Favorite and hated maps?

[ikonic]

My favorites:

El Alamein
Supercharge
The Battle of Sheik (or whatever it's called)

My hated:

Hyacinth
Tobruk (The axis NEVER get ticket bleed)


What's yours?

[Bernout]

I don't know the maps well enough yet to have a list but I can say that El Alamein is one of my favorites. As the British, I love attacking the Kidney Ridge flag. And defending it once you get it is a lot of fun too.

Bernout

[westyfield]

I like Battle for Sfakia, some nice infantry combat there. I haven't played every map yet though...

[Steiner]

I played Tobruk for the first time last night, and I found it to be one of the better maps I´ve played. True, it is much about breaking trough the front, but I can already see proper tactics being employed in that map and the use of combined arms.

[ikonic]

Unless the Allies have Down Syndrome, they will never lose on Tobruk. Why? First off, the Axis never get bleed regardless of how many flags are held; one round I played had the Allies to their last flag and the Allies were not taking Ticket Bleed even though the Axis had 5/6 flags. Secondly, the fact that the Axis never get bleed will further disadvantage them when they are on the last flag trying to capture it - the Allies will all be there and since they will have a large ticket margin due to the fact that the Axis had to bleed until they secured the first 3 flags, they will simply win by attrition and by delaying or stopping the Axis offense.

[Catraphact]

The DEV team has said repeatedly that the map is balanced (Tobruk). They say we need to give it more time...Although I agree that the bleed should stop.

[ikonic]

I don't know how they can think that. I don't know how they went about testing it, but with the TG server at capacity, its 31 axis struggling to get a flag; we will lose over 100 tickets from deaths alone until we stop bleed, while the allies will be lucky to lose half of that from deaths - and this doesn't include attacking the 2nd lines of defense and pushing onto the last flag; by the time the axis reach those inner 3 flags, there will such a noticeable ticket margin and makes it a losing situation for the Axis.

Here are the reasons why the Axis has trouble with attacking the first line of defense:

-The Allies have too many 2 / 6 pdr guns on the frontlines, the Bofors 40mm have only a single plane to shoot at - so most of that firepower is instead used on tanks that make it past the 2 / 6 pound guns.

-The Axis has only 1 stuka, while it effectively turns an area into dust real quick, it doesn't stop the respawns that are going to repair any destroyed guns caught in the bombing. The Stuka also has to deal with the Bofors 40mm immediately after takeoff and doesn't last too long since the 3 front guns are pointing at it (and probably the ones at the 2nd line of defense as well)

-The Axis armor have to traverse through bottlenecks and avoid in-game minefields. The open areas are then mined by the Allied engineers. If any Axis armor survive the AT gun onslaught, they are finished off by mines or the Bofors 40mm. Axis minesweepers are simply picked off in the open.

- The Axis infantry have the advantage, but without consistent support from armor, they are going to be torn into ribbons by the defenders.


The map emphasizes extreme Tactics, Teamwork and Communication. This would be a perfect scrim map; however, this map falls flat on its face when it comes to public play that doesn't operate that way. I am talking in a general sense and not as a TG server only sense. Here are my suggestions on how to fix this:

-Stop Axis bleed at 3/6 flags, Allies bleed once the 2nd line falls (5/6) - this will force the Allies to break out of their last flag, instead of turtling it and whittling the Axis tickets to 0.

-Give the Axis 1 more Stuka

-Remove the "Mine" bottleneck outside the Axis main to allow the armor to move off the road and avoid getting picked off by the AT guns.

-Add more craters and tank trap obstacles to allow infantry more cover while advancing on foot.

-Script the Bofors 40mm guns at the 2nd defense line flags to spawn once the first line has fallen. This will prevent 5 Bofors guns from firing on Stukas at all angles. If the scripting isn't possible, remove one and place one further back near the last flag.

-Remove all 6 pdr guns at the 2nd defense line flags and place 2 pdrs and lay down an in-game minefield where the trench is between the 1st and 2nd line of defense.

[WhiskeySix]

great post ^^^

[Catraphact]

Well, in order to dispel some of the criticism about Tobruk:


And, no, the Allies did not have "down syndrome" and the teams were not Stacked:


Its possible on a pubbie night. It requires some time. People will start to get familiar with the map. Germans won 33-0.

