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Agamemnon
01-21-2008, 02:41 AM
As Poker requested, this is a thread to discuss what plugins we're currently running and which we need to keep. Also helpful would be if there was any way to determine the load each is putting on the server, so we can see which are the really expensive ones. If anyone knows how to do that, speak up. As to which we need to keep, I'll just start it off with the list from the wiki and my opinion on each:

Admin Icons - keep

Alien Upgrade Information - lose it, outdated

STEAM ID PENDING Removal - not sure whether or not we need this

CO Alltalk - I'd be willing to give this up if it helps, but if it has no effect on the server
during NS then keep

DC Nest Block - keep

ExtraLevels2 - keep, we play enough co these days that 10 lvls would be painful

Forums Speak - keep, but look into how much it's using when most of the server is ?

HLTV Listen - I'd be willing to lose this as we no longer do HLTV sessions

Latejoin XP - keep, again we play enough co that I think we need this

Loading CATBUS - lose it

Marine Extra - keep

NS_BHOP Config - lose it

Reserved Slots - keep

Resources Balance - keep

Stripper2 - lose it

Temporary Admins - keep

Wait Join - Either way, I'd be willing to lose this if necessary, but would be nice to keep for
now if it's not a big drain.

Voice_Enable Required - keep

HLTV Hud - for these two, I think the relevant question is whether they are needed for
admin reviews of demos. If you don't need the extra info from this plugin for that, then
I'd say lose it.
HLTV Connect Per Game - keep only if necessary for admin reviews

Commander Eject Announce - keep

Locked Spectate - keep

AMX Tagline - lose it

Goodbye - keep

Territory - lose it if this is still loaded in any way

Server Rules - keep

Points Manager - lose it if this is still loaded in any way

Unstuck - keep

Team Resources Display - lose it, outdated

WhichBot Manager - keep

Bot Level - keep

AMX Auto Demo - lose it

Tooltips - not sure what this does exactly, but from the description I'd be willing to lose it

Auto Gestate - lose it

Captains Games - If it's a big drain when captains isn't on, I'd say lose it. If it doesn't do anything until someone issues the captains command, then keep it.

Rate Check - keep

Conspicuously absent from the wiki list was the Balance plugin, which I'd like to keep if we can figure out what was changed last month and reverse it. Based on all the one-sided games tonight from amx_random, I really wouldn't want to see that become the only option.

TheFeniX
01-21-2008, 04:11 PM
The removal of the catbus loading song is a sad...sad.. day for this old-school NS player.

Pokerface
01-21-2008, 11:36 PM
To my knowledge, nothing has been edited on the server with regard to the balance plugin.
I'll verify that the outdated stuff is off; it might just be that the wiki needs a good beating.

mr. pie
01-22-2008, 06:42 PM
Keep
Admin Icons - Useful
Reserved Slots - Vital
Unstuck - Vital
Temporary Admins - Vital
Goodbye - Vital
Server Rules - Vital

Resources Balance - Very useful
Wait Join - I think it's better with it than without, helps prevent stacking
Balance/Random Plugin - Very useful
DC Nest Block - Somewhat useful, not entirely necessary
Voice_Enable Required - Communication is imporant
Locked Spectate - Not sure if this is a plugin or just a .cfg setting, but it keeps things fair.
Commander Eject Announce - Marginally useful
Captains Games - It's really nice to at least have them as an option
Rate Check - Useful to prevent people abusing screwed up rates.

ExtraLevels2 - Makes co_ less painful
Latejoin XP - Makes co_ less painful
CO Alltalk - Makes co_ less painful

Don't Keep
Alien Upgrade Information - Outdated, unnecessary
Loading CATBUS - Unnecessary
NS_BHOP Config - Unnecessary
Stripper2 - Unnecessary
AMX Tagline - Unnecessary
Territory - wiki says it's already disabled anyways
Points Manager - Outdated, unnecessary
Team Resources Display - Outdated, unnecessary
AMX Auto Demo - Unecessary, I used it though
Auto Gestate - Unecessary, doesn't add aynthing
Forums Speak - If this is the thing show recent forum topics, it's 100% useless. If it is what always reminds you about checking NS as an active game it's really annoying and useless, too.

Not Sure
STEAM ID PENDING Removal - Does this do anything?
Tooltips - Never seen an admin use this.
Marine Extra - If this does anything, it's not much.
WhichBot Manager - I don't find bots fun at all
Bot Level - I don't find bots fun at all
HLTV Listen - Not overly useful, people are rarely in htlv
HLTV Hud - It's nice, but how often are people on hltv anymore?
HLTV Connect Per Game - This is only important for admin reviews, so it's up to them




Are the Natural Selection servers still hosted on their own box, or are they shared with new games or something now? It doesn't really make sense that the plugins by themselves are the problem when they haven't undergone any real change.

Pokerface
01-22-2008, 06:52 PM
Keep
Admin Icons - Useful
Reserved Slots - Vital
Unstuck - Vital
Temporary Admins - Vital
Goodbye - Vital
Server Rules - Vital

Resources Balance - Very useful
Wait Join - I think it's better with it than without, helps prevent stacking
Balance/Random Plugin - Very useful
DC Nest Block - Somewhat useful, not entirely necessary
Voice_Enable Required - Communication is imporant
Locked Spectate - Not sure if this is a plugin or just a .cfg setting, but it keeps things fair.
Commander Eject Announce - Marginally useful
Captains Games - It's really nice to at least have them as an option
Rate Check - Useful to prevent people abusing screwed up rates.

