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tr0gd0r3
12-31-2007, 04:57 PM
The more I play on Jiggly Puff's server (the only server I really find that can compete with TG in fun factor...) the more I hate the server and wish TG was a bit larger... I think we should try to grow our community a bit, release some bans, and loosen up on the rules a bit.
I'm not saying let's change the face of TG:NS. Just maybe try to appeal to more people so we can get more quality games going on TG, where we have responsible admins who can still moderate, but will let the odd swear word go by so long as it isn't harming anyones experience.
I understand Wyz, you'd prefer I brought this to the attention of you alone... But I'm hoping as a community you could let the entire community discuss this.
There's some good regulars on Jiggly Puff who I've invited to play on TG, and they say they're banned. Perhaps a second chance could be in order?

mr. pie
12-31-2007, 05:15 PM
The rules are what makes TG a good server. They are there to stop idiots from running loose. This is more than enough appeal to the type of players that make playing on TG an enjoyable experience.

Swearing is a simple issue. Once you give up an inch (allowing some swearing) players will take a mile and argue and whine about what qualifies. It would just be a huge headache for everyone, and especially the admins. The Primtime TV rule allows for ample communication, and I actually prefer a rule that encourages people to use vocabulary above that heard in middle school bathrooms.

Pokerface
12-31-2007, 06:13 PM
It's TG, not TF.

Your call to appeal to more people is asking us to relax the rules that make TG an enjoyable place to begin with. Adding volume at the cost of quality is out of the question.

Our rules are not difficult to understand, nor are they difficult to follow. Most people who are banned are in fact given second -- even third -- chances to return, despite the fact that more often than not, an unbanned player will regress to whatever behavior got them banned the first time around. We've every right to be cynics in this regard, but for some reason I've got this dogged optimism about the human condition that keeps letting folks have another try.

We will not relax any rules that will dilute the quality of Tactical Gamer's experience.

tr0gd0r3
12-31-2007, 06:54 PM
It's TG, not TF.

Your call to appeal to more people is asking us to relax the rules that make TG an enjoyable place to begin with. Adding volume at the cost of quality is out of the question.

Our rules are not difficult to understand, nor are they difficult to follow. Most people who are banned are in fact given second -- even third -- chances to return, despite the fact that more often than not, an unbanned player will regress to whatever behavior got them banned the first time around. We've every right to be cynics in this regard, but for some reason I've got this dogged optimism about the human condition that keeps letting folks have another try.

We will not relax any rules that will dilute the quality of Tactical Gamer's experience.

Oops, was playing NS before as comm, kept typing TF =P.
I think everyone has been guilty of swearing by accident on the server... And sometimes people don't even get a warning for swearing, and thus lose appeal after they receive a boot...

Turbinator
01-01-2008, 03:15 AM
Oops, was playing NS before as comm, kept typing TF =P.
I think everyone has been guilty of swearing by accident on the server... And sometimes people don't even get a warning for swearing, and thus lose appeal after they receive a boot...


They do get a warning, everyone does when they join the server, people don't read! :( most of the time.

Personally I'd prefer for NS to die until NS2, rather then lessen the restrictions about rules.


PS. Pie has hit a bulls eye.

lagarto
01-01-2008, 08:38 PM
I think there's some things that could be done to attract more people, and I'm not talking about endorsing stupidity.

Simple details like enabling a votemap at the end of the round, and removing the question marks icons, could help. I mention the question marks because new players to the server may feel alienated when they have a "?" by their name and are usually harassed by regulars watching over them all the time. So maybe instead of giving the new guys a question mark, we could give the regulars a different icon. Sort of like Yo-clan does.

A more extreme thing could be deleting the bans list. Before you yell at this suggestion, think that half of the people in that list probably don't even have the game installed anymore. The other half would probably not even notice they have been unbanned. And there's also the chance that people might actually show up (isn't that what we want?). Anyway, the rules would still be the same and thus, if people are still being jerks, they will be banned again.

Bleh, this was kind of a long post. It's just ridiculous to see servers like <BAD> and G4B2S are full 24/7 whereas TG is hardly ever filling up anymore. And as it is, I doubt it will start filling up again, unless suddenly a good number of regulars recover their interest on NS.

tr0gd0r3
01-01-2008, 09:16 PM
Yeah, you basically took the words out of my mouth lagarto, but I was hungover and too stupid to put together something of intelligence... i'm didn't mean let's join the morons, and have a bad community, just made the thread to discuss a way to get the community going again.

Turbinator
01-01-2008, 10:36 PM
I think there's some things that could be done to attract more people, and I'm not talking about endorsing stupidity.

