Dear France: If it wasn't for our help you would be speaking German right now

[Delta*RandyShugart*]

Remember those who fought for freedom and who died trying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VE_Day

[Razcsak]

More likely, they'd be speaking Russian and the Cold War would have been very different. Could you admire VE day and those who fought for freedom without being randomly jingoist and anti-Gallic?

[ThaDoctah]

It's a good thing you're not prolonging the view that a small clique of Americans are still egotistical and pretentious with respect to their country's involvement in WWII.

While VE day is good to celebrate, the means you decided to employ for a universal reminder was unnecessary. Poor form sir, 4.6 on the dismount.

[=DdogG=]

isn't it funny how everyone was dogging France at the start of the latest Iraq conflict, and now, we are so quick to defend? I remember dozens of threads (and one I believe that had this same article.. or a close relative of it) where we as a community took the opportunity to bash France daily.

I wonder if - after the next president royally screws the planet - we will be defending GW.

Today: Bush sucks!!!
3 years: I am glad we now have a president who is able to save us from hurricanes, but he sucks at preventing earthquakes.
What were we thinking wanting an immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq. Look what [current screw up that everyone thought would be the anti-bush - savior of the US] did by pulling out... Bush was right.

now, I am not condoning or condemning any actions by anyone, but maybe temperance on both sides of the events would do us all some good.

[thedogwarrior]

Have you been hurt or offended in some way by a Frenchman, or dumped by a French chick?

Just because they're incredibly protective of "their" culture and language, and for the most part they (or rather, their leaders) opposed most US foreign policy "efforts" for the last 50ish years or so - I don't any reason to claim that that we "saved" them back in WWII, that we're owed some evidence of gratefulness that we haven't received. Besides, not including the Vichy French, the French Underground was a damn fine group of patriots, and brave as hell in the effort to free France.

We didn't particularly do it to save the French, or even the English. Our effort in WWII was to fight for the cause of freedom around the whole world, as Hitler was well on his way to conquering a good bit of it by the time we got into it. An isolationist US, with Hitler ruling Europe and Russia to the East, and Japan controlling the Pacific/Far East to the west, would have been a lonely place.

Conversely, by your statement, should we send similarly themed messages of apology to Vietnam, as we participated in wreaking havoc on their country, in the process losing 50,000+ or our forces, in a misguided effort to thwart the dreaded "domino fall" of countries to the Communist menace?

[Razcsak]

Originally Posted by =DdogG=

isn't it funny how everyone was dogging France at the start of the latest Iraq conflict, and now, we are so quick to defend? I remember dozens of threads (and one I believe that had this same article.. or a close relative of it) where we as a community took the opportunity to bash France daily.

And had I been here, I would have had the same opinion that I do now. Of course, having that opinion got me called "traitor" a lot in school, but hey, nationalism's great! And who doesn't like making fun of this silly French. LoL. :|
edit2: It is nice that political opinion has changed enough that saying "hey, maybe we shouldn't go invade this country for little reason" or getting annoyed when people make fun of the French (or any other countries that didn't support the invasion) no longer automatically makes me a pariah.

edit: Dogwarrior: It is my opinion that the main reason we invaded mainland Europe was to prevent the Soviets from taking it all. By the time of D-Day, the Soviet counterattack was well into Poland and going strong. The US' main contribution to the war was in the form of Lend-Lease.

[Augustus Gloop]

Perhaps if it wasn't for The Marquis de Lafayette, we'd still be a British colony. So maybe we're even?

[thedogwarrior]

Originally Posted by Razcsak

edit: Dogwarrior: It is my opinion that the main reason we invaded mainland Europe was to prevent the Soviets from taking it all. By the time of D-Day, the Soviet counterattack was well into Poland and going strong. The US' main contribution to the war was in the form of Lend-Lease.

Point conceded, on second thought I'd say you're correct in that a future Soviet-controlled Eurpore was the primary reason as well.

