View Full Version : Frustration on Alpha last night.

01-31-2012, 08:42 AM
Hello TG.

Last night on Alpha, we had an outstanding team experience which, unfortunately, was cut short by the completion of a member who joined late, did not communicate with the team members already in play, and completed the objective before we had the time to execute. This individual did not listen to command or the rest of the players on at the time. We had spent quite a bit of time setting up our strategy, and all members who contributed did an excellent job.

Two things happened.

1. What took around 2 hours or so to setup, plan, and position was destroyed by one new member who joined our server who did not know or did not care about our communication methods after acknowledging he could hear us, and ran straight up the center, commando style, grabbed what we needed from the Enemy AO and made a B-line out to extraction. I'm going to err on the benefit of the doubt and assume he never played in a strategy/tactical based and team controlled setting. That's fine, it's Alpha, we're trying to get more members to play.

2. When we landed at the carrier and did our AAR, I decided to try to discuss the matter in a group setting so the individual would not be singled out, but he would not join us. We were standing in a group reviewing the end of the mission, and he was at the ammo box, asking if he could grab a helicopter and go back to the dead enemy AO. At that point, I shifted gears and, after a quick complement to the team, explained to him in strong, but Not insulting terms, that TG is a foundation of members who enjoy the collective immersion and experience of ARMA2. Had he not blatantly ignored us, I do not think I would have been so upset, but in our world that is a sign of disrespect and it disturbed me. Suffice to say, I was a bit strong in my inferences and may have stepped over the line.

The bottom line here, and the lesson that should be learned on my part is two part.

1. As frustrated as I and my team members were with this individual, I should not have dressed him down in front of everyone. And while I did my best to keep my rhetoric in a neutral and informative manner, I did let my frustration out in the tone of my voice and the points I made. This should have been something for the Admins to handle and not a single player. I Did Not Insult or Berate this individual.

2. I'm a Bravo player. And last night when I came down to Alpha, I made some passive comments about people trying the Bravo server and it was taken insensitively by one of the Alpha TG regulars. And when I say insensitive, I mean on my part. For me to join the server that serves as the recruiting environment and then start soliciting a different server, even if from the same clan, is not good form.

I wanted to clear up any misunderstandings, show that I don't think I'm better at managing the frustrations of our members than the admins, and try to provide others with an example of what can occasionally happen in TG games when new members and veteran members are put in the same environment. Sometimes these things happen. And even though that player did not listen to us, questioned and disregarded our requests/orders, and did not respond to the AAR, I should have been more diligent and composed in my response and handling of the situation.

I responded as if I was on Bravo, I need to remember that is not always the case and there is a time and a place for venting frustrations.

For those of you who were there and were equally as frustrated as I was, then I understand your anger. For those of you where there and were offended by my actions/words I apologize to you and recognize that you don't need some Bravo monkey coming over to Alpha and seemingly throwing his weight around in your environment telling hopefuls what to do. Even if those hopefuls are like the gentleman who played last night.

My goal is to make missions I command as realistic and enjoyable for those involved in the hopes of unsurpassed team play and military simulation.

I look forward to commanding you lot more in the future and I'm not a confrontational person, but I would imagine everyone of you knows what it is like when a long planned mission is trumped by someone who isn't familiar with our conduct and communication disciplines.

As for the rest of the Tactical Gamer members and command, I am at your service.

Semper TG

01-31-2012, 09:51 AM
Before reading my post: I wasn't there and can't remember the last time I played on Alpha (its been a looong time) - so the reader can accept or regect my post having that info.

It would seem that you were the most frustrated of the Alpha players about the rogue player. My advice would have been this: get the support of fellow players about taking action against the player if all other options have been exhausted. Let me be clear on one thing, im not an admin and respect their role as such - so if one was present, I would have discussion with the rest of the team and conveyed the groups opinion to the admin. If one wasnt in game, I'd check teamspeak and see if one could be found.
This is the easy answer as Ive written it so far.

The harder answer is when no admin is present. The nice thing about Arma however is that there can be a game-admin through the voting system. In the case the player refused to follow the chain of command, blantantly disregarded orders and was disrupting the game for every other player on the server - I would have no problem floating the idea for a votekick. The caveat again, is you need to exhaust every other option before taking it this far IMO. And that takes time.

Sometimes leaving the server is the only option if others do not share in your opinion. It happens. Its happened to me. As frustrating as it can be to have your hand forced - it takes the courage of the player to swallow their frustration and find something else to occupy their time.
Personally I love to record via Fraps incidents where players are out of line and save them for a later time. If I try and fail to state my case to the admins or players, the proof is right there. Also, the threat of this "video evidence" generally puts people back in line or they leave the server (this worked wonders in BF2:PR, havn't really had scenarios in Arma where this ever became necessary).

The public "mea culpa" took some courage, so cheers to that. There is nothing wrong with mature discussion here in the forums about handling rogue players. These posts can unfortunately lead to flames etc etc.

To all posters that follow, lets keep it mature and constructive :)

Forgive any typos as im typing using my phone (GSii).

01-31-2012, 10:46 AM
I was not the only one upset and was encouraged to communicate the issue during AAR by several members in game. I may be making this more of an issue than it was, but I felt the need to at least express my side of the story if only to apologize to anyone on Alpha who may have had issues with the way I handled it.

