Hunting or Tactical Play?

[Swoop]

I was playing CS:S with fellow TGers about a week back and we were having some good matches on de_cbble. One round, however, came down to two CTs, myself and another, and only one T(the bomb carrier). As the remaining two Cts, we split up to guard the bombsites(natually). I took A and my partner took B. Few seconds pass...nothing. We continue waiting patiently. About a min later (time really does not matter) my partner tells me that he saw the remaining T in the hallway exit at B, but that he retreated back inside. I reply "Roger" and hold my position, in case of a backtrack. My partner then tells me that he can hear the T moving in the hallway, but still is not coming out. (The T may have been trying to see if he could pick one of us off...i dont know). I tell my partner that I will move down the ramps from site A, turn right and enter the hallway leading to site B from the backside(so as to sandwich the T). He replys "Roger, Ill watch the hallway's exit to site B". I move slowly through the hall and find the T crouched aiming in my partners direction. I take position and shoot the T in the side of the head twice (i am a horrible aim I know) killing him...round over.

At the beginning of next round, I get a message at the bottom of the screen from the T we took out telling me that he feels my play was iffy and boardline hunting. He was not mad or upset, however I appologized to the TGer and said that I communicated to my team and we agreed on the play. I also told him that since it was "an iffy play", we would not do it again. Play resumed as usual.

Please correct me if I am wrong, as I want to be on the same page as fellow TGers:
My definition of HUNTING: to walk around looking for kills with total disregard of other teammates and/or the objective at hand.

Soooooo....is this considered hunting or Tactical play?
Should we have continued waiting at the bomb sites or use the intell to our advantage?

-swoop-
I enjoy playing on TG servers with all of yous guys.

[Tempus]

What you've done is entered the advanced part of PCS. Generally, we discourage players from entering that area (the T side of A) since the average pubbie does not understand the difference between tactical play and deathmatching. In your case, where there was only one player left and he was located, what you did IS in the spirit of PCS play.

Unfortunately, the difficulty is in applying fair standards to every player. That is where the concept of 'boundaries' came up in the first place.

If it happened to me, I would not mind, because I understand and agree with the move. But you can expect to hear plenty of arguing from others questioning why that move is ok while others are not.

[Wyzcrak]

You brought the heat, in full communication with your team and with your objective in mind.

Well done. Game on.

[asch]

Hey Swoop... that was probably me that you maliciously shot in the back of the head.... twice.

On our public server I will question the actions of many players, regardless of whether they wear the TG tag. I have to do this, not to pick on you, but to understand your intentions. This is the only way in-game to do this when I'm on the opposite (and unfortunately losing) team. That is why I made the comment at the beginning of the next round as "iffy".

What you did though was provide the answer I was looking for. Once you told me what you were doing and how you worked with your team, I had absolutely no problem with it... other than you killed me. If you had just said "ok", dropped it and never brought it up here, then that would signal to me that you aren't picking up on the PCS play yet.

If I left you with the wrong impression, that was my fault. As Tempus mentioned, we're striving for something difficult to admin on a public server. Some actions I'll question so that we begin to understand why we're doing them.

For example, if TG players are running around the map communicating with their team, effectively playing with no "boundaries", there isn't anything wrong. Yet when the public player sees this and starts running around and looking for kills... worse yet, another TGer who doesn't fully understand what we're striving for, then we're just making it worse, not better.

I think what you and your teammate did was great... again, except for shooting me. Now we just need to get the rest of the world to play like that... again... except for shooting me.

[TheFeniX]

Originally Posted by asch

except for shooting me.

Can I still blow you into the stone age with HE grenades?

[Swoop]

Thanks guys for the comments, yall have cleared the confusion on my part.

I totally appreciate all the work the admins do in keeping the tactical spirit alive

Yall make it a pleasure to play on the TG servers

-swoop-

[Nightfire]

don't even tell me about "tactical play," i've haven't seen a single "advanced" tactical play in ages. i'm hoping that i'm wrong but for a guy who plays css in TG everyday, that's no good stats.

[IceCold]

Originally Posted by Nightfire

don't even tell me about "tactical play," i've haven't seen a single "advanced" tactical play in ages. i'm hoping that i'm wrong but for a guy who plays css in TG everyday, that's no good stats.

What exactly is "advanced" tactical play????

