Beef with the locked air squad

[JMJ]

I have a question. Someone recently asked people not to lock the "Air Squad". On the password server last night the air squad was locked, it had 4 people. Fair enough. Not to long after seeing this it dropped to 3 people, where it stayed most of the night. Some of the maps have 4 and 5 combined helos/planes. If one of these is a two seater, you have only 2 aircraft being used.

In an instance like this, I feel it's acceptable to take any plane/helo I see if I feel I or my squad can immediately benefit from it. Do others share this opinion? I saw a lot of aircraft sitting around at times last night, probably due to the rule of "Don't jack the air vehicles if you aren't in the air squad". When an air squad is full, there is never any aircraft to take, which is how it should be.

There are a lot of capable pilots and these important assets shouldn't be left sitting because of monopolizing the "air squad" name and locking it.

Just my 2 cents, flame suit on!

[Wyzcrak]

The point of an air squad is to HELP a team, not cripple it. If an air squad is leaving assets completely unused (over time, not just when you happen to spawn this time), form your own squad and notify your CO of the situation. I'm sure you can work something out.

[StrikeFear]

I agree with Wyzcrak. I'll go even further.

There should not BE an "air" squad.
They should be named to distinguish attack helos from Jets. Those should be two separate squads (assuming 9 is enuf for everyone - which is usually true).

THEY SHOULD NEVER BE LOCKED. EVER.

If you lock it, no one else can get in.
If no one else can get in, no one else can get a turn with the assets (without breaking convention). AND THAT'S NOT FAIR.

Asset-based squads are NOT a statement that they have "dibs" on assets. NO PLAYERS CAN CLAIM DIBS.

A SQUAD, however, CAN CLAIM DIBS. But anyone can join the squad, see? That makes sure anyone can use the assets, and that the assets are being used well.

I know that you make an attack helo squad (which should have 2 people in it - possibly 4 for maps like Dalian Plant where extra helos spawn), and smacktards join it who never intended on getting in a helo, or worse: they DID intend on it, but can't fly to save their lives.
I know that happens. KEEP IT OPEN ANYWAY. You have no right to either lay claim on the assets or force others to "break convention" to get their turn. Just resort to continually kicking those players from the squad, or whatever you gotta do. DO NOT LOCK IT.

[John CANavar]

For perfectly good intentions, I used to lock the helo support squad. But I understand and agree with StrikeFear's points and will not lock it next time...

[Wulfyn]

Hmmm... I'm more inclined to go with Wyzcrack than Strikefear on this one initially, and leave it to the CO's discretion. After all, he's in charge of the mission. If the CO wants a squad to be called Jets, wants it filled with 2 people, and then locked so that only 2 people are in it, then that's what he should get.

If he wants one guy to form a squad called blackhawk, and for that guy to lock it at 1 and then him act as a pilot to ferry people from point to point, then that is what he should get.

And then If there is no CO, then I think you should follow what Strikefear has said.

[TEMM]

Yea the other night I created a VMFA 531 squad and we had 4 people in it and were rotating on and off flying, but once the map changed some guy from another squad kept grabbing the jets before we could get them, or standing in front of it so we couldnt take off without running him over. I complained and he said that theres no rule that only people in the air/GG squad are allowed to use the air assets... which i couldnt argue because there isnt really a rule against it. Worst part was I think he was a TG member

[Pokerface]

Originally Posted by TEMM

Yea the other night I created a VMFA 531 squad and we had 4 people in it and were rotating on and off flying, but once the map changed some guy from another squad kept grabbing the jets before we could get them, or standing in front of it so we couldnt take off without running him over. I complained and he said that theres no rule that only people in the air/GG squad are allowed to use the air assets... which i couldnt argue because there isnt really a rule against it. Worst part was I think he was a TG member

There IS a rule, however, that says that the CO's word is just about law. If there's an air squad, and the CO has decreed it, only the air squad should be in the air assets.

[StrikeFear]

Originally Posted by TEMM

Yea the other night I created a VMFA 531 squad and we had 4 people in it and were rotating on and off flying, but once the map changed some guy from another squad kept grabbing the jets before we could get them, or standing in front of it so we couldnt take off without running him over. I complained and he said that theres no rule that only people in the air/GG squad are allowed to use the air assets... which i couldnt argue because there isnt really a rule against it. Worst part was I think he was a TG member

Man, I hate it when guys do that. They just don't get it.
If they want their shot at flying, join the jets squad.
BTW, TEMM - well done on that squad. You set it up just right.

Originally Posted by pokerface

There IS a rule, however, that says that the CO's word is just about law. If there's an air squad, and the CO has decreed it, only the air squad should be in the air assets.

Only, you can't rely on having an intelligent CO, or one who is even competent. Worse (correct me if I'm wrong), any pubbie with ranking points is gonna beat out a regular TG-player for the CO's seat, yes? (I wish we had stat-tracking for just our 3 servers...)