Simple details like enabling a votemap at the end of the round, and removing the question marks icons, could help. I mention the question marks because new players to the server may feel alienated when they have a "?" by their name and are usually harassed by regulars watching over them all the time. So maybe instead of giving the new guys a question mark, we could give the regulars a different icon. Sort of like Yo-clan does.

A more extreme thing could be deleting the bans list. Before you yell at this suggestion, think that half of the people in that list probably don't even have the game installed anymore. The other half would probably not even notice they have been unbanned. And there's also the chance that people might actually show up (isn't that what we want?). Anyway, the rules would still be the same and thus, if people are still being jerks, they will be banned again.

Bleh, this was kind of a long post. It's just ridiculous to see servers like <BAD> and G4B2S are full 24/7 whereas TG is hardly ever filling up anymore. And as it is, I doubt it will start filling up again, unless suddenly a good number of regulars recover their interest on NS.

The things u describe is why those 2 servers are full 24/7, and for same reason why NS games (non CO) suck 99% of the time on them.

NS is dying on TG cause other games are out, I just bought CoD4.

The idea about giving icons to regulars, and removing '?' marks is indeed good.

lagarto
01-01-2008, 11:44 PM
No Turb, games on those servers suck 99% of the time because they are 30 man servers. NS doesn't work that way at all. And yes, we all know why TGNS is apparently dying, what we're discussing here is how to keep it from dying.

Anyway, back into that other servers thing, I think TGNS is worth saving for the fact alone that it's the only decent USA server to play NS. Probably in the whole damn continent. How so ? well, as far as I know it's the only server that disables blockscripts, that has a reasonable player size, and has a good, consistent ping. Even discarding the high quality community, the server by itself is way ahead of the competition.

That and the fact that competitive NS in America seems pretty much dead, it leaves no room to play NS the way it meant to be played for us. So, is NS dying after all ? LOL FLAYRA KILLED NS. I didn't mean to flavour my post with any drama btw.

tr0gd0r3
01-02-2008, 02:09 AM
And NS 2 could be among us within a year or so... I can barely play games without a community... Sniff... Sniff... I think we should support our hobby.

freebirdpat
01-02-2008, 02:45 AM
And NS 2 could be among us within a year or so... I can barely play games without a community... Sniff... Sniff... I think we should support our hobby.

Duke Nukem Forever will be released before NS 2, and I the prophecy states upon the release of DNF, an apocalypse will take place.

zibalatz
01-02-2008, 05:10 PM
Bans will not be universally, magically repealed for all offenders.

That said, there is very clear information regarding the process that one should go through in order to appeal a ban.

tr0gd0r3
01-02-2008, 10:22 PM
These people don't want to spend time appealing a ban that occured months ago, they want to play a game, and so do I... Whether they deserve to continue playing in TG something an another admin should decide upon a repeat offense. I think the opportunity to increase the community's growth, while at most sacrificing 5 seconds of time, and a line of code to assure those morons are gone for good for the second time is worth the effort.

There's some good people on Jiggly Puff's that are only slightly immature, but could have made a marginal mistake on TG, but paid the price, and at the same time, I think TG sort of paid for it, now no one plays on our server. What's the point in having a community if no one's in it? (Exagerative...)

Let's rethink our policies, try to be a bit more lenient, but maintain a sense of maturity... while preaching it in an appropriate manner to those who come in the server... rather than sending them to a different server permanently...

Could we at least have some sort of vote on this? Any democracy?

Agamemnon
01-02-2008, 11:53 PM
I have also run into a number of decent players on other servers who have been banned from TG (including some who were solid regulars before receiving a ban). I realize that many of these players could get their bans removed by going through the pm process, but for some who didn't experience much of TG before the ban they would have no knowledge that going through that process might be worth it. Given our current difficulties maintaining an adequate playerbase, it might be worth considering issuing temp bans rather than permament bans except in extreme cases, and marking the change in ban frequency with an (almost) universal second chance. I can think of very few offenses where a ban of one month wouldn't be severe enough.

I understand many of these bans were not intended to be permanent, but used as a method to get people to understand why they were removed before they are allowed to return. Unfortunately, the reaction to that approach is often "Oh well, their loss." In many of these cases, never seeing these players again IS our loss, and with the reduced size of our playerbase, these losses are simply becoming too costly.

One other thing worth considering might be a reduction of the amount (or frequency) of ? spam, as this seems to be one of the more frequent complaints of new players to the server. While it may have been reasonable to give that much "encouragement" to register when all but 2-3 players were already regs, it just doesn't make as much sense when the majority of the server are ?'s.