It can be argued that CounterStrike does not support "advanced" tactical play. TG makes it as tactical as possible, but the game limits what you can do... If you want more tactical, play Battlefield, Ghost Recon or even Joint Operations...

[SephirothValentine]

Personally I think boundaries and things like that should be purely subjective in the sense of enforcing them.

Boundaries should mean NOTHING compared to ensuring your objective is complete and that you work with your team. Thus if you cross a boundary to help out a teammate (who hopefully is not rushing) then you should be able to if you have a good reason.

An example of this would be that the enemy rushes A in Chateau and your all the way at B. Now even if the bomb is not planted if you know where the enemy is (except in the spawn where you should let them stay and waste time) you should take the quickest route to help your allies and the water can provide a flank attack that definitly is tactical. Of coarse someone needs to stay at B just in case A is a diversion . I think what Swoop did was a elementary tactic (blindside the enemy).

All you really have to look out for are people with no communication and that rush the enemy with no reasons except to get kills (you must know where they are and have a good reason to be there). One of the biggest questions I think is the DD in Aztec. If you know the enemy is attempting to cross the bridge, are you really not allowed to nade or quickly take out people from the DD as long as you do with communication.

I know this will be shot down but what if the team agrees that a part of the team will rush a certain way in order to flank the enemy (coordinated and controlled rush) that will box the enemy who welll have to deal with the defenders and attackers! The only thing I'm definitly against is a single rusher or the whole team going one way (leaves bomb sites or hosties open). This would be perfect for Office if you know what I mean.

Keep this in mind when interpreting if someone is rushing (the best defense is a good offense).

[Karkianman101]

Thats great on games where EVERYONE is a regular or semi regular. But in pubbie games, that gives them the wrong idea, since they often fail to understand the subtley, and then they bitch when someone slays them for rushing.

[Wyzcrak]

That's for the admins to worry about. The admins (and regulars) can explain to "new" players that they must be trusted to leave the bombsite. Note the wording in our recent MOTD revamp:

We demand new guests play close to the objectives. Once you're a regular on the server and prove, in act, your understanding and acceptance of our PCS playstyle, you'll find that you're given more freedom to work the full map toward your team's objective.

The alternative is playing half-ass PCS every time there's a public player on the server.

[Root]

Originally Posted by Karkianman101

Thats great on games where EVERYONE is a regular or semi regular. But in pubbie games, that gives them the wrong idea, since they often fail to understand the subtley, and then they bitch when someone slays them for rushing.

Well lets try and get at least 1 or 2 captains games in every night. The pubbies I've seen get caught up in the last few have been receptive enough that we've had good games. Captains games are a win/win situation for PCS players. I'll organise one later tonight if everyone on the server wants one (I have to wipe away the memory of my team being defeated on havana). If you want to be allowed to cross boundaries because you're playing to the objective, captains games are what you want. The rest of the time, there are plenty of occasions when only TG regulars are on the server, so PCS rules should automatically be in play anyway.

Root

[Wyzcrak]

Originally Posted by cookietester

Captains games are a win/win situation for PCS players. ... If you want to be allowed to cross boundaries because you're playing to the objective, captains games are what you want.

mmmmmm delicious.

[Karkianman101]

Except last night in the beginning of round 2 the t's went (imo) a little too far, and all of them rushed down the dark atrium stairs and tried to kill ct's. If just one of us had gone the other way and gotten by, we could have gotten the hosties and won. I know this because thats where the very last t was killed by me.

Speaking of the 2nd round, it sucks. It should probably be abandoned. We had literally half the server immediately leave, half of which were replaced by pubbies.

[Root]

Originally Posted by Karkianman101

Except last night in the beginning of round 2 the t's went (imo) a little too far, and all of them rushed down the dark atrium stairs and tried to kill ct's. If just one of us had gone the other way and gotten by, we could have gotten the hosties and won. I know this because thats where the very last t was killed by me.

Speaking of the 2nd round, it sucks. It should probably be abandoned. We had literally half the server immediately leave, half of which were replaced by pubbies.

I can't see why T's shouldn't be in the atrium, especially at the start of the round when they have a full team. Maybe you haven't explained what you meant clearly, but I read your post as "no fair - we lost because they moved downstairs".

As for the second round, maybe we should have abandoned the game, but I thought the pubbies fitted in rather well.

Root