Would this be considered Spawn Camping?

[TheMuncher]

I don't really think this would be looked so kindly upon, but would it be considered spawn camping to sit at the end of a runway, somewhere like Gulf of Oman, and with the unlocked rifle snipe pilots out of their jets? I haven't ever seen this happen, but I thought about it and was wondering if it was a viable solution to keeping enemy air assets from flying.

[Killah]

Originally Posted by TheMuncher

I don't really think this would be looked so kindly upon, but would it be considered spawn camping to sit at the end of a runway, somewhere like Gulf of Oman, and with the unlocked rifle snipe pilots out of their jets? I haven't ever seen this happen, but I thought about it and was wondering if it was a viable solution to keeping enemy air assets from flying.

of course not! that could technically be considered a tactic...

a guy could be sniping at end of runway while another man on the same team trying to take the spawn point...

so as the sniper keeps the enemies at bay the other man could be taking the base

so my opinion is that that is not spawn camping, others may say differently if they wish....

[Maranhao]

You can always mine their airfield a few feet from the plane, they'd have a really hard time taking off. I hope this isn't considered spawn camping either.

[TheMuncher]

Opps, I meant to put in this is on a UCB. I'm against this, I'm jsut putting it out there for official decisions.

[AzrealDarkmoon]

Depends, if you only snipe them a few seconds after they spawn, then I don't think I would consider it so.

Az

[Bommando]

It is a UCB. This would very definitely be spawn camping. You are not there to destroy assets or capture a flag, you are simply picking people off as they spawn. I would call mining in the same category. The best way to decide if you think it's fair is whether you would consider it fair if it happened to you. How would you feel if you jumped in a plane to backup your troops, power up the engine, go 3 metres and get blown. I can't imagine anything more infuriating and underhanded. You are not capturing a CP or defending one. Why not get back to the front line and fight for a genuinely capturable CP than sneak around trying to piss people off.

By the way, this is not directed at anyone in particular. I just have a strong opinion on spawn camping.

[asch]

Sniping into a UCB to kill folks jumping into planes would be considered spawn camping.

[jex]

So what about laying a satchel charge underneath it and blowing it as the take off? Seems to me to be same thing, but differing methods used. Remember, the shot is taken against those who climb into the jet, sitting in the cockpit, not those running to it - does that change things?

[asch]

Folks, I feel like we're trying to find any loophole to be in an enemy's UCB to frag. This shouldn't be the case. If you're not in the UCB to destroy an asset (art/radar/uav), then there probably is no good reason to be in there.

[Bommando]

Originally Posted by jex

So what about laying a satchel charge underneath it and blowing it as the take off? Seems to me to be same thing, but differing methods used. Remember, the shot is taken against those who climb into the jet, sitting in the cockpit, not those running to it - does that change things?

I am not an admin, but I can offer my opinion on the matter:

No, No and No.

I believe the only enemies who belong in a UCB are Spec Ops and maybe a couple of supporting troops. They should only be destroying UAV, Radar and Artillery and defending themselves against attack. They should not be booby-trapping or stealing enemy vehicles (except to escape) and certainly should not be picking off disorientated spawners.

Again, would you feel it fair if you were on the receiving end of such actions? if the answer is no, then one should do unto others as they would have done unto them.

Of course, my take on things might be different than the official rules, but that is how I behave when infiltrating. Blow up the gear and steal the smallest vehicle to get out as quickly as possible. Preferably a buggy or a transport.

We need very strict rules on this, since any kind of grey area will just get out of hand. For example, I was CO on the Daqing Oilfields last night and a whole squad was spawn camping the UCB, stealing vehicles, killing spawners and even going so far as to shoot down our air assets with our own AA gun. Seriously folks, find something better to do. I can get very grumpy when people roll up uninvited.

[duckilama]

Originally Posted by asch

Folks, I feel like we're trying to find any loophole to be in an enemy's UCB to frag. This shouldn't be the case. If you're not in the UCB to destroy an asset (art/radar/uav), then there probably is no good reason to be in there.

I can think of precisely one other "good" reason to be in the enemy UCB.
Hijacking assets.
Certain maps, the Blackhawk is incredibly powerful. Denying that to the enemy is just as powerful(if not moreso) as denying them arty or UAV, and, IMO, a valid tactic...
... if you are stealing it and flying it and using it.

If you're just there doing little more than increasing your killcount, that's not a valid tactic, IMO, but if you sneak in, steal the chopper, get out and go pick up your squad, that would be strategically sound in my book.

Edit: Looks like Bommando and I disagree on stealing vehicles. I, personally, feel the BH is so powerful on some maps that is it more strategically important than any of the COs assets, making it a valid denial target, but not if you are going to do it in a griefing way. Steal the chopper, get out, go use it. That's my opinion, anyway.

[leejo]

I've been around and around with folks about this, but my thoughts are that if an enemy is in your UCB wreaking havoc, then the proper lesson is to defend it better next time, not call "unfair!" In RL, such assets would remain heavily guarded, and should remain heavily guarded in game.

Anyway, the gentlemen's agreement is to shoot each other over there, but not over here. That's fine I guess.

[Furious]

...and according to the rules and SOPs, unless you are directed by your CO to attack structures (UAV Trailer, Radar Dish & Artillery) within the enemy UCB, you shouldn't be there at all.

[Bommando]

Originally Posted by leejo

I've been around and around with folks about this, but my thoughts are that if an enemy is in your UCB wreaking havoc, then the proper lesson is to defend it better next time, not call "unfair!" In RL, such assets would remain heavily guarded, and should remain heavily guarded in game.

Anyway, the gentlemen's agreement is to shoot each other over there, but not over here. That's fine I guess.

I believe assaults should only happen on capturable CPs only because if you look at most BF2 maps with UCBs, then you will see that they are usually quite far from the action and it simply makes no sense to assign a squad out of the game to defend just in case someone decides they feel like spawn camping. A squad assigned with this duty might see no action for the entire game, or they might fight off one or two attempts at attack. I'd hate to be assigned with this task as SL and do not feel comfortable assigning this task as CO.

My take on it:

Uncapturable = Destroy assets and get out.
Capturable = Take the flag and it's yours. Vehicles and all.

[SmokingTarpan]

Originally Posted by duckilama

I can think of precisely one other "good" reason to be in the enemy UCB.
Hijacking assets.
Certain maps, the Blackhawk is incredibly powerful. Denying that to the enemy is just as powerful(if not moreso) as denying them arty or UAV, and, IMO, a valid tactic...
... if you are stealing it and flying it and using it.

I believe this has already been ruled against.

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlefield-2-general-discussion/56573-ucb-assaults-question-about-vehicles.html

Originally Posted by asch

There may be moves that are "tactical" in theory but we've found in reality they are much different. And I mean the reality of the game. There are game limitations, etc. that lead us to restrict outright stealing of vehicles in a UCB.

One thing TG was built on was that we wanted great "battlefield" action and not "supply-line" action. Restricting outright UCB vehicle stealing is one of the rules we have put in place to keep the battlefield action intense.

...

If a squad is in a UCB to destroy the assets and has completed that mission, they may take a vehicle to leave the UCB.