Dr. Pepper PhD.
01-03-2008, 04:14 AM
As a comment on the minor offense, I have never seen a time when someone swore and another said nothing more than language and they apologized and it never happened again.

At the same time the question has been asked about why language is considered inappropriate. I would usually stick up if no one else did and explain the adult gaming community.

I know GB isn't even close to a ban, but I have GB'ed plenty of people that would not refrain from cussing or any other rule, yet every time it was at least 2 minutes of warning(or asking if they have mic sound), before any action was taken.

I would be amazed if anyone was actually "BAM banned" if they let the "f" word slip just once. Repeat offenders are the only bans I have ever witnessed.

As for changing the rules I think that Agy has hit a possible change. Obviously hacking would be a situation for permaban with proper demo submitted to an admin, but for things like cussing, I'm pretty sure that a month away would at least get through the point to them that they needn't swear on our server.

I don't know how possible this is but if you could make like a ban database for past temp bans you could have it send a pm to an admin or someone that there are two bans for like circumstances, or two bans at all for that matter to alert for a longer period.

Turbinator
01-06-2008, 08:20 PM
No Turb, games on those servers suck 99% of the time because they are 30 man servers. NS doesn't work that way at all. And yes, we all know why TGNS is apparently dying, what we're discussing here is how to keep it from dying.

I said reason its dying is because of the new good games that were released, thats all. To keep the server alive well, people will have to get bored with CoD4/crysis/Assasins Creed, etc and will comeback.
This has happened in the past, quiet a few of regulars have played WoW, and those who tried know how addicting it was, and still came back to NS.

In due time people will return, regardless of the progress on NS2.

CoD4 on hardcore has different feel to it then NS, less action, the mode Search & Destroy on our Cod4 server is exactly same thing as Counter strike, plant the bomb on A or B, so my point is, it gets tiresome, since most of us played CS for some time, so CoD4 is different graphics with some cool perks(some overpowered).



it's the only server that disables blockscripts,


That means scripts allowed on the server?

Dr. Pepper PhD.
01-07-2008, 12:07 AM
That means scripts allowed on the server?
It always has, as scripts are not changing the gameplay of it(i.e. hacking) The only assistance that scripts allow it is all stuff that you can do on your own just not necessarily in the order or at the same rate.

xtcmen
01-07-2008, 01:49 AM
TGNS has been the only server (other than NSA VET for like 1 month) that has ever appealed to me. The community is great, and there is competitiveness among most players. Thats why I am sad to say that the game is dieing and deleting your ban.cfg or any other changes you have in mind only delays the inevitable.

This situation is kind of like stage 4 cancer. It slowly kills you, and it is very rare for anyone to overcome it. Chemotherapy and other methods only delay the process.

Maps and Atlases
01-07-2008, 04:41 PM
TGNS has been the only server (other than NSA VET for like 1 month) that has ever appealed to me. The community is great, and there is competitiveness among most players. Thats why I am sad to say that the game is dieing and deleting your ban.cfg or any other changes you have in mind only delays the inevitable.

This situation is kind of like stage 4 cancer. It slowly kills you, and it is very rare for anyone to overcome it. Chemotherapy and other methods only delay the process.

lol

There are a few problems I see here. Not only is NS failing to attract enough new players to support the ones that are leaving, TG isn't bringing in any of the new players that are coming either. There are 3 groups of people that generally play on TG:

1. Newer players, who randomly join when the server has people on it, which is rare.
2. Veterans, who prefer to stay away from TG due to many of the rules they disagree with.
3. TG community members.

The TG community was large enough to keep the server full most of the time a year ago, but due to the lack of new players, the fixed playerbase has been dwindling since. I could go on and on about what rules and settings should be changed, but every time there's always a reason like 'we want mature and intelligent gameplay!' instead of 'we want to bring in new players so we can actually play the game!'.

For example, about a month ago I was playing NS alone with some friends. I don't remember my exact name, but it wasn't a swear or anything very offensive. TG was full, and I used a seed icon to join. I had forgotten to change my name, and couldn't change it because it was in the middle of a game. 5 minutes in, I had someone ask me to change it. I said I was really sorry that I couldn't, and I would change it as soon as possible since I did not want to reconnect (since I had used a seed credit to join). After I said this, Wyzcrack said something sarcastically along the lines of "cry me a river" and kicked me. I have no played there ever since.

It's really this type of attitude thats keeping me and quite a few people I know from playing there anymore. Sure, its your server with your rules: do what you want. I'm just letting you guys know why a large group of people stay away from TG.

