Titan UCB area revisisted.

[Lorax74]

Alright, titan has had sufficient amount of time in the rotation now that we can start addressing issues with the mode and our rules.

The primary thing we want to look at is the UCB and how we want to treat that area in regards to titan mode. There are a few things we looked at when started our discussion in the admin forums:

• It is an uncapturable spawn point
• The commander assets are there
• Armor spawns there, most notable is the APC.

Initially we decided to have this area off limits to the opposing team, but that made Titan assaults very difficult, especially if titan movement was off or the titan was not moved. This is great for the defending team, but not so much for the assaulting team that worked hard on knocking the other teams shields down to nothing.

Then we thought, let's not enforce any UCB rules on this area and open it up for everyone. This has it advantages and disadvantages, but we fear it will invite spawn camping.

So, we have looked at each scenario and come to this conclusion:

The UCB and its contents area is off limits for the entirety of the round. The only exceptions to this rule will be as follows:

• Asset destruction runs following the same rules outlined in normal conquest mode are allowed
• The APC may be "stolen" from the hostile UCB once the hostile titan's shields go down.

The first bullet is self explanatory and is defined in the rules. The second bullet is new and only pertains to Titan mode.

Let me clarify the second bullet point a bit further, this only pertains to the hostile titan's shields, not yours. If the hostile titan's shields are still up and your shields go down, you may not steal their APC in anticipation of them using it against your now shield less titan.

What we don't want to see happen: Sitting in a hostile UCB waiting for shields to drop. If the shields are still up and you are not part of an asset destruction squad actively destroying assets, then you have no business being in that UCB.


Please use this thread to discuss this new rule, it's impact on the game as you see it and any suggestions you may have in regards to this rule.

[Gamidragon]

Makes 100% sense to me. Enforce the same rules when enemy titan shields are up, exceptions go in place when they go down. The only thing I could see happening is someone "guarding a stolen APC" in the UCB and camping kills. =/

[DrBeat]

I completely agree with the current rule. It makes sense, but keeps Titan assault in mind.

[machowner]

I don't really see how this would help. Take for instance the fact that tanks also spawn in the that area. Say I run a FAV into the area to steal the APC in order to assault the titan. Enemy players spawns with the intent of jumping in a tank to destroy the APC I am in. Following the "wait to be shot at" rule, we are not allowed to destroy that soldier with the APC mortar until we know his intent. By that time though he has already gotten a free shell into the side the APC and also is now in the tank, of which the APC is useless against.

In my opinion this area should be treated the same as a spawning on a beacon. In other words you are not protected and spawning there is your choice. There is clearly a safe spot to spawn, that being the titan deck with its own ground defenses, the titan guns. If someone makes the choice to spawn on the ground in a titan match then the normal spawn camping (NOT UCB) rules should protect them from being spawn killed.

If someone feels that there just has to be a UCB rule regarding titan then perhaps it should be treated similar to assault lines. Whenever the titan shields go down the area is no longer protected. This would be the best of both worlds. The defenders would be protected until their shields go down and the offensive players would be able to secure the ground under the titan.

[MisticX]

i am somehow disagreeing with lorax, and agreeing with mech

i mean, the enemy has at least 1 secure spawn point during the whole round, and they can easily pod down form the titan (or even better jump)

-- i would tactically occupy the area under a titan (75% of the cases the here-discussed assets base) in order to assure a swift occupation of the APC and anti titan weapons.
-- furthermore i'd mine all the vehicles that are there, to make sure such assets do not get into the enemy hands.
-- a swift titan attack can in very many cases win the round.
-- 1 good squad could keep busy 2 squads in that area while the rest of the alies can take silos or defend properly silos ...
-- not to mention if you have 2 SAAW boys undercover and put down that gunship every time it leaves, and from doing such rid the sky from enemies.

in one phrase, enemy domination of the own assets base, specialy if under the titan, can be a VERY painful thing.

so ... i suggest that such a rule is not enforced.
in my opinion that would kill a very sweet aspect of the gameplay

[DaBrit]

I would like to place my support behind the rule as it is stated above. Stealing armor from UCBs can be pretty game-breaking, and shouldn't give a player a significant advantage. Having to worry about getting shot at by tanks in the APC you just stole from the enemy team is a risk you have to take for not driving your own APC to somewhere safer.

[DrakenViator]

Well first impression is good. The rule as stated makes sense and is clear and easy to follow. That and since titan movement is in place this rule is only going to be used in about half the matches. However I also agree that the 'do not fire until fired upon' rule for the UCB is going to be hard to follow under this guideline. I also do admit that there is a need to give teams easy access to armor to make for a better game play.

All of this said, I would say that the bases be treated as locked base similar to how a base is locked in an assault lines map where as the base 'unlocks' when the corresponding titan shields drop. However like machowner has said we should unlock everything not just the APC.