ExtraLevels2 - Makes co_ less painful
Latejoin XP - Makes co_ less painful
CO Alltalk - Makes co_ less painful

Don't Keep
Alien Upgrade Information - Outdated, unnecessary
Loading CATBUS - Unnecessary
NS_BHOP Config - Unnecessary
Stripper2 - Unnecessary
AMX Tagline - Unnecessary
Territory - wiki says it's already disabled anyways
Points Manager - Outdated, unnecessary
Team Resources Display - Outdated, unnecessary
AMX Auto Demo - Unecessary, I used it though
Auto Gestate - Unecessary, doesn't add aynthing
Forums Speak - If this is the thing show recent forum topics, it's 100% useless. If it is what always reminds you about checking NS as an active game it's really annoying and useless, too.

Not Sure
STEAM ID PENDING Removal - Does this do anything?
Tooltips - Never seen an admin use this.
Marine Extra - If this does anything, it's not much.
WhichBot Manager - I don't find bots fun at all
Bot Level - I don't find bots fun at all
HLTV Listen - Not overly useful, people are rarely in htlv
HLTV Hud - It's nice, but how often are people on hltv anymore?
HLTV Connect Per Game - This is only important for admin reviews, so it's up to them




Are the Natural Selection servers still hosted on their own box, or are they shared with new games or something now? It doesn't really make sense that the plugins by themselves are the problem when they haven't undergone any real change.
NS is its own box (for the time being).

mr. pie
01-22-2008, 07:21 PM
Could it be a problem at the Planet? My latency is in the 40 range now compared to the 15-20 average I used to get. I'm not sure how much server load from plugins could effect that.

Also, the plugin list is obviously lacking some stuff since it doesn't include the co_ respawn plugin that is on the server, unless that is included with the extra levels.

Agamemnon
01-23-2008, 03:09 AM
Don't Keep
Alien Upgrade Information - Outdated, unnecessary
Loading CATBUS - Unnecessary
NS_BHOP Config - Unnecessary
Stripper2 - Unnecessary
AMX Tagline - Unnecessary
Territory - wiki says it's already disabled anyways
Points Manager - Outdated, unnecessary
Team Resources Display - Outdated, unnecessary
AMX Auto Demo - Unecessary, I used it though
Auto Gestate - Unecessary, doesn't add aynthing
Forums Speak - If this is the thing show recent forum topics, it's 100% useless. If it is what always reminds you about checking NS as an active game it's really annoying and useless, too.

Not Sure
STEAM ID PENDING Removal - Does this do anything?
Tooltips - Never seen an admin use this.
Marine Extra - If this does anything, it's not much.
WhichBot Manager - I don't find bots fun at all
Bot Level - I don't find bots fun at all
HLTV Listen - Not overly useful, people are rarely in htlv
HLTV Hud - It's nice, but how often are people on hltv anymore?
HLTV Connect Per Game - This is only important for admin reviews, so it's up to them



From this post, I just wanted to address three things. First, from the description I think Forums Speak is what sends all the text ?'s see. To me, this makes it a possible culprit for increased lag because of the increased proportion of ?'s we have nowadays, but I would not want to get rid of it entirely, or we wouldn't get new people ever reading the primer.

Second, Marine Extra seems to be what we generally refer to as Oddman, meaning this is what causes the extra player to join marines. If you've played much on other servers, you've probably frequently seen the extra go aliens, which tends to wreck games. On TG, we would still eventually get the extra to rines, but it might wind up being someone other than the new joiner, and will always cause extra headache. I think if we gave this up we'd be screaming for its return within a week.

Lastly, as to the two bot plugins, I have to address this same question to anyone who wants to remove them: how often are you the first person on the server? I don't enjoy bots either, but it gets people to join faster (because the population appears higher), and it's better than staring at the wall in the readyroom. Essentially, giving these up will mean you see a full server less often, regardless of how often you personally use them. Also, I would assume it only affects the server during co, and therefore shouldn't be causing lag during NS (I would hope).

So unfortunately, I've just argued in favor of keeping all three, which won't help reduce the lag at all. We may need to make some painful sacrifices to get this fixed, I just want to make sure we understand what we're giving up beforehand, since we might not be able to get these changes reversed anytime soon.

Agamemnon
01-28-2008, 07:48 PM
So I guess Marine Extra (Oddman) has been removed, does that mean a large group has disappeared and that was the only one noticeable? Or is it still there and just suddenly buggy?

Slayer of Hippies
01-30-2008, 11:39 PM
I was told to post here by Agamemnon, so here it is.

Start with no plugins except an auto-launched rules plugin which reads: "We're streamlining the server plugins to help fix hit-registration and server responsiveness, post on the forums at .... with suggestions if you'd like to see some added. Requesting xmenu will result in a professional iceman being hired on your behalf."

Maybe keep /stuck and reserved slots to start with, and if you think it's necessary, the one that keeps people from DC nesting although it should be superfluous with the level of interactivity required on TG.