To vehicle or not to vehicle

[Zhohar]

As many of you have noticed, the 1.5 patch has brought us the "No Vehicles" (NV) option into gameplay. The function does indeed follow the name -- essentially, no armor spawns on the map. Not even the buggies.

This thread is to discuss which maps should have their vehicles removed. Please state why you'd like a map to be armor free.

My opinions:
- Very large maps such as Shuhia, Tampa, Sidi, and Suez (the 32p+ versions of these maps anyways) should remain armored as the walking distance between flags is abnormally large -- walking for five minutes on Sidi would get very old, very fast.
- Infantry-focused maps like Cerbere, Gibraltar, and Tunis ought to remain as they are because armor plays a crucial role in the tactics that have evolved on the map. For example, the dreaded Toll Station buggy rush by the PAC -- things like that are a valid, fun, and well-known tactic and I wouldn't like to see that limited by the game mode.
- Maps like Berlin literally allow 3-4 focused people in the APC and Walker to make PAC breakthrough abnormally hard. PAC breakthrough should be hard, yes, Conquest Assault cruxes on this, but not that difficult. Once EU gains a proper foothold with the armor, well .. we've all seen the almost stat-padding like APC screenshots that are possible with an APC on Berlin -- no one finds that fun. The APC (and the walker to a lesser extent) has no place on Berlin.

What other maps do you think should be armor-free? Why?

*Edit*
Complete list of "No Vehicle" maps:

• Belgrade
• Camp Gibraltar
• Cerbere Landing
• Fall of Berlin
• Minsk
• Operation Shingle
• Shuhia Taiba
• Sidi Power Plant
• Suez Canal
• Tunis Harbor
• Verdun

[Anospa]

I'd actually love to see Infantry only on 16p Minsk and Highway Tampa.

[Lorax74]

I'm not overly excited to see any of the infantry centric maps without vehicles, but the armor maps would be sweet.

I would love to play Sidi Power Plant and Suez Canal without vehicles, those can be intense fun with lots of room to setup flanking manuevers, etc.

On second thought, Fall of Berlin might be neat to try without armor. No APC or walker might force EU to be a bit more cautious with it's defense on the rear flags.

[Shurikane]

Fall of Berlin and Operation Shingle are the only two maps on which I see IO mode being possible and enjoyable. FoB because it'll take away from the fact that vehicles tend to make the law on this map, and OS because I believe that it will give a certain new dimension to a map that's already full of cover spots and other infantry-friendly places.

I suggest against using IO mode on head-on maps, as I've personally gotten fed up very, very quickly playing this style. On these maps, once one team gains the advantage, the game is pretty much over from the get-go and the remaining tickets are an agony to watch trickling down.

[Razcsak]

I think that IO on some of the larger vehicle based maps would be very, very different from the normal style of play. Instead of massed infantry supported by armor, you'd see carefully (well, hopefully) planned attacks more similar to PoE2. On most infantry-standard maps, the armor isn't a pervasive feature of the map. Instead, you have the one walker on, say, Tunis, which can lay down the hurt and turn the tide, but the focus is on infantry. Those maps are small. A focus on infantry in a large map would make for an entirely different game, one that I am interested in trying.

[Lorax74]

During one of the BFCL seasons we played Suez Cannal and Sidi as infantry only (no FAVs either) and I have to say, they were a blast. Suez Cannal is very linear but wide enough to flank, sneak, etc. Sidi was also a lot of fun infantry only, it took a while to get to the first flag, but once there the fight to control the bleed is intense.

[sc1ence]

I would think Berlin is the major candidate for vehicle removal. The other maps have some potential. But on Berlin, it changes things completely.

[Lyramion]

Berlin Inf Only was a blast yesterday. Maps like Tunis live of buggys.

The other 2 big candidates are 16 Verdun and 16 Minsk on Inf Only in my oppinion

[sc1ence]

Originally Posted by Lyramion

Berlin Inf Only was a blast yesterday.

I to just loved that one. It felt so strange at first, then once you realized you did not have armor to deal with it became a ferocious close fight. I had just an incredible round.

If we run no vehicle versions we will probably run a vehicle version to balance it out in the rotation.

[Exploding_Silver]

Originally Posted by sc1ence

I to just loved that one. It felt so strange at first, then once you realized you did not have armor to deal with it became a ferocious close fight. I had just an incredible round.

If we run no vehicle versions we will probably run a vehicle version to balance it out in the rotation.

tactics changed too, it was less about quick movement to gain tactical advantage and avoid the apc
its more about steady forward progress and killing them better than they kill you, I had a squad of all medics and just stuck together. Also smoke becomes a better tactical weapon.

[pred011586]

I tried using one of my normal strategies at the very beginning of the game on Berlin as PAC, figuring it'd be even easier without having to deal with the EU APC... Only to have my squad consistantly wiped to the point where they all left to join another squad because they kept dieing when they spawned in. I didn't even realize how often they were dieing because I only died once the whole time, but it was apparently alot worse than I thought because it's the one and only time I've had people leave my squad over consistant dieing.

Turns out, the plan I had relied heavily on our APC keeping the EU troops behind cover, looks like I'm heading back to the drawing board to come up with something else now. =)

[Jimmy Jammer]

I think any map with no vehicles carries its own set of new tactics and game play. It forces players and squads to have good gun skills and not rely on vehicle weaponry for a tactical advantage. It would come down to SL/SM being able to execute with precision and also be able to be flexible more so than on the current maps. I think that it would be interesting to have a map with vehicles that can only transport and be weapons nurtured. It would be like WWII and basic jeeps and deuce and a halves. Just move troops...JJ

[Zhohar]

I second Lyra's comment about 16-player Verdun with No Vehicles. I would love to see it in the main rotation. From BFCL (which was Infantry Only), it is extremely fun.

[big-eye101]

Originally Posted by Zhohar

I second Lyra's comment about 16-player Verdun with No Vehicles. I would love to see it in the main rotation. From BFCL (which was Infantry Only), it is extremely fun.

Yeah that would be great fun! We had 16p Verdun Inf.Only during shockwave and that game was awesome!

[Rasta-GR]

To vehicle!

BF2142 is a vehicle rich game.

DICE has put vehicles on all the maps and vehicles are core elements of the game design.

It is the way it is designed to be played... with vehicles.

The experience to use multiple vehicles during a battle is just awesome.

So why the need to remove them?

I agree with all the others that say: "we will have new tactical elements in maps without them, and will be fun".

Yes, I agree, it is fun and new tactics could emerge.

But in the same logic, we can start discussing:

What about No Commander, No Orbital, No SL Beacons, No UAV, Tickets change, etc., the list is endless.

And all the above could be fun and could open "new tactical elements".

I suggest, if we like it without vehicles, we can do special events: scrims, No Vechicle day, No Vechicle maps in the rotation, etc.

But please, do not remove vehicles from the map rotation of the main server.

In my opinion, the core gameplay elements on the primary server sould not be moderated / altered / tweaked.

We can use these tweaks / moderations / alterations on the second server, or on special events as I mentioned above.

Regards,