from memory: Well go with V1 and V2 for the CP's controlled value for Team1 and Team2 respectively. On a 5 CP map, the CP values will be set so that when one team has 3 CP's, they will have just over 100 points. The value number for simplicity is almost always 35. Bleed happens when V1 or V2 is over 100. The rate is determined by subtracting the lower value from the higher value and then applying a multiplier. So in the 5 CP example, if the CP's are split 3-2, the bleed rate will be: (RateMulti/60)(3 * 35 - 2* 35)/100 The only thing I can't remember is the typical multiplier value. 10 or 12 comes to mind. The result is tickets per second. The multiplier is a map setting, and the CP values are set on individual CP's. Furthermore, the CP's can have different values for each team, which is why you see the strange behaviour on Woodland, for example. Bleed will be different for 3 CP maps, where each CP will have a value of 50. (RateMulti/60)(250 - 150)/100 When I did my bleed override, I simplified the calculation and ignored the actual CP values. Edit: oops, fixed __________________ Peace through fear... since 1947! Last edited by icky; 12-07-2007 at 11:13 AM.

12-07-2007, 10:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
WhiskeySix Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gillette Stadium, Section 309, Row 12, Seat 24 Age: 33 Posts: 8,271	Re: bleed rates? <blink> <blink> <head explodes> I'll read that again after I have another coffee Thanks icky! __________________ *PoE2 Version 2.5 Overview \| Get started with PoE2 (for free!)*

12-07-2007, 10:48 AM	#4 (permalink)
thedogwarrior Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV, USA Age: 40 Posts: 1,505	Re: bleed rates? You did all that from memory? Dude! __________________ *\|TG-8th\| Mercs New to TG? Start Here * Become a Supporting Member**

12-07-2007, 10:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
kilevvri1 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montego Bay, Jamaica Age: 30 Posts: 473	Re: bleed rates? OMFG!, icky are you an actuary? __________________ Long May the FFTHFF(5th) live in our memories and our teamplay.

12-07-2007, 11:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
icky Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ottawa Valley Posts: 6,154	Re: bleed rates? er... found some code and I'm revising my first post quite a bit. __________________ Peace through fear... since 1947!

12-07-2007, 11:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
WhiskeySix Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gillette Stadium, Section 309, Row 12, Seat 24 Age: 33 Posts: 8,271	Re: bleed rates? looked at gpm_cq.py... it has the calculation, but it's missing the hard numbers to get ticketLossPerSecond __________________ *PoE2 Version 2.5 Overview \| Get started with PoE2 (for free!)*

12-07-2007, 12:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
WhiskeySix Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gillette Stadium, Section 309, Row 12, Seat 24 Age: 33 Posts: 8,271	Re: bleed rates? thanks... So for most maps it seems DefaultTicketLossPerMinute = 10, and for most flags, AreaValue = 40 . Given equally weighted flags (i.e. all flags count the same towards bleed) the equation would reduce to this: Ticket Loss per minute = (Team1Flags - Team2Flags)4 so... <does quick math> Bleed with 1 flag advantage (holding 3-of-5 or 2-of-3 flags) = 4 Tickets per minute* Bleed with 3 flag advantage (holding 4-of-5 or 3-of-3 flags) = 12 Tickets per minute Bleed with 5 flag advantage (holding 5-of-5 flags) = 20 Tickets per minute __________________ *PoE2 Version 2.5 Overview \| Get started with PoE2 (for free!)*

12-07-2007, 12:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
kilevvri1 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Montego Bay, Jamaica Age: 30 Posts: 473	Re: bleed rates? Well this is good to know, thanks Whiskey for bringing this up. Now I can calculate the best way to come back from a deficit. Defense and all aside, there have been a few rounds in the previous days that needed a little more than the plain get them on bleed mantra, I think. BTW what time do you get on Whiskey? I haven't been in a squad with you in ages, since that Twilight Zone round on Fallen where we won the round without holding more than 1 or 2 flags. Remember that one? __________________ Long May the FFTHFF(5th) live in our memories and our teamplay.

12-07-2007, 03:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
Namebot Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 362	Re: bleed rates? Conclusion: On smaller maps with more engagement, it may be better to repeatedly win engagements rather than sacrifice tickets to take a flag?

12-07-2007, 11:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
Tempus Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Age: 38 Posts: 8,170	Re: bleed rates? 4 tickets per minute for a majority hold is pretty paltry, IMO. Would we want to increase that? __________________ Battlefield 2/2142 Game Officer Contact me with server/player/admin issues. -- Suits are what you wear when doing things you shouldn’t want to do anyway. FROM THE TACTICAL GAMER PRIMER. 3) Support game play in a near-simulation environment. Where the focus of play would not be solely on doing what it takes to win, but doing so utilizing real-world combat strategy and tactics rather than leveraging exploits provided to players by the design of the game engine.

12-08-2007, 03:45 AM	#15 (permalink)
Braidedheadman Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 933	Re: bleed rates? If it meant that people pay more attention to bleed conditions and stop zerging across certain maps, I'd be all for that. __________________

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