Lock those squads

[UndeadSoldier]

Nice friendly pub play there guys. Spread the love.

[ikonic]

Merry Christmas?

[[EDF]_eflight]

I don't think this kind of post benifits anyone.

Nice looks to be nothing but a troll post to get people upset

[WhiskeySix]

The style may be a bit sarcastic, but the point sound like it's rock solid. I didn't get a chance to get on last night, what happened?

[Braidedheadman]

/Shrug.

I ran a couple of specialist squads, which benefit from locking the squad once the number of SMs match the maximum number of available seats per asset. But I don't think this qualifies me for inclusion in his post, per se, as I also ran a couple of open "5INDAHAWUS" squads as well.

[ParkBench]

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

The style may be a bit sarcastic, but the point sound like it's rock solid. I didn't get a chance to get on last night, what happened?

I think I agree with Whiskey here... probably not the best way of putting it, but.... I think if I had posted about the play, last night after playing too... I'd have come off the same way.

It was my worst night of POE in a long time.

I'm not gonna throw up names, or claim the problems were all pubbies last night... but it sucked.

I totally understand the specialized locks, on air squads... I was bouncing around in squads before actually spawning for the first time, on most maps... I was finding sniper squads, of 2 people, Solo tank runners, and squad of 4-5 that were literally scattered all over the map (WTF?)... I didn't want to join any of those... So tried starting my own a couple times... and was getting pulled in 2 directions. CO orders coming down constantly in my ear, and my squad members telling me those orders were crap, and we should go 'here'. I have to say in most cases my squad members were right, the orders were not good, but CO is CO in my 'training.'

Soon enough, I'm gonna get a new mouse, and then... I pledge to squad lead alot! I know lots of people don't like to do it. I have enjoyed it thus far. staying alive and not necessarily shooting / killing is more my style (its why I like playing medic, I think)

I'd offer this. I'm more than happy to run around the map, either on foot or in a fast mover, spotting Tanks and APCs for a helo squad... if a helo squad leader just asks me. I get alot more enjoyment out of an enemy tank getting taken out cause I spotted it, then I do hitting it with AT myself. provided in the end we win the round.

so I called it a night a little earlier than usual for a friday, cause I had had enough. I know at one point someone asked an admin to tighten up the squads (lots of 1 and 2 man squads.) I can say... I didn't want to be in squads with those 1s and 2s anyway.

Love the idea, but, I'm afraid it was lost on the audience.

I think I'll call my squads 'anti-sniper' double points for killing someone who is all alone with a sniper kit.

[ParkBench]

Originally Posted by Braidedheadman

/Shrug.

I ran a couple of specialist squads, which benefit from locking the squad once the number of SMs match the maximum number of available seats per asset. But I don't think this qualifies me for inclusion in his post, per se, as I also ran a couple of open "5INDAHAWUS" squads as well.

oh... 5 in da house. damn, I saw those squads and thought they were more specialized. Briaded, count me in next time. : )

[BaneII]

/Double Shrug.

Nothing that hasn't been mentioned a number of times before: squad leaders that run specialty squads and lock them to keep the squad count low. I think when you see a custom name on the squad that it would be obvious. I pretty much kept my squad count below 5.

[Bc2ID]

I was on for a bit and did not see any of these problems, granted it was after 1030pm. Outside of the squads spread out all over the map, we were working together trying to hunt the 33rd's tanks and blow up assets. I was not overly shocked at the bad teamplay as I have seen worse.

[ThePenguineer]

Originally Posted by BaneII

/Double Shrug.

Nothing that hasn't been mentioned a number of times before: squad leaders that run specialty squads and lock them to keep the squad count low. I think when you see a custom name on the squad that it would be obvious. I pretty much kept my squad count below 5.

You should be glad the 33rd locks their squads. You REALLY don't want to see what goes on in there

Otherwise, I'm not bothered so much by locked squads (provided they have a good objective) than squads that don't work together, both within the squad and with other squads. I'd rather see a locked squad moving together than a full squad with each person doing their own thing.

With that said, though, I don't want to see 3 or more locked squads on a team. Spread the TG love, anyone? I will make an effort to lead some squads in the next few days now that I've at least seen most of the new maps. Now, if anyone actually WANTS to play in my squad is a different question.

"Can I get a squad with 5 medics? I'm gonna need them "

[asch]

Originally Posted by UndeadSoldier

Nice friendly pub play there guys. Spread the love.

The proper way to address this would be to contact an admin. Catch on one teamspeak if they are available. If not, then contact them through the forums.

That being said.... squads typically should not be locked. Locking specialty squads is not the way to go. They should be open and allow for other players to participate and share the assets. If a squad grows too large for its specialty, then the SL should politely explain the situation to the players and ask the newest player to find another squad.

[Braidedheadman]

Originally Posted by ParkBench

oh... 5 in da house. damn, I saw those squads and thought they were more specialized. Briaded, count me in next time. : )

Any time, buddy! But you gotta be quick on the draw; that squad tends to fill pretty quick and the only way to make room for specific people is, ostensibly, to lock the squad, lol.

[ikonic]

Originally Posted by asch

The proper way to address this would be to contact an admin. Catch on one teamspeak if they are available. If not, then contact them through the forums.

That being said.... squads typically should not be locked. Locking specialty squads is not the way to go. They should be open and allow for other players to participate and share the assets. If a squad grows too large for its specialty, then the SL should politely explain the situation to the players and ask the newest player to find another squad.

From the SOP (Squad) - Locking & Naming post:

Originally Posted by asch

Locking
Squad Leaders are capable of locking their squad and restricting general access. This comes with a good deal of responsibility and should only be used for special circumstances. These circumstances may include those specialty squads that require a smaller number (i.e. 2-4) of squad members and regular forming squads (i.e. 42nd).