Pokerface
01-07-2008, 06:57 PM
lol

There are a few problems I see here. Not only is NS failing to attract enough new players to support the ones that are leaving, TG isn't bringing in any of the new players that are coming either. There are 3 groups of people that generally play on TG:

1. Newer players, who randomly join when the server has people on it, which is rare.
2. Veterans, who prefer to stay away from TG due to many of the rules they disagree with.
3. TG community members.

The TG community was large enough to keep the server full most of the time a year ago, but due to the lack of new players, the fixed playerbase has been dwindling since. I could go on and on about what rules and settings should be changed, but every time there's always a reason like 'we want mature and intelligent gameplay!' instead of 'we want to bring in new players so we can actually play the game!'.

For example, about a month ago I was playing NS alone with some friends. I don't remember my exact name, but it wasn't a swear or anything very offensive. TG was full, and I used a seed icon to join. I had forgotten to change my name, and couldn't change it because it was in the middle of a game. 5 minutes in, I had someone ask me to change it. I said I was really sorry that I couldn't, and I would change it as soon as possible since I did not want to reconnect (since I had used a seed credit to join). After I said this, Wyzcrack said something sarcastically along the lines of "cry me a river" and kicked me. I have no played there ever since.

It's really this type of attitude thats keeping me and quite a few people I know from playing there anymore. Sure, its your server with your rules: do what you want. I'm just letting you guys know why a large group of people stay away from TG.
So we should allow offensive names to persist?

I'm sorry you were kicked, but the reason was pretty clear, was it not?

Maps and Atlases
01-07-2008, 10:48 PM
So we should allow offensive names to persist?

I'm sorry you were kicked, but the reason was pretty clear, was it not?

That's exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. You missed my point entirely: I wasn't talking directly about being angry for kicking me. I stated nicely that I would change it asap, because I couldn't right now and that rejoining would waste my seed credit. Instead of "Okay, since your name isn't blatant racism or anything horribly offensive we can wait 5 minutes so you can change your name and not waste your seed credit", I got "qq pvp server OUR ROOLZ CRY ME A RIVER".

And like I said, I'm not saying I really care, what happened happened and its your server and there's nothing I can do. But its attitude like this that REALLY turns off a lot of people.

xtcmen
01-07-2008, 10:57 PM
It's not Pokerface's, Wyz's, or anyone else's fault. The game is dieing and the server is dieing with it.

lagarto
01-07-2008, 11:57 PM
NS and the server are dying. Sure, but NS still affords to have ~ 70 people in american servers almost all the time. <BAD> and G4B2S are 60 people by themselves, add [I-AM] and some random servers and I think the number I gave is reasonable. However, TG has like .. 0 people almost all the time.

And just as an anecdote similar to Maps', I was kicked once for F4ing as soon as the "Opossing team won" message appeared. It pissed me off since it didn't interfere with what the rule for it specifies (the fact that I F4'ed at that point made no difference whatsoever to the game), but I had to wait in HLTV for about 5 minutes before I could rejoin the server, and late joining a game is not as fun. Sometimes it feels like the admins enforce rules way too prepotently.

But anyway, I think we should probably let go of TGNS until NS2 arrives.

xtcmen
01-08-2008, 12:47 AM
But anyway, I think we should probably let go of TGNS until NS2 arrives.

So basically we should let go of TGNS all together? We should create a TGXBOX360HALO forum instead.

lagarto
01-08-2008, 12:56 AM
Basically, we should let go of this OMGLOLDRAMA all together.

Dr. Pepper PhD.
01-08-2008, 03:42 AM
Wait... has it changed that if you f4 you can change your name then get back into a game?... I mean that would be a way to not use another seed credit.

Granted I know that f4ing isn't legal anyways but would it change game since it will take just as long for another to reconnect?

tr0gd0r3
01-08-2008, 06:01 AM
That's exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. You missed my point entirely: I wasn't talking directly about being angry for kicking me. I stated nicely that I would change it asap, because I couldn't right now and that rejoining would waste my seed credit. Instead of "Okay, since your name isn't blatant racism or anything horribly offensive we can wait 5 minutes so you can change your name and not waste your seed credit", I got "qq pvp server OUR ROOLZ CRY ME A RIVER".

And like I said, I'm not saying I really care, what happened happened and its your server and there's nothing I can do. But its attitude like this that REALLY turns off a lot of people.

I remember when I joined the TG server for the first time and my name was Pornchai (and still is of course).
I was told to change my name because it was offensive, and actually had to convince the admins that the name Pornchai comes from some asian country.
Next time say you're native, and that's your real name.
LzoL@

Anyways, I sympathize for you buddy.