Thanks for the reply Sin.

01-31-2012, 11:40 AM
I was on Alpha last night but must have left before all this. We have been getting quite a lot of pubbies in there lately and sometimes it is difficult to communicate with them. There have been a few that just would not answer or acknowledge anything that came from us. I do understand the frustration, it actually happened again a few nights ago when we spent quite some time getting ready and moving up to the target and coordinating with each other (that included a few non TG'ers too) and someone came in, took what he wanted from the ammo box, a chopper flew over to our position, alerted the enemy, and as a result the mission was a failure and most of us got killed.

I am not sure what the right thing is, but I too would have tried to talk to him and express how we do things here in TG. If he still ignored and did not answer and try to resolve the issue then I would have put in a vote for a kick. I do not think one person should destroy the gameplay for the rest of us. I have respect for the admins but also know that they cannot be here all the time, especially considering the time differencies for all of us. My latest sad example was someone who kept swearing (quite a lot) and after 5 warning he just did not care, so being the voted admin at the time I kicked him. He came back and had another go, so the same happened again. Unfortunately there was no admin to be found at that time, but I later informed one so the matter stayed there.

As for the Alpha/Bravo matter, being an Alpha, mostly, player myself, I think people underestimate it sometimes. I do not wish to insult anyone, but Alpha is easy to join, easy to play for someone who has only a bit of time (missions on Bravo take longer and usually the enviroment is more "strict") and as a server that gets a lot of pubbies difficult to be in sometimes (with lack of communication, or constant nagging by few who do not like to ask before taking vehicles etc etc). So sometimes when someone says to drop everything and go to Bravo, well it gets a little annoying (yes I know that most times - if not all - it is just a suggestion or an invite). All regular TG players know how to join and personally , I always encourage people to try Bravo as soon as the get comfortable enough in Alpha.

I hope I have expressed myself correctly if not then excuse my typing/grammar/lack of "proper" words

01-31-2012, 11:42 AM
It happens to the best of us. Sometimes we can have immense amount of tolerance and patience. But also we can also experience the opposite.

I'm very glad that you have posted your experience here and hopefully it will echo to the newbies and the old that we are after all just human.

Let's learn from our experiences and drive on.

Sent from my phone

01-31-2012, 12:25 PM
I was there and somehow could not hear what was said in debrief. However, before that point the leadership & the entire squad was a joy to be a part of. I hope to see you all soon. Your going to make me stay up way to late...what a great game that was.

Sent thru the ether via Tapatalk.

01-31-2012, 01:23 PM
I didn't hear the debrief either, but I didn't think the individual's actions ruined the mission, just highlighted the need to join a squad, communicate with your team, and follow instructions from higher-ups.

Pre-planning and transport went well, with no mishaps during the initial insertion.

The assault went quite well, despite the quantity of enemy armor and personnel at the target. That was due to command taking the time to position troops in spots that had good cover/concealment but also good angles of attack, keeping the two elements in spots they could support each other, and having the two elements attack at the same time (although there was a small communication breakdown at the assault start, when Alpha was surprised to see SMAW rounds coming from Bravo team's location, but it was an easy indicator it was time to attack ;).

The problem I ran into was finding the the objective (the flag), which had disappeared. It was then I found out someone had already grabbed it, and the concern turned to keeping that person alive and getting them back to the LHA to complete the mission (and find out what had happened). It was during this time I heard more details about someone parachuting in, making a grab for the flag, and running out, sometime during the assault.

In any circumstance like this, I try to focus on the positives (the planning, the teamwork, the execution), and work to mitigate the negatives in the future.

To be honest, when I first read the thread title, I thought we would be discussing my disaster of trying to lead on Unk's mission...but that is another story.

01-31-2012, 01:31 PM
Woof. You are correct.

I would like to say, you lot did excellent, and when I think back to how it was executed, I honestly was Floored at how well it all came together. We pinched that objective and succeeded when it was obvious that we were greatly out gunned by that armor.

The mission was not ruined at all, merely interrupted, at the very end.

Thanks for the assistance Woof, I'm only as good as the men I command, and last night we were at our best.

01-31-2012, 01:35 PM
Right, and the only other thing I want to add, is this. Up until I realized that player was not part of Alpha Team or Bravo Team, I figured he was with one of you and had outstanding luck. After I realized that he was a pubbie, I got so frustrated. And I admit, and most of you can relate, it was very difficult to contain. The pacifying element here, for me, should be that the entire thing, up until that point was a blast.

Thanks again for the support guys.

Semper TG

02-01-2012, 03:12 PM
I am the person that asked you not to recruit players to Bravo. We are in a period of rebuilding the player base here at TG Arma and the core players on alpha bring the new players along slowly, showing and trying teach them the TG way. During game play we always mention that Alpha is the starting point for Arma and Bravo is the destination for hard core teamwork and mil sim like play and do it in the forums also. We are not about making it a class distinction or whatever between the two servers, Alpha serves a purpose here at TG so if anyone is discounting it on Bravo, that needs to stop. If the guys on Alpha continue like they are now, Bravo will get the TG style players it needs. TG has been here a long time and the system works.

02-01-2012, 03:23 PM
Thanks for the reply, Chief.

Aside from occasional light fun, I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk bad about the Alpha server in the entire time I've played ARMA2.