Killing SL Switching

[Strag]

I know this may be a moot point, but I'm curious anyway. If this has been discussed elsewhere, please forgive me, but I've not seen it.

Would it be possible (server side only) to effectively kill SL switching by imposing a waiting period on a player for joining/creating a squad after he has left it? I mean, if a player left his squad and wasn't able to join another squad or create a new squad for 15 seconds, the whole tactic of SL switching would pretty much be useless, right? If this were a server-side mod, teams wouldn't have a choice in the matter.


To take this a step further, would it be possible to impose certain other rules during scrims by making certain server-side modifications?

[Tempus]

We have discussed making a mod for this, but decided that it was better to just enforce a policy rather than implement a complicated squad management mod.

[BHack]

Wouldn't fix the problem, at least using the suggested time of 15 seconds.

If you made it something like 60 seconds, it would certainly make the tactic much more difficult to use, but still not impossible. All it takes is for one squad member to stay alive and go hide somewhere. Everyone could wait to join back in and then the cheapness could continue. If you set the time to something like 2 minutes, that might nullify the tactic, as spawning back at base and getting back to the flag would be just as quick.

Unfortunately there are alot of valid reasons to leave a squad and join back in it within 2 minutes. As it is the only way to change the squad leader (legitimately).

[Strag]

Originally Posted by Tempus

We have discussed making a mod for this, but decided that it was better to just enforce a policy rather than implement a complicated squad management mod.

Roger that.

Originally Posted by Bhack

Wouldn't fix the problem, at least using the suggested time of 15 seconds.

If you made it something like 60 seconds, it would certainly make the tactic much more difficult to use, but still not impossible. All it takes is for one squad member to stay alive and go hide somewhere. Everyone could wait to join back in and then the cheapness could continue. If you set the time to something like 2 minutes, that might nullify the tactic, as spawning back at base and getting back to the flag would be just as quick.

Unfortunately there are alot of valid reasons to leave a squad and join back in it within 2 minutes. As it is the only way to change the squad leader (legitimately).

Agreed, 15 seconds wouldn't eliminate it, but it would certainly hamper its use. And 60 seconds would make it completely worthless to a team as a tactic. If a player got killed and left his squad, he wouldn't be able to join another squad OR create a new squad for an entire minute (an eternity in BF2). In effect, he'd be restricted to spawning only at his team's existing flags (which defeats the entire purpose of SL switching).

If he was killed and decided not to leave his squad (waiting instead to respawn on his SL), we would have exactly the scenario we TGers desire.

[BHack]

Well I understand what your saying, but 60 seconds really wouldn't cut it, possibly deter it though.

The reason is that if your the SL and you die and aren't revived, you leave the squad, making someone else the SL, if this person is alive then you can spawn on him, if he's not then that person has to leave the squad and rejoin as well, until someone that is alive is SL and everyone that is dead can then respawn in at that location. Even if you set it to 60 seconds, if the alive Squad member were to hide somewhere and wait for 60 seconds then everyone could spawn back in on him. 60 seconds is not enough of a penalty because to start the attack over again from your own CP can often take much more than 60 seconds.

[Strag]

Originally Posted by Bhack

Well I understand what your saying, but 60 seconds really wouldn't cut it, possibly deter it though.

Yes, and that's the point. Deter it to the point of uselessness and/or disadvantage.

Originally Posted by Bhack

The reason is that if your the SL and you die and aren't revived, you leave the squad, making someone else the SL, if this person is alive then you can spawn on him...

If you left the squad, you couldn't spawn on him (or any other SL) for 60 seconds. ANYONE who left a squad (whether alive or dead) would not be able to join/create another squad for 60 seconds. What use does SL switching have if players are sitting around dead for 60 seconds at a time, waiting to be able to join/create a squad so they can spawn on a SL? Their only other alternative would be to spawn on a flag (eliminating the benefit of having a SL as a spawn point), and we could deal with that conventionally.

Originally Posted by Bhack

...then that person has to leave the squad and rejoin as well, until someone that is alive is SL and everyone that is dead can then respawn in at that location. Even if you set it to 60 seconds, if the alive Squad member were to hide somewhere and wait for 60 seconds then everyone could spawn back in on him. 60 seconds is not enough of a penalty because to start the attack over again from your own CP can often take much more than 60 seconds.

Actually, our TG/correct way would be better than this because we wouldn't have to wait 60 seconds to be able to respawn on a SL. So with the 60-second penalty, teams that used SL switching would actually be at a disadvantage compared to teams that didn't. Let 'em use it, I say.

But this is all, of course, just rhetoric.

[percu]

<A future dream>Make the joining of squads something like applying for the commander position. If anybody would join a squad they had to apply for joining, then have to wait 60 seconds. If we have done this for normal squad joining, the whole SL switching would have been nearly obsolete. That’s because we still would have a normal 20 seconds respawn for the SM who are in a squad. </A future dream>

[Tempus]

What we toyed with briefly was allowing people to leave a squad only when alive (and the game has started).

This would not, however, prevent people on servers without a squadless kick from just staying out of squads and joining them whenever needed.

[percu]

Originally Posted by Tempus

What we toyed with briefly was allowing people to leave a squad only when alive (and the game has started).

This would not, however, prevent people on servers without a squadless kick from just staying out of squads and joining them whenever needed.

Yeah, but by making they have to wait 60 sec, whatever they are dead or not would make it hard to split out of squads, for making another squad, so others also could spawn on them. Make the best from 2 worlds come together; both "apply and wait" and also just letting they leave squads when they are alive. (The squad less kick has to be tuned then).

[Strag]

Originally Posted by percu

Yeah, but by making they have to wait 60 sec, whatever they are dead or not would make it hard to split out of squads, for making another squad, so others also could spawn on them. Make the best from 2 worlds come together; both "apply and wait" and also just letting they leave squads when they are alive. (The squad less kick has to be tuned then).

Yeah, the squadless kick feature (which I think should also be active during scrims) would definitely have to work in conjunction with the squad leave/join delay.

Perhaps these are suggestions that could be implemented in a future TG mod or even the Tactical Mod.

[Preston85]

How about when there is a new SL there is a 60 second delay on being able to spawn on them, treating them the same as when they are dead or in a full vehicle.

[ScratchMonkey]

Now if only there were a way to be audibly notified when one becomes SL. I hate suddenly finding I'm SL and have been running around doing un-SL things for awhile. Then someone says, "Scratch, you do realize you're SL, right?" "Uhhhhhhhh, no."

[percu]

Originally Posted by ScratchMonkey

Now if only there were a way to be audibly notified when one becomes SL. I hate suddenly finding I'm SL and have been running around doing un-SL things for awhile. Then someone says, "Scratch, you do realize you're SL, right?" "Uhhhhhhhh, no."

Perhaps the sound and announcement you get when you got a badge/promotion in pub BF2.

Then you would know.

[ScratchMonkey]

"You've been nominated for a promotion." That'd be perfect!