Pokerface
01-08-2008, 07:25 AM
That's exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. You missed my point entirely: I wasn't talking directly about being angry for kicking me. I stated nicely that I would change it asap, because I couldn't right now and that rejoining would waste my seed credit. Instead of "Okay, since your name isn't blatant racism or anything horribly offensive we can wait 5 minutes so you can change your name and not waste your seed credit", I got "qq pvp server OUR ROOLZ CRY ME A RIVER".

And like I said, I'm not saying I really care, what happened happened and its your server and there's nothing I can do. But its attitude like this that REALLY turns off a lot of people.
Either it's the attitude that will turn people off, or the offensive name (or language, or whatever...) that will turn people off. The administration has made its choice, and I'm very sorry to all those who would think that it's the wrong one.

If ever we die, our principles will die with us, and not before.

Donat
01-08-2008, 01:45 PM
Better words were never spoken. Besdies, we all know we'll turn back to TGNS for NS2

tr0gd0r3
01-08-2008, 06:46 PM
I don't know why this community favours principles over fun.
You can't practice these principles if no one comes around anymore...

kormendi
01-09-2008, 12:42 AM
I don't know why this community favours principles over fun.

Apparently you've never played PCS :icon19:

ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!

Rampage
01-09-2008, 08:02 AM
Why does TG favor principle over fun? I disagree with that premise. One does not have to exist without (or in favor of) the other.

Yes, at times the admins can be heavy-handed (I have been a victim of some overzealous "RAMPAGE YOU MUST COMMUNICATE THIS INSTANT" comments) at times. These instances are very rare. But the intent is to keep the quality of play high.

Why have principles and rules if you're just going to treat them as "friendly suggestions?" Here's what is not debatable: the rules are not subject to debate during a match. The problem most ban or kick "victims" fail to grasp is that we're not going to discuss the validity of rules while we're in a game. Bring it to the forums and discuss, or hit the road.

If the community dies, it won't be because TG stuck to its rules -- rules, I'll add, largely discussed and agreed upon by a regular (both supporting and non-supporting) player base. Revisiting of older topics is fine, and sometimes the direction of the rules gets tweaked.

And to tie all that into one neat little package...good admining and adherence to the rules is what makes playing here fun FOR ME. It's the main reason why I'm a supporting member. Because I can get the "friendly suggestions" on any of another hundred servers for free.

As long as the admins are held accountable for their actions, I don't see the problem.

Curlydave
01-10-2008, 01:09 PM
It's TG, not TF.
We will not relax any rules that will dilute the quality of Tactical Gamer's experience.

The lack of a no-swearing rule doesn't dilute anything on the other TG servers and on other mature online communities. It's a rule you'd expect in a population of immature teenagers who can't keep their mouthes shut, and it's not as if removing the rule would suddenly cause players to curse. On the other hand, I doubt it has any real influence on player turnout.

The NS server being inactive doesn't have anything to due with the rules; it has more to do with a dying NS community. NS is a fantastic game, and my best online game experiences come from it, but it's an old game on a long-outdated engine, and people are moving on. The NS development team is rigid and refuses to make improvements to the gameplay. Personally, I've stopped playing because installing Windows Vista introduced new problems. I've always had horrible mouse lag on HL1 engine games, but it got much worse in Vista, and the gamma ramp is broken as well. I've turned mostly to ET:QW. It's a very different experience, but I love it. It doesn't require the intense communication and teamwork seen in NS, but it excels in an area where NS fails: There are a huge amount of workable strategies, and after playing it for months, I'm still finding new ways to surprise enemies, and myself.

kormendi
01-10-2008, 01:44 PM
The lack of a no-swearing rule doesn't dilute anything on the other TG servers

The "no-swearing rule" is community wide and applies to all game servers. (see the "Online Gaming" section of the FAQ (http://www.tacticalgamer.com/faq.php?faq=players_faq#faq_basic_conduct))

Enforcement of said rule is a different story

Turbinator
01-12-2008, 09:19 PM
2. Veterans, who prefer to stay away from TG due to many of the rules they disagree with.



or Veterans who prefer to stay with TG because of those rules that make it a server that it is today and has been since 2003(or even before that).

Most regulars that you have seen say in October, or before that are playing new games that is all.

Last month, before Xmas we had a few games, because I had to PM people on my friend list to ask them to join. ( I am not trying to say I'm the glue that holds our NS server alive, not at all, that is not my point, hope that is clear).

