Always look both ways before crossing

Wulfyn · 12-11-2005, 08:31 AM

This is an important lesson in staying alive, and was the tragic end to what could have been a decent achievement (with thanks to millipede the medic!).

Karkand, late o'clock, I was leading a squad with LuckyShot, James315, Gunrack, millipede, and wussypoo. We immediately decided to spawn at th factory, and grab the armour. I split the squad into 2 teams, Gunrack, James, and Lucky as engineers to get the armour. The rest of us would act as a 'behind enemy lines' squad, with me as spec ops, milipede as medic, and wussypoo as a support.

Things went well, with us securing 2 of the 3 armoured assets (which eventually led to gunrack being pulled back into the infantry squad), and we went for a rapid drive across the river into the west side to try and maintain ticket bleed for as long as possible. Well by this time we had already lost the hotel, so I set the armour up as a patrol group north of the square, whilst the infantry dived down the east.

Avoiding the majority of gun battles to the east, and calling out targets we got lucky and james to do the bulk of the killing whilst we proceeded on the mission. A few minutes hike and we were in the enemy UCB. The scan and UAV were quickly taken down. We were fairly convinced at this point that they had no CO at the time, so we left the area to head north. In particular there was a squad on the east wall that looked to be using the high ground to initiate contact with our armour. We sprinted into position, with weapons red in order to get into position. Some good fireteam discipline from the squad led to contact being initiated with a GL blast, and with so much firepower coming from a direction that they had no awareness or cover from, we quickly cut them down.

The next few minutes were spent battling it out in the streets of southern karkand, as the team sought to retake the hotel and square. Having acheived this we noticed that a squad was back in that eatern position, and so we ambushed them as well / again. Moving up to their location we noticed that the battle had swung dramatically north, and Santa was crossing the river in an APC. His passenger (I forget who) had jumped out, and he took a few hits, but not enough to down him. We sprinted across the river trying to catch him from behind - I had c4 ready, but around 15m short he moved off. Not wanting such power in our back flags we crossed again, and after checking the factory was clear I set up a c4 trap on the flag. Now the enemy was pushing the gatehouse (and had neutralised it) so we moved up there to engage. Thanks to the APCs we had it was a fairly quick defence.

Then as I crossed the road Gunrack ran me over

Not a bad little run that personally racked me up 10 kills without a death. I was kinda seeing if I could go a whole round without being killed! We were set on defence at that point, but late on we got back across the river. I stayed more low key at this time, not wanting to waste the c4 trap on the factory flag as we were a little light on defenders now (just 1 squad). A second death to arty was all i suffered.

Great job to my squad despite the 100 ticket loss. It was frustrating as although we seemed to be doing well, we were just slowly losing tickets tot he enemy. From the original 50 behind we stayed even pegging for half the map, and then gradually lost out until the final result. Thanks to all the guys for making SL so easy, and congrats on the squad's 2-1 KD ratio (not bad for an entire squad).

Lucky Shot · 12-11-2005, 01:29 PM

Most of my kills were to those AT Gophers who would pop up for a second, fire, then duck behind cover. The nice thing about the APC was that even behind the wall, I was able to continue to kill them by hitting shells off the wall behind them. There was no cover for the US forces.

The US made great use with their vehicles, especially in supporting their troops. When we did make our push with our armor, we went down quick. When we let them come to us, we made the US pay for any ground they gained.

Definitely good games and a great group of squad mates!

Lucky Shot

Santa · 12-11-2005, 01:37 PM

For the first half of that map my squad kept trying to bring all the armor up and make a breakthrough. WAY too much defense. On one of our attempts on the south land bridge, we came up the ramp and i saw a tank staring at me, 2 apcs behind it, at on the side, and C4 set up on the ramp. No ammount of teamwork could stop that. Whoever was squad leading that had definatly done that defense before, because thats exactly how it should be setup.

For the rest of the round my squad pushed up on the train from the suburb and kept hte enemy from coming up. A few times we were pushed back to our suburb flag, but we made quick work of the armor and proceeded to push back down.

The reason we won was because we had 3 western flags, so that required the MEC to attack us constantly and it was an uphill battle for them. Very easy to repel and easy to rack up kills and slowly increase the lead. I hope i get to CO against that setup for MEC, cuz i got a ridiculously crazy plan against it

James315 · 12-11-2005, 02:20 PM

Lucky and I were a good Engineer Armor team on that map, making use of the mutual-repair function which is, in my opinion, underrated. APC's can be knocked out by two AT rockets to anywhere on the vehicle, but with mutual-repair they are quite formidable. The only way to kill one of these at a distance is to have three AT rockets fire nearly simultaneously against one target. Even on TG, such coordination is rare.

More frequently, we got killed by people sneaking in close with an AT mine or C4.

