Mod 0.4 test run Dec 10

[aculle01]

Jumped on just before 2000. Games were small I think we maxed out at around 20 on a side...if that. Not going to get into the actual rounds as we were there with the purpose of testing not really winning.


Support and the HMGs are lethal, as they should be, but with everyone running around as support it was getting to be a bit much. Maybe we were still in "vanilla mode" running not paying attention to cover. I know snipers were losing to support guys during the test.

The half health revive and no medic pack throwing I think works to an extent. I think if we are going to hamper the medic than we should take away the dying penalty. Running around as a medic I was definitely thinking twice before running out to revive someone and used smoke to conceal the wounded. but you cant do that for everyone and so there were definitely deaths occuring that normally wouldnt happen.

I think to hamper the support a little not in terms of firing but as a class is to limit the number of ammo bags he carries. It might slow things down a bit too much but it prevents grenade spamming and at the same time requires the used of a commander to drop supplies.

I had fun tonight, definitely would have been better with more people and having commanders to lead the way and coordinate the attack. I dont know if it was part of the mod or a server setting but the bleed on karkland for the USMC was brutal. Thats all I have, carry on.

[shawn]

respost from tactical mod suggestion

ok here's the things i scratched down while playing these evening.
-choppers way too powerful. this is more evident in tactical mod because of the increase in spawn time. possible solutions: remove choppers(obviously the most drastic); make small arms damage choppers mroe significantly (maybe unrealistic?); increase chopper spawn time even more.

The long spawn time is boring, is it possible to do something like counterstrike where you can fly around the map or follow through a teammates eyes. (probably too hard to do for the benefit; most likely development time will be spent on actualy gameplay first)

Make small arms affect APCs (I thought of this on the first map i played but now i think it's a stupid idea. ATs are good enough to take it out)

The bleed on Karkand should be changed so that on 16 players the USMC stop bleed when they get UBC + 1 spawn point. ie its 2 for USMC and 2 for MEC. The game we played lasted maybe 10 minutes tops.

The support class is really really good. There were a few suggestions thrown around TS so most of these arent mine but I want to write them down just incase. Add a "setup time" for the gun when you go prone. Make the gun overheat faster. Decrease accuracy. Limit to one support per squad.

Allow smoke to be resupplied. I only played medic while i tried this but smoke wouldnt resupply at a supply box.

A summary of the maps i played

Dalian Plant - this is where all the chopper complaints came from. In vanilla BF2 the choppers are good on this map. With increase spawn time they are unreal in this game.

zatar wetlands - this was the best map i played. the jets worked out really well. everything seemed to come together and be balanced

karkand - bleed was too harsh for USMC. the game only lasted a few minutes. I think this map would have been awesome though. Perfect for the infantry battles which tactical mod is made for.

mashtuur - this was the map where support, specifically the RPK gun was overpowered. With the increased spawn time you want to sell your life for as much as possible but with the support gun it is just way too easy to destroy a squad.

This was my first time playing this mod so some of these may have just been lack of experience. And most people haven't played the mod very much so some of these things may work themselves out when people adjust to playing tactical mod. All in all though i had a good time and the mod is developping (and has developped) into a great alternative to vanilla

[Kilrogg]

1) Airpower in any form does not belong in this mod. It completely defeats the purpose of an infantry-based mod. There are enough tools such as smoke grenades to break a standoff.

2) Support needs to be limited to 1 per squad or 4-5 per team. The new accuracy when prone was desperatly needed and makes covering fire actually useful but I was in Santa's squad and we just went with 4 support 1 medic 1 AT and it was ridiculous.

3) Medic kit. I think not being able to throw packs is a bad idea. Either you give the medic more ammo and remove the medpack or you leave the medpack and keep the small amount of ammo.

4) Smoke grenades. Might be just me but it seems the smoke grenades were reverted back to the "normal" smoke grenades. In the 2nd and 3rd playtests the smoke grenades seemed to be the "vehicle" smokes which are a lot bigger/thicker. The smokes I used tonight didn't really provide any cover at all and cover is even more needed now with the new support accuracy.

5) As Munchkin said, this mod needs to be played on half-size maps. 32players on 16p maps, 64players on 32p maps.

Overall I did not have anywhere near as much fun as the 2nd and 3rd playtests, it was basically a glorified vanilla game.

[Evanz0rz]

just a few thoughts after playing dalain through halfway through mushtaar

1) completly agree with Kilrogg THERE SHOULD BE NO AIR, i will admint that on dalain i did sort of "whore the copter" but it needed to be done as thats what anyone else would do with the chance to would and anyway it came back once the OpFor got the copter on Zatar and Duke was in the air just owning us (well at least i did turn around with my super speed and hit him dead on with a tank round)

2) I think medics should be able to drop one pack so you can revive then drop a pack for the guy.

3) as im sure you realized already support is just way to powerful as it is and really needs to be changed.

4) I for one do not like having to wait 1 min to spawn and i think it should be 30 seconds no matter what for a couple reasons, one its more fun to not wait around forever, two sometimes you die and its not your fault but you have to wait forever, three i know you are trying to reward players that play smart but i think its to harsh for the players that simply dont have that much talent.