Same thing with what Agamemnon has suggested and it has worked, the TG NS waiting room.

Simply put, people get tired of new games, or NS2 comes out, NS server will be filling up again.

tr0gd0r3
01-13-2008, 01:50 AM
Here's the thing, most new games suck.
I've been playing Company of Heroes, and it's fun and good, but once I'm done the campaign, I need something to go back to.
Team Fortress 2 was fun for about 10 hours... Crysis is fun and all, but I really prefer a community to play in. Maybe it's just me because I got serious into gaming and played in several leagues for CS that I have a hard time enjoying public servers for games anymore because the competition is lacking... TG provides that.
Hopefully people will see this.

Turbinator
01-13-2008, 05:30 AM
Here's the thing, most new games suck.
I've been playing Company of Heroes, and it's fun and good, but once I'm done the campaign, I need something to go back to.
Team Fortress 2 was fun for about 10 hours... Crysis is fun and all, but I really prefer a community to play in. Maybe it's just me because I got serious into gaming and played in several leagues for CS that I have a hard time enjoying public servers for games anymore because the competition is lacking... TG provides that.
Hopefully people will see this.

my point exactly, some games are not exciting, and some simply get too old fast.

However besides you and I, and everyone feels that way. Plus some have xbox360 or ps3, playing mass effect/assassins creed, Metal gear is coming out soon or and GTA 4 heh(this is even a bigger killer :( for TGNS ).

Then AoC/WAR mmo's, lots of games coming down the pipe.
By the look of things NS2 is the only hope, or was it Obi Wan Kenobi.

FireFly
01-13-2008, 06:22 PM
I've started on new job on steady days.... I'm in bed before most ppl would join, like 10:30 usually ppl will try to start up the server well I'm in bed at 9:30... and on weekends I'm with my buddies. If people would play from say 5pm-8pm during the week, I'd be in on that.

Zephyr
01-14-2008, 01:00 AM
I don't know why this community favours principles over fun.
You can't practice these principles if no one comes around anymore...

If no one comes around it is often then the fault of the principles in question rather than something else. Given that the TG core principles have worked for years on NS and have continued to excel in many games since then, I see no reason to conclude that the principles need to be changed, even if it is to save a game that is sadly on its way out.

I came here through NS, and I valued the principles by which TG taught me to play the game. I learned something much more than just how to have fun on the internet with virtual bullets and aliens, I learned how to operate in a community that had a true aim in mind when it sat down collectively at the computer to play an online game. I'd sacrifice that for nothing.

Ever since the latest build of NS, I personally have been convinced its broken and uninteresting to play; I was one of the few who felt that the gaming experiences we had with unchained chambers, a plug-in which permitted all chambers to be built immediately but only one-two-or three upgrades permitted according to hive, years ago was the apex of NS's unique fun factor. I feel that since then the strategy component of NS has been diluted by the repetitious "strats" that can almost always assure victory if followed correctly with decent aim on either side.

What killed NS for me was the end of it being a game where teamwork won the day and instead was where skill trumped even the most unique ideas. We always see DMS or MDS or SDM (the later on rare occasions) and quite frankly I am bored of it. What enticed me, and what I miss the most, was when I had to walk down a hallway and fear an alien coming out at me with 9 different possible upgrades and I could predict absolutely none of them by any strat. Skulks were a force to be reckoned with when they worked in packs (a silence skulk would bite you and then two celerity and one focus would jump into the fray and lay waste to a pack of marines) and a whole game could, on several occasions, be won without a dedicated fade. When you lost a hive, you lost the ability to upgrade multiple abilities rather than being able to hold out and continue to upgrade with non-destroyed chambers, which I always disagreed with. After this ended, and upgrades to sensory chambers by the devs accordingly made reintroducing unchained to be tremendously unbalanced, I jumped ship for new and more creative experiences. Sadly, I've never been able to return and feel satisfied.

All this aside though, I have tremendous faith in NS2 and I do not want to see this offering at TG, which for me has always been its most symbolic offering, to either die or be relaxed from the rules it has followed for so long. I believe in this game and the community that has and continues to surround it, and I think that if you really want to, you all as the players can keep this game alive. It takes more than just a desire though, it takes the dedication to get on there and play the game not for yourself, but for everyone. Use your teamwork, balance the teams, and make the experience enjoyable and unforgettable, because thats what keeps people trudging back to TG servers, and I know it will continue to do so here with the resolve of you all.

-Zephyr

Rampage
01-14-2008, 07:21 AM
My lack of NS participation is due to time more than anything. Being an old guy who has to get up early in the mornings for work, I rarely stay online past 10pm Central. Because I'm a dad, too, I have kids to get to bed. That may not be before 8:30pm. So on weeknights, I have a limited window.