[ikonic]

Catraphact, I want you to go on other servers and show us similar results. When I look at your screenshots and your assertion, I call shenanigans (and it's nothing personal against you, either); simply because of the fact that you based this off the TG server. Note that the TG server strictly enforces squadding up and strongly encourages teamwork; also note that there are many more TG and TG server regulars in your screenshot - which from what it looks like on the Axis side, 2 full squads of TG regular players that are comfortable playing with each other (and probably the same on the Allied side from what the scoreboard shows). Having ~37% (12 of 32) of the Axis using teamwork is a HUGE difference and if the other squads were doing an equal amount, then that effect is further magnified. The Allied side is unknown, but we can predict there was at least 1 TG dominated squad due to the number of TG members.

You will RARELY see that on a true public server that gives 2 nickels about teamwork and community. That's how Tactical Gamer sets itself apart from everyone else. We aren't some stuck up clan that is going to ban someone that is better than us, we aren't going to tolerate childish crap, and we take the Teamwork aspect and kick it up a notch and go BAM! (R.I.P. Emeril Live , also note my shameless advertising of TG )

Now, I ask of you to go on a true public server that suffers from minimal teamwork, has lax rule-sets (which shouldn't be hard) and idiots that will TK you because you stole "their" plane/tank/car/firstborn and tell me if this map is suited for general population play. If you can consistently show that the Axis can win this map, you MAY have a valid point; but as it currently stands, this map has major flaws.

[Catraphact]

I like the TG server because of it. I love the focus on teamplay, and this is what attracts me to your server.

The map is not flawed if people work as a team...my screenshots have proved atleast that. It is a teamwork orientated and TG style of map. FH has always attracted the teamwork crowd...and if you played FH1 as much as I did, you'd know that Tobruk was not the only map of its kind. The Devs have made a lot of seemingly impossible maps...I still say give it atleast 2 weeks before being so assertive on your verdict. The mod was designed with teamplay in mind so there is no flaw if the map requires some co-ordination to win

Since you play POE2 a lot (From what I've seen), I say to you: Which one do you hate more, Snake Eyes or Tobruk?

[ikonic]

Originally Posted by Catraphact

I like the TG server because of it. I love the focus on teamplay, and this is what attracts me to your server.

The map is not flawed if people work as a team...my screenshots have proved atleast that. It is a teamwork orientated and TG style of map. FH has always attracted the teamwork crowd...and if you played FH1 as much as I did, you'd know that Tobruk was not the only map of its kind. The Devs have made a lot of seemingly impossible maps...I still say give it atleast 2 weeks before being so assertive on your verdict. The mod was designed with teamplay in mind so there is no flaw if the map requires some co-ordination to win

Since you play POE2 a lot (From what I've seen), I say to you: Which one do you hate more, Snake Eyes or Tobruk?

When I played FH1, I enjoyed it, but this was way back in the day before I found myself here - you know how I felt playing? Alienated and pretty pissed. I enjoyed the overall nature of FH1, but I found myself losing on the same maps on pubs (that didn't enforce rules) over and over, eventually I just left the server when I knew that certain map would play because I know that I would just be man-beasted by the enemy (or conversely, I would do the man-beasting, which made me very uncomfortable). Also remember FH1 had no in-game squads or VOIP - so teamwork was that much harder if you didn't have TS or Vent (which I didnt use back then).

My whole stink is not only the fact is the map flawed, but the fact that the map requires so much teamwork to BARELY win (33-0). I can only imagine the frustration on servers that have none. I am not asking for Tobruk to be watered down into some mindless trash, but to be toned down for the average joe that isn't hardcore about teamwork to at least have a fighting chance. I think my suggestions will do just that.

As for the Snake Eyes V. Tobruk opinion - I hate both equally because of their morbid flaws.

[p.Vicious]

Forgotten Hope is a great mod with some well made maps. Here are my favorites.
1.Battle for Sfakia
2.Operation Hyacinth
3.Bardia
4.Mersa Matruh
5.Siege of Tobruk

The other maps are decent but I wouldn't mind skipping them for one of these.