A shame we wound up "giving" the Soviets half the real estate in the end, but I'm sure not many people felt like another 3-4-5 (10?) years of war to push the Russians back toward the Motherland. A few more years of hot war, with us the only ones holding the "big stick" - and there wouldn't have been a Cold War.

Now THERE is a good scenario for an alternate history novel.

[Vortex421]

For four days following Pearl Harbor the US and Germany remained neutral towards each other. Oh yes, we were sending supplies to Russia and to Great Britain to assist in the war cause, but no declaration of war or state of war existed between the US and Germany until Germany declared war on the US on December 11, 1941. In point of fact, it seemed rather unlikely that the US would have entered the war in Europe for at least several years until the Japanese were contained.

Just something interesting to think about that war.

[Shurikane]

You know, I was gonna do a sensible, professional and argumentative speech... then I remembered that we, Canada, once managed to destroy the American UCB.

[Augustus Gloop]

Originally Posted by Shurikane

You know, I was gonna do a sensible, professional and argumentative speech... then I remembered that we, Canada, once managed to destroy the American UCB.

You jerks are lucky the admins didn't catch you!

[ionpig-A]

+rep General Lafayette

from Washington to Congress of November 1, 1777, in which he said: "The Marquis de Lafayette is extremely solicitous of having a command equal to his rank. I do not know in what light Congress will view the matter, but it appears to me, from a consideration of his illustrious and, important connections, the attachment which he has manifested for our cause, and the consequences which his return in disgust might produce, that it will be advisable to gratify his wishes, and the more so as several gentlemen from France who came over under some assurances have gone back disappointed in their expectations. His conduct with respect to them stands in a favourable point of view—having interested himself to remove their uneasiness and urged the impropriety of their making any unfavourable representations upon their arrival at home. Besides, he is sensible, discreet in his manners, has made great proficiency in our language, and from the disposition he discovered at the battle of Brandywine possesses a large share of bravery and military ardour."

Darn you Gloop for beating me to that one.

p.s. Vive La France!

[Augustus Gloop]

Originally Posted by ionpig-A

+rep General Lafayette

from Washington to Congress of November 1, 1777, in which he said: "The Marquis de Lafayette is extremely solicitous of having a command equal to his rank. I do not know in what light Congress will view the matter, but it appears to me, from a consideration of his illustrious and, important connections, the attachment which he has manifested for our cause, and the consequences which his return in disgust might produce, that it will be advisable to gratify his wishes, and the more so as several gentlemen from France who came over under some assurances have gone back disappointed in their expectations. His conduct with respect to them stands in a favourable point of view—having interested himself to remove their uneasiness and urged the impropriety of their making any unfavourable representations upon their arrival at home. Besides, he is sensible, discreet in his manners, has made great proficiency in our language, and from the disposition he discovered at the battle of Brandywine possesses a large share of bravery and military ardour."

Darn you Gloop for beating me to that one.

p.s. Vive La France!

n the first months of 1778, Lafayette commanded troops detailed for the projected expedition against Canada. After that plan was aborted, Lafayette participated in the campaign in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, where he was commended for his retreat from Barren Hill (May 28, 1778), and fought at the Battle of Monmouth (June 28). He received from Congress a formal recognition of his services in the Rhode Island expedition (August 1778).

After about six months of plotting, diverting (with John Paul Jones) and distracting the British from France, he returned to America, again serving as major-general at ~21 years old. From April until October 1781, he was charged with the defense of Virginia, where he showed his zeal by borrowing money on his own account to provide his soldiers with necessaries. Washington commended him for doing all that was possible with the forces at his disposal. In the siege of Yorktown, Lafayette bore an honorable if not a distinguished part.

[thedogwarrior]

Don't think I'd ever heard that. Very interesting...

[Switch]

I'd just like to point out that if it wasn't for the frensh we'd still be English over here in the USA.

--edit... scrolling up I see some may have already pointed that out.