[JMJ]

Originally Posted by TEMM

Yea the other night I created a VMFA 531 squad and we had 4 people in it and were rotating on and off flying, but once the map changed some guy from another squad kept grabbing the jets before we could get them, or standing in front of it so we couldnt take off without running him over. I complained and he said that theres no rule that only people in the air/GG squad are allowed to use the air assets... which i couldnt argue because there isnt really a rule against it. Worst part was I think he was a TG member

That was NOT me I was just annoyed to see an "air squad" with 3 people. When I joined the server all squads I would've joined were full, and there was 1 squad with 1 guy who was not a TG regular. I recognized the names in the air squad and tried to join.......LOCKED. I enjoy flying and don't do it a whole lot, and saw this as my opportunity to do some. I was pretty bummed to see it locked with just 3 guys. I managed my way into another squad, and for the rest of the map it seemed as though all we did was get bombed from above. 3 guys aren't going to compete with 5 or 6.

[StrikeFear]

Originally Posted by JMJ

That was NOT me I was just annoyed to see an "air squad" with 3 people. When I joined the server all squads I would've joined were full, and there was 1 squad with 1 guy who was not a TG regular. I recognized the names in the air squad and tried to join.......LOCKED. I enjoy flying and don't do it a whole lot, and saw this as my opportunity to do some. I was pretty bummed to see it locked with just 3 guys. I managed my way into another squad, and for the rest of the map it seemed as though all we did was get bombed from above. 3 guys aren't going to compete with 5 or 6.

You have really good points. What happened was just wrong, IMHO.

But I think you're a little confused on a couple items.
As stated before, there should not be an "air" squad - that's too vague. If however, there is a "Jets" squad, 3 players is perfectly reasonable. That's enough to man ALL the seats on the maps with the GREATEST number of jet seats. (If there's more, they have to find something to do while waiting their turn - which is just fine, but I'm saying 3 is not too small.)

3 guys WILL compete with 5 or 6, because no team has more than 3 jet seats anyway. You're talking about being "bombed", so helos must not be in the picture. If they are, they have nothing to do with the Jets squad, and helos don't "compete" with Jets - they're "hunted" by Jets.

Is this clearing anything up? Or was I misunderstanding you?

[jex]

Surely the server rule should be Cobra's, etc should utilise both seats? On the scant times I've actually flown a cobra, I always look for a copilot and try to make use of a two-man-team. If the pilot seats are taken and there are available gunners, then the rule should be to pick up the gunners and then work as a team hitting ground targets. I see a lot of cobra's flying around with only 1 player in it - why?

Some maps have a lot of aircraft. The Dam map potentially has 2 cobra's (4 players), plus 2 jets (an extra 3 or 4 seats), not to mention the blackhawk - 6 seats), so potentially 13-14 seats for 6 guys - i don't think that's fair. In this case 2 air squads are prefectly acceptable.

[JMJ]

Originally Posted by StrikeFear

You have really good points. What happened was just wrong, IMHO.

But I think you're a little confused on a couple items.
As stated before, there should not be an "air" squad - that's too vague. If however, there is a "Jets" squad, 3 players is perfectly reasonable. That's enough to man ALL the seats on the maps with the GREATEST number of jet seats. (If there's more, they have to find something to do while waiting their turn - which is just fine, but I'm saying 3 is not too small.)

3 guys WILL compete with 5 or 6, because no team has more than 3 jet seats anyway. You're talking about being "bombed", so helos must not be in the picture. If they are, they have nothing to do with the Jets squad, and helos don't "compete" with Jets - they're "hunted" by Jets.

Is this clearing anything up? Or was I misunderstanding you?

I'm specifically thinking of Daqing Oil Fields. Not only were we getting bombed senseless by planes, we also had the problem of the TV guided missile to deal with. For the life of me I can't remember who was in that attack helo, but they used it exactly as they should've: Stay back and let the TV guided missle do the work. I hardly ever saw the thing, but I felt it's wrath far too much. It was almost as if they had a spotter telling them when we had a tank leaving the flag.

I agree with you about a "jets" squad. That is either 2 or 3 people depending on the planes available. However, the designation was "air squad" which to me includes planes/helos. I don't think there will be too much of a problem with that from now on though, and I hope to get a chance to fly with you guys every once in a while when there are no 7th guys to team up with

[StrikeFear]

Originally Posted by jex

I see a lot of cobra's flying around with only 1 player in it - why?

That's just foolish. There's no good reason for this. Smacktards.

Originally Posted by jex

Some maps have a lot of aircraft. The Dam map potentially has 2 cobra's (4 players), plus 2 jets (an extra 3 or 4 seats), not to mention the blackhawk - 6 seats), so potentially 13-14 seats for 6 guys - i don't think that's fair. In this case 2 air squads are prefectly acceptable.

Actually, as long as the 9-squad limit is not reached and people can't join squads, it's ESSENTIAL to keep attack helos and jets separate.
They each have TOO MUCH to talk about to each other which has nothing to do with the other. Know what I mean?
The comms conflict is SO GREAT that neither of them can do their job.
In an organized match, they could all be in one squad, but they'd have to use teamspeak as an alternate comms medium.

[Napalmenator]

I have a question then as a commander... There was an "air" squad in the game.. but anytime i gave orders they were denied and I was told they couldnt "because" they were an air squad. In my opinion i lost the use of that squad and never had a clue what they were doing other then flying around. I tried to give orders that seemed relevent to a flying squad but no use. It was just really frustrating.

[StrikeFear]

I dunno ... there certainly are limitations on the jets - and it's important for the CO to know what they can and can't do.
I suppose you needed to ask them what it meant that they couldn't because they were in an air squad. A little more communication might have resulted in an educational experience for the both of you.

For more info, consult this thread.