Locking a squad should be used sparingly and with extreme caution so as not to use up all nine squad positions, effectively restricting players from joining a squad.

Having too many small squads or too many specialty squads can make it more confusing and difficult for the CO to manage the team. These specialty squads may also not fall into the overall strategy of the CO. It is the COs responsibility to order a squad to split up, reform, or merge with another squad.

Now the vast majority of the IHS's and regulars here that make locked squads normally do so for various reasons. Some want regulars and other IHS-mates have priority over pubbies (and the majority unlock it after they get their picks) and some want to maintain order in a helicopter or aircraft (so this does not interfere with ground unit communications).

As an in-game chopper pilot, I want to maintain exclusive comms with my co-pilot. I communicate with my co-pilot with hostile target information and they communicate with me with targets -- which can burden people on the ground if I am SL (they can't spawn) and the fact that with the constant chatter, the ground crews would be confused -- they are better off in another squad that is fighting purely on the ground. As for sharing assets with 1 or 2 players, I have no problem with that; HOWEVER, I do have a problem with groups of players camping a hangar or helipad waiting for them to crash or get shot down, only to get in the air and last 30 seconds before dying, and that is a major detriment to teamplay. I would rather have a competent specialty squad that knows what to do, as opposed to sharing the assets and becoming bogged down and ineffective (in respects to the specialty). Ultimately, locking squads such as these ease the amount of camping, confusion and frustration that can occur.

On the other hand, if there is a ground crew that is all snipers, multiple 1-2 man teams, that normally means (but not limited to): A)They are circumventing the auto-kick; B) They are new to the server and do not know the SOPs, or C) They used to be full squads, and then split up for (x) reason and all the new squads are hoping they come to theirs; or D)They just don't care. For those types of scenarios, yes, admin action needs to be taken.

Please fill us in if we have missed something in between the SOP creation and the reply in this post. It would be most appreciated for this discrepancy to be clarified.

[asch]

Originally Posted by ikonic

Now the vast majority of the IHS's and regulars here that make locked squads normally do so for various reasons. Some want regulars and other IHS-mates have priority over pubbies (and the majority unlock it after they get their picks)...

It shouldn't be a problem to temporarily lock a squad to reserve a spot for specific players. An example would be if a player got disconnected and was returning to the game.

On occasion IHS's will lock a squad to practice together, however this should be the exception and not the norm. The purpose of IHS's are not to isolate themselves from other (new and old) players in the community.

and some want to maintain order in a helicopter or aircraft (so this does not interfere with ground unit communications).

As an in-game chopper pilot, I want to maintain exclusive comms with my co-pilot. I communicate with my co-pilot with hostile target information and they communicate with me with targets -- which can burden people on the ground if I am SL (they can't spawn) and the fact that with the constant chatter, the ground crews would be confused -- they are better off in another squad that is fighting purely on the ground. As for sharing assets with 1 or 2 players, I have no problem with that;

Hopefully a chopper squad could efficiently handle having say four players in the specialty squad alternating turns using the chopper. That's what I mean by sharing. Locking a chopper squad with just two doesn't allow for other players to join the squad and participate in sharing the assets. That will more often lead to players not in the squad simply taking the chopper.

HOWEVER, I do have a problem with groups of players camping a hangar or helipad waiting for them to crash or get shot down, only to get in the air and last 30 seconds before dying, and that is a major detriment to teamplay. I would rather have a competent specialty squad that knows what to do, as opposed to sharing the assets and becoming bogged down and ineffective (in respects to the specialty). Ultimately, locking squads such as these ease the amount of camping, confusion and frustration that can occur.

Tactical Gamer has never been about skill. Just because someone is better at something does not entitle them to the asset. We may ask players who have no experience in the basics of flying a chopper (i.e. keeping it off the ground) from practicing during public rounds on a full server, but beyond that all players should have a chance to fly if they so desire. The specialty squad should be open to let players work out sharing.

[ikonic]

Originally Posted by asch

Tactical Gamer has never been about skill. Just because someone is better at something does not entitle them to the asset. We may ask players who have no experience in the basics of flying a chopper (i.e. keeping it off the ground) from practicing during public rounds on a full server, but beyond that all players should have a chance to fly if they so desire. The specialty squad should be open to let players work out sharing.

I didn't want to make it sound as if skilled pilots are automatically entitled, but the fact that in-experienced and "loner" pilots that contribute nothing to directly benefit ground squads are detrimental to the entire team in a tactical, team-based environment that we strive for. People know when they are "bad" at something, and we don't know that until they hop in. I also don't want it to sound as if I constantly whore the chopper on a regular basis, because for those that play alongside me, that is not always the case.

I personally believe that the sharing idea is flawed, simply because of the fact that the people not in the limited asset is essentially lone-wolfing because they are without a full complement of ground support squaddies, possibly a squad leader, and near non-existent SL orders; and if any are available, they tend to be extremely vague.

I'll give you a summed-up scenario that has happened:

Mantis + Myself + A semi-regular person (I forgot his name) have decided to divvy up the Hind slots on Berezan Island; however, that left 1 person out in the cold waiting for their turn. Now since Mantis is a cyborg and obliterates everything around him whether he is in a full squad or not -- I'm not . The point still stands that there was essentially lone wolfing occuring and just going with the flow of action and current strategy.


While still on the subject of asset sharing, how do you think mobile artillery should be shared? Tomahawks? Destroyer deck guns? (even though attacking the Destroyer is a server infraction, it happens) I couldn't fathom a Snake Eyes squad of 3-4 guys attacking the beach while the deck guns are occupied by their fellow SMs, they are better off with full-time ground squads.