That's all a setup for what I do choose to play on the 2 or 3 nights a week I play; TF2 is a prime candidate because I have several coworker friends playing and I want to participate with them. Then my lovely wife got me Lord of the Rings Online for Christmas without realizing what a gigantic time black hole that game is; I am guilty of becoming obsessed with the title. :)

So there's no time left. This has nothing to do with rules or enforcement, and I'll bet something similar applies to others.

Curlydave
01-15-2008, 02:16 PM
What killed NS for me was the end of it being a game where teamwork won the day and instead was where skill trumped even the most unique ideas. We always see DMS or MDS or SDM (the later on rare occasions) and quite frankly I am bored of it. What enticed me, and what I miss the most, was when I had to walk down a hallway and fear an alien coming out at me with 9 different possible upgrades and I could predict absolutely none of them by any strat. Skulks were a force to be reckoned with when they worked in packs (a silence skulk would bite you and then two celerity and one focus would jump into the fray and lay waste to a pack of marines) and a whole game could, on several occasions, be won without a dedicated fade. When you lost a hive, you lost the ability to upgrade multiple abilities rather than being able to hold out and continue to upgrade with non-destroyed chambers, which I always disagreed with. After this ended, and upgrades to sensory chambers by the devs accordingly made reintroducing unchained to be tremendously unbalanced, I jumped ship for new and more creative experiences. Sadly, I've never been able to return and feel satisfied.


I agree and like I mentioned in my earlier post, it's NS's biggest flaws. There are very few workable strategies, and the same ones are used every game. I'd like to see a game with the intense teamplay and coordination of NS, but with an open-ended amount of useable strategies - That would be simply amazing. Some ways to make this would be more complex maps with many more places to hide, the removal of motion tracking, and a much more complex tech tree for both sides.

Dr. Pepper PhD.
01-17-2008, 10:36 PM
i miss wyz and his elect strat... where you actually sat around and protected the node after you built it til the elect was done

Kerostasis
01-18-2008, 08:44 PM
I vote that the server is dying due to frequent server crashes followed by extreme lag, as opposed to oppressive server rules. Full server on a great game tonight just 10 minutes ago, and server 1 exploded, leaving server 2 running but with 400 ping for everyone. Pretty much killed it.

Map was NS_Lost by the way, if that matters.

Agamemnon
01-19-2008, 12:54 AM
Agreed, we need to get this problem sorted out, it's making it really difficult for those still trying to save the server. The fact that we can still reach a full server after having all these crashes for the past couple of weeks would seem to imply that the interest is still there, and if we could get the technical problems dealt with TGNS could come back.

Is there anyone who has enough knowledge of server stuff that they could figure out what's going wrong if they talk an admin through it? If not, the only thing I can think of to try is reducing the load on the server by removing all plugins and gradually reintroducing them, though that may take a fair amount of some admin's time.

Dead_Meat
01-19-2008, 08:23 AM
i think the server is dying because my mouse is broke
its difficult to play when your left mouse button only works when it wants to.
and of course if i'm not playing then nobody is playing, sure there might be a few people waiting around hoping i play but thier just passing time till i play again.

Pokerface
01-20-2008, 08:42 PM
Agreed, we need to get this problem sorted out, it's making it really difficult for those still trying to save the server. The fact that we can still reach a full server after having all these crashes for the past couple of weeks would seem to imply that the interest is still there, and if we could get the technical problems dealt with TGNS could come back.

Is there anyone who has enough knowledge of server stuff that they could figure out what's going wrong if they talk an admin through it? If not, the only thing I can think of to try is reducing the load on the server by removing all plugins and gradually reintroducing them, though that may take a fair amount of some admin's time.
Hopefully I'll have some time tomorrow, as it's a work holiday (but also a school holiday too... so hedge your bets accordingly).

Take a look at the plugins we're running (they're on the wiki) and post your thoughts -- here or in a new thread -- about which ones are must-haves and which ones we wouldn't miss. I'd like to keep as many as possible of course, but if one (or a combination) of them is the culprit, then we'll either recompile of remove for the time being.

Yer Mom
01-29-2008, 12:11 AM
There's some good people on Jiggly Puff's that are only slightly immature, but could have made a marginal mistake on TG, but paid the price, and at the same time, I think TG sort of paid for it, now no one plays on our server. What's the point in having a community if no one's in it? (Exagerative...)

Simply put, NS is old. I didn't read the rest after I read this.