5) and lastly thanks for all the hard work

[James315]

Seems a lot of people felt the jets had been retooled for the game just right. I agree. The blackhawks have also stopped being so overpowered. I see no reason why the attack helo cannot similarly be fixed (e.g. limit armor, limit ammo, decrease reload/repair time, etc.). If it can be fixed, then air power can fit properly into the tactical mod.

I really like the change made to the Support's gun. It's a bit too accurate at long range, so just tweak it down a notch. It's much better this way; cover-fire actually exists.

[Santa]

Even if the support gun's accuracy is toned down, what would be stopping you from not taking that class up? Why would you want to be an assault guy? I guess what im trying to get at is that the support has no weakness compared to most of the other classes. You have body armor, accuracy, high rate of fire, unlimited grenades, and can supply friendlys.\

Oh and that last round tonight with only pistols was the shiznizzle.

[Strag]

Originally Posted by Kilrogg

2) Support needs to be limited to 1 per squad or 4-5 per team. The new accuracy when prone was desperatly needed and makes covering fire actually useful but I was in Santa's squad and we just went with 4 support 1 medic 1 AT and it was ridiculous.

I didn't get to play in the playtest tonight, but from what I've read so far the beefed up Support gun is overpowered and therefore a common complaint. This same sort of problem existed in Battlefield: Vietnam, to the point that everyone just ran around as the Heavy Assault (machinegunner) class.

As already suggested, if a squad can be limited to only one of this class, it should solve the problem.

[aculle01]

I like the idea of limiting the number of support in a squad and if we can limit the number of bags he can carry it will prevent the infinite grenades.

[Dark Viper]

I personally didn't have any problem with overpowered support or choppers tonight.

I don't know why so many complained about them on Dalian when both teams get 2 choppers and 2 planes.

The plane and chopper were no burden at all on Zatar, because the 2 medics in my squad were on the ball with the revives.

I had a beef with Karkand though. My squad went all the way around and took 1 of the flags and we were still on bleed.
Starting scores ---------------------------------------- Ending scores
USMC - 150 ---------------------------------------------------- 00
MEC --- 100 ---------------------------------------------------- 75
Umm k so we have to attack and take 2 out of 3 flags right off the bat? Unbalanced if you ask me.

Many complained of the support on Mushtaar. My squad spent a rather uneventfull game down at the powerplant where we never got attacked so I wouldn't know.

All in all, I still prefer vanilla BF2 for the arcade gameplay. Props to Duke and others for releasing another version though.

[SgtDuke]

Originally Posted by shawn

is it possible to do something like counterstrike where you can fly around the map or follow through a teammates eyes.

When you are "killed" (either immediately or after having been "critically wounded") you can press 'C' (your cycle camera key) to spectate your teammates.

[Kilrogg]

whaaaaaat? I've never heard of that...good to know

[tau_neutrino]

I was in an M1A1 tank and hit the Chinese transport chopper with a tank round and it didn't die. Are there any plans on making transport choppers a bit easier for tanks to kill?

Otherwise I didn't play enough to give any other kind of feedback (had some RL stuff to take care of)

[Delta_Swift]

I did not playtest the Mod so take my comments with a grain of salt.

I think that the Support Class should be deadly as hell. I think he should be able to take out a whole squad if they are in the open. However, I agree that there should not be more than one per squad. In BF2, support gunners are either CQB crazies or simply battlefield attention whores. They either go in for the close kills or they simply attract every enemy within sight with their huge muzzle flash and pathetic accuracy. I agree that it sounds like the support needs to be adjusted. Just be careful not to make him useless again. I like the idea of having to duck and cover because I know that SAW will take my head off if I pop up, just as long as there is only one per squad. Otherwise I can see how that would get a little rediculous.

[munchkin]

Originally Posted by Kilrogg

1) Airpower in any form does not belong in this mod. It completely defeats the purpose of an infantry-based mod. There are enough tools such as smoke grenades to break a standoff.

Ladies and gentlemen, the chopper master has spoken. If you don't know his reputation, this guy completely owns in the air, and if he doesn't want air power then it shouldn't be there. Seconded.

2) Support needs to be limited to 1 per squad or 4-5 per team. The new accuracy when prone was desperatly needed and makes covering fire actually useful but I was in Santa's squad and we just went with 4 support 1 medic 1 AT and it was ridiculous.

Agreed. Having class-limits imposed on squads would go a great way towards balance, and the support class is now overpowered

5) As Munchkin said, this mod needs to be played on half-size maps. 32players on 16p maps, 64players on 32p maps.

Exactly my sentiments...what an odd coincidence...
Seriously though, I feel that having this in place goes a long way to increasing one's enjoyment of the mod. My rationale is that an increased number of players and a smaller area will contribute more to keeping players cautious than turning the game into a meatgrinder - there was too much of a temptation today to play the game as if it was Vanilla, and I think this affected the mood greatly.

Overall I did not have anywhere near as much fun as the 2nd and 3rd playtests, it was basically a glorified vanilla game.

Sad to say, this is also true for the few rounds I played. I'm thinking that I liked 0.3 more for some reason, which I can't quite pin down. Oh well. Hopefully the reduced map sizes and more players should make the Tactical Scrim more enjoyable.

[Ransack]

Originally Posted by SgtDuke

When you are "killed" (either immediately or after having been "critically wounded") you can press 'C' (your cycle camera key) to spectate your teammates.

I had no idea about that either....thanks.