Now I'm sure that you guys have already considered this option, and I know that the admins at |TG| have far more game experience then myself when it comes to this game and how to make things fair and balanced. Thus I offer my two cents and at the same time admit that you guys are probably right.

~ Draken

[Lyramion]

I think the rule may disturb the gameflow a bit. After all people in Titanmode ALWAYS have a safe spawnpoint - and that is the Titan. After the shields go down the UCB could become completely "Unlocked".

[TOOmuchMcLovin]

position on...

mine "camping" hostile uncap apc/armor units to prevent deployment?
gunship stalking the enemy titan? sitting in titan blind spot to chase air assets?
going into ucb n spamming aa?

just bringing to light

[Lorax74]

Originally Posted by TOOmuchMcLovin

position on...

mine "camping" hostile uncap apc/armor units to prevent deployment?
gunship stalking the enemy titan? sitting in titan blind spot to chase air assets?
going into ucb n spamming aa?

just bringing to light

Can you please elaborate? Are you asking the admin's position on this, the communities, what? And if you are asking, why not provide your position. Give and take.

Also, shorting the word "and" to "n" is really annoying, I encourage everyone that does this and similar to fight the urge, please.

[ionpig-A]

Humbly submitted for your consideration:

The Titan and it's associated ground spawn point are a single entity.

An attacking team should consider the titan's shields to extend beyond the Titan to include the associated ground based spawn point.

At the moment a Titan loses it's shield an attacking team can enter the Titan.

Because the Titan is now open to attack the associated ground based spawn point is open as well.

It has transformed from a UCB to a Capturable Base just as the Titan itself can now be "captured" with the destruction of four panels and a reactor.

[Thesleeper01]

I think that having the titan base as a noncap is going to bring about a move your titan back and protect your base strat. Spawn as an engineer see the APC calmly walk up to an empty tank fire a pilum and then jump in for the second shot or just stand in the entrance to the UBC dropping motion mines. your not attacking them so they can not fire back.

If your in an APC driving to the back of the titan but not in the base and an eng standing by 2 guys that did not fire at you fires a pilum at your APC, can you then hit the guy with the mortars killing all 3. What if you’re in a tank protecting the APC and a tank fires on it with people standing around the enemy tank?

I think that these rules work fine if the titan is not on or near their base. If it is though then it will change balance away from assaulting towards silo defense. Not the end of the world but it is also not the dual threat that titan mode presidents.

[TOOmuchMcLovin]

Originally Posted by TOOmuchMcLovin

position on...

mine "camping" hostile uncap apc/armor units to prevent deployment?
gunship stalking the enemy titan? sitting in titan blind spot to chase air assets?
going into ucb n spamming aa?

just bringing to light

These are all tactics i found useful on titan servers, or saw on titan servers.

I'm asking oppinion from everyone and, since as usual the admins rules are following communities general oppinion, I guess its up to you guys.


Mine camping, one tactic i've seen used alot is mining up the enemy uncap to prevent apc/armor deplyment.

Gunship stalking, I like to hover in the the titan blindspots and intercept gunships and transports as they attempt to leave the titan

AA spaming the titan, this comes in two forms 1:Using stationary aa guns against hostile titan in or just in front of titan preventing Titan guns from repairing and air from leaving titan. (This actually isn't bad, because its not very hard to pod down and kill the offender, or move titan)
2:When titans get within pod range to assault each other, people will sit in friendly titan and spam the hostile titan, preventing any launches, killing anyone podding on top to defend,since the AA guns can't kill each other theres really no true way to defend or deal with this plus its just plain annoying. I personally order sl's to tell their guys no aa spam from this way, selective shooting down of enemy craft leaving titan is one thing, but simply holding the fire button for 10 minutes is just not needed. Yesterday I had a squad of 2 spamming for 10 minutes str8, not one break in fire, they ended up kicked for not following orders.

[Smachin007]

I have to agree with Mach. If it were treated as an unlockable base, such as in assault lines, I think it would solve the problem. As has been stated, the titan is always a spawn point throughout the round, and if you use the ground defense guns on the titan, you can clear out the bottom base rather easily with a little time. I know when I'm playing on a titan map, when my teams shields go down I try to clear the ground underneath the titan just as quickly as I clear the titan itself.

[Reader1234]

Quote:
The UCB and its contents area is off limits for the entirety of the round. The only exceptions to this rule will be as follows:
Asset destruction runs following the same rules outlined in normal conquest mode are allowed.
The APC may be "stolen" from the hostile UCB once the hostile titan's shields go down.

I like this option. After the shields are down the APC in the UCB will act in a sense as another SILO. Requiring the team without Titan shields to defend their APC or assign someone to keep it out of play.