[Donagel]

Originally Posted by ikonic

Unless the Allies have Down Syndrome, they will never lose on Tobruk. Why? First off, the Axis never get bleed regardless of how many flags are held; one round I played had the Allies to their last flag and the Allies were not taking Ticket Bleed even though the Axis had 5/6 flags. Secondly, the fact that the Axis never get bleed will further disadvantage them when they are on the last flag trying to capture it - the Allies will all be there and since they will have a large ticket margin due to the fact that the Axis had to bleed until they secured the first 3 flags, they will simply win by attrition and by delaying or stopping the Axis offense.

Actually, if the Axis do push to the last flag then the Axis will win due to the hills surrounding that flag. The Axis doesn't have to atack the flag, just sit on the hill and spawn rape everything. Its quite brutal(as I think Whiskey will attest too based on last night)

[Tweaky]

To be honest, I think a majority of the FH2 maps have serious gameplay issues regarding troop advancement and how long it takes ton continuously fight for capping ONE flag.... it ain't easy.

Basically the maps have way too many stationary AT units that overpower even a huge tank group. It makes it next to impossible to infiltrate most cap areas, or even get close to them. On top of that, ticket bleed is something that doesn't look like it has been taken into consideration for the attacking team... it favors the defending team WAY too much. Of course, the maps are fun if you are the easily-winning defending team. But they are NOT fun for the attacking team.

I'll do a run through off the top of my head:

Supercharge (push): This map is incredibly annoying if the British cannot take the 2 south flags right away. Even if they do succeed in that, they have to cap 2 very hard flags, and they'll still have a bleed. I like this map, but the bleed and stressful nature of not being able to cap when you have TONS of people on the flagzone just makes it a fragfest, that's all. I've only seen Allies win once on this map.

Tobruk (push): Bleed problem an issue here for attacking team. You have to get all 5 flags to stop the bleed, by which time it is usually too late, because it is very hard to cap any of the flags and actually hold them. I've only seen Axis win once on this map.

Matruh: I like this map, but it is always a constant race back and forth of getting flags, it gets to be really annoying. Flag bleed is strange, and there is no bleed even if the Allies hold all 4 flags in the main city, and not the Garwala flag way out back.

Battle for Sfakia: Love this map, purely infantry and just one measely intranty attack tank. Always a fun small city map, and either team can easily win this.

El Alamein: A good map for overall tank and air battles. Flag capping isn't so much a problem, since usually either team will prevail and start a bleed by holding 3 flags. But the initial attack for the Allies is always so hard with the immensity of AT emplacements.

Sidi Rezeigh: This map can be annoying because of ticket bleed, and how hard it is to get into the flagzones at the airfield area. Blockhouse is usually the saving grace, but it sometimes is never enough to win it. Allied artillery is crucial for them to win it, to take out those 2 Flak 88's, and the artillery up north.

Alam Halfa (push): is yet another bottlenecked nightmare of ground pounders hitting tanks as they try to squeeze past minefields. The ticket bleed issues are severe, since Axis have to get the first (2flags) and second (2flags) stages of cap areas to hold an advance and get loads more tanks to spawn. Then they have to cap yet another line of 2 flags, and capping one of them will stop the bleed. By that time, it is usually too late, as always.

Bardia: Another cool infantry map mostly, with a few light tanks and lots of things to do. Ticket bleed is ok on this map.

Operation Hyacinth: This night map is another great infantry map, and purely infantry.... Ticket bleed is fine, and battle for the city area is great.

Aberdeen: Kind of an uncommon map servers play, and there are too many tanks to make advances on most flags. The scout plane is a fun little easter egg sorta. But still not a favorite of mine.

-----

So in summary, what maps win outright? All the infantry maps really. Battle for Skafia (seaside map), Hyacinth (night map), and Bardia (hospitals, river with 2 bridges) are my favorites. For any tank map, I prefer El Alamein, always fun on that one. All other maps just have terrible bleed problems, and I don't know how the developers expect us to control these flags with such a lame bleed system.

An amazing 4 out of 10 maps worth playing. GG