The community is still strong, they're just elsewhere. The majority of the regulars are playing on the TG servers for TF2. I've played with several there. I've also seen games strike up on occasion.

Saying that NS2 will never come out is a lie. The creators see that the game is old compared to new graphics, and that it's losing popularity fast. They can't complain, as they've kept us for a LONG time, but they realize they have to upgrade.

They're working on it. It'll come eventually. When it does, we'll be there. We'll probably play a few games between now and then. We may even all decide to play every night for a month between now and then.

Either way, we're all elsewhere within TG, I assure you. Maybe you should spread your horizons.

:P

-Mom

aeroripper
01-30-2008, 04:21 AM
I've started on new job on steady days.... I'm in bed before most ppl would join, like 10:30 usually ppl will try to start up the server well I'm in bed at 9:30... and on weekends I'm with my buddies. If people would play from say 5pm-8pm during the week, I'd be in on that.

Yeah I feel that sentiment. Working 2 jobs so by the time I get home I don't have the motivation to get into a good NS game (assuming the server's relatively full). I've been keeping up on NS2 progress though and it seems that its going to be a blast when it does come!

Turbinator
02-01-2008, 06:31 PM
I've been keeping up on NS2 progress though and it seems that its going to be a blast when it does come!

You got a link :)?

aeroripper
02-02-2008, 12:52 AM
You got a link :)?

http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2

Dr. Pepper PhD.
02-02-2008, 01:08 PM
i think the server is dying because my mouse is broke
its difficult to play when your left mouse button only works when it wants to.
and of course if i'm not playing then nobody is playing, sure there might be a few people waiting around hoping i play but thier just passing time till i play again.

PM Me your addy and ill mail you a 5 button mouse that I have extra and laying around. Still works great.

Dead_Meat
02-04-2008, 09:12 AM
PM Me your addy and ill mail you a 5 button mouse that I have extra and laying around. Still works great.

thanks but i just got a new mouse
i also fried my motherboard so i now have a new mobo cpu ram and mouse
everyone needs to get back to playin :P

i've also noticed that the BAD servers are staring to have trouble staying full now to
looks like options are slowing down for NS

Agamemnon
02-04-2008, 12:55 PM
thanks but i just got a new mouse
i also fried my motherboard so i now have a new mobo cpu ram and mouse
everyone needs to get back to playin :P

i've also noticed that the BAD servers are staring to have trouble staying full now to
looks like options are slowing down for NS

I've been seeing enough TGNS exiles on jiggly that I think once the server gets fixed we should be able to repopulate it if we can get the word out that it's functioning again. This, of course, is assuming that it will get fixed at some point, if that doesn't happen then it doesn't really matter how many people want to come back. I actually fairly frequently see jiggly, bad, and guns all completely full, meaning that there is an opportunity there for another server to draw people in. We do in fact tend to get quite a few newcomers whenever we try to populate the server, it's just that most of them don't stay long with the current server lag.

Turbinator
02-07-2008, 09:58 PM
http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2

woot, alien commander mode :D. Nice!!

Something that I always felt was missing from aliens, removes(hopefully) the need for constant communication between aliens in NS1 that is a must.

Yoshi MCF
02-08-2008, 12:15 AM
woot, alien commander mode :D. Nice!!

Something that I always felt was missing from aliens, removes(hopefully) the need for constant communication between aliens in NS1 that is a must.

Really? One of my favorite things about NS1 is the asymmetry. It also fits the setting better to have aliens less centralized in their strategy. I'd rather not see an alien commander.

micr0c0sm
02-09-2008, 08:53 PM
Really? One of my favorite things about NS1 is the asymmetry. It also fits the setting better to have aliens less centralized in their strategy. I'd rather not see an alien commander.

++

Of course unless its an asymmetric implementation. For example, being designated as the commander means that all aliens withen x units of you get some silly bonus - somehow promoting teamwork through a leadership role albiet a very different type of leadership than marines.

Wyzcrak
02-10-2008, 05:25 PM
A lerk, a fade, and an onos walk into a bar, and the bartender says...

Dr. Pepper PhD.
02-11-2008, 03:27 AM
*gulp*

Cain
02-11-2008, 10:26 AM
A lerk, a fade, and an onos walk into a bar, and the bartender says...
LOL walker fade.

Kerostasis
02-11-2008, 08:30 PM
LOL walker fade.

I can't think of a better punchline for that joke... :)

Wyzcrak
02-11-2008, 10:00 PM
Me, neither.

But, then... I'm biased.

Cain
02-13-2008, 04:21 AM
Indeed, credit to the creator.