Otherwise, we slowly roamed the narrow streets racking up kills, using our armor to shelter each other as we kept getting pelted by AT rocketeers who popped out from every angle. It was more like Strike at Tenochtitlán.

Gunrack · 12-11-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfyn

Then as I crossed the road Gunrack ran me over

Not a bad little run that personally racked me up 10 kills without a death. I was kinda seeing if I could go a whole round without being killed!

You still have me cracking up about that, Wulf, even though it was unintentional (You're probably thinking, "Unintentional?, yeah right. You just wanted to end my streak."). It was funny 'cause it seemed that about the time you mentioned that you had a nice little kill streak going on (10), clumsy Gunrack (me) runs you over in the vodnik.

Anyway, great job SLing Wulfyn on Karkand, and on all the rounds I played on your squad; that definitely was fun. I think our team with the help of your squad won every round that night (at least the times I was on), except for Karkand. Just a shame we lost that round. If the map had the ticket bleed back on the way it was, we probably would have won. Shoot, we controlled the whole east side for most of the round, plus the train accident a lot of the time.

I also want to say great job by Lucky Shot (engineer) and James315 (engineer) in the armor, and by the rest of the squad (wussypoo (assault, support), millipede (medic), myself (assault)). Lucky Shot & James were on fire that round, just wiping up everyone in their APCs without really dying much at all, considering all the AT fire they were getting. I mean, two shots from an AT, and the APC is usually down. Anyway, they kept a nice tight formation in the APCs as engineers, coordinated their efforts with excellent communication, and made the rest of the squad's jobs seem easier. They just seemed like two brothers out there.

Good games.

Kilrogg · 12-11-2005, 02:49 PM

84 kills with no vehicles :>

Wulfyn · 12-11-2005, 03:20 PM

Also meant to say a great job to the Opfor CO, (MA)WalkaboutTigger. A really good CO, and a pleasure to be a SL under his leadership for the 3 rounds that happened.

A good example was how he broke the river stalemate with the use of the APC team in my squad. We pushed hard at that area, and the infantry from all the other squads did a great job clearing the way for the armour. Lucky and James then went to push through, with Lucky being taken down en route.

James made it to the suburbs, but didn't manage to take it. He was a bit disheartened by this until I informed him that his breakthrough caused the US forces to double back to cover the flag. This had allowed squad 7, with a few of my squad to push up hard, and by the time they had finished James off, Lucky had made it back to the suburbs - a great display of defensive APC work.

James315 · 12-11-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilrogg

84 kills with no vehicles :>

How do you put your C4 to use on Karkand? Do you just toss the pack from the top of a building, leave it in a place you know people are going to walk by, or what?

**TG_Bubba** · 12-11-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfyn

Then as I crossed the road Gunrack ran me over

That's because you are used to walking on the wrong side of the street over there.

Delta_Swift · 12-11-2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilrogg

84 kills with no vehicles :>

h4xx0rz!11!1

JMJ · 12-11-2005, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilrogg

84 kills with no vehicles :>

That's easy when you are your own squad and can do whatever you want.

Try that in a 6 man squad.

Kilrogg · 12-12-2005, 12:56 AM

I'm aware of that. Sometimes I just want to go lonewolf and sneak thru enemy lines.

And I use my c4 like grenades pretty much...on Karkand I always try to have the high ground and always stay near cover so I can duck and blow my C4. Stairs especially are deadly for c4, when I know a squad is near me and will come up stairs I just put c4 down at the top and wait for a guy to come up and then blow it, rinse and repeat.

I'm not saying getting so many kills takes a lot of skill, it was just funny to come up behind entire squads that thought they had the river sealed tight and blow them up. Karkand is my favorite map but without bleed it gets extremely boring when it turns into a river stalemate. There is no reason to try to push thru since kills are all that matter. Put bleed back in Karkand and I'll be glad to join a squad...

Wulfyn · 12-12-2005, 08:45 AM

I love Karkand when it gets to a river standoff. Peope say it is boring, but I think it becomes intense. You now own something you know you shouldn't lose, but the risks are high, especially for the MEC.

The best thing about getting to a river stalemate is the joy of attempting the breakthrough. I have played 1 full round of CO, and that was on Karkand.

River Stalemates reached: 1
River Stalemates broken: 1

and if the squad that i got through had gone to the flag i told them to go to we would probably have won the map as well.

-------
Additionally I think that Karkand w/o bleed is one of the best balanced maps. You should always be losing far fewer tickets defending than attacking. The USMC start 50 tickets up, but the MEC have bleed. The MEC CO must decide where he can make better gains, through bleed or kills. There is no way a side that is forced to choose between 1 of 3 chokepoints should be able to be breaking through as easily as they do. The MEC CO should roll back the defence slowly, maximising kills along the way through traps and ambushes (organised by the SL). By the time you reach a river standoff the MEC side should ideally be around 100 tickets ahead.

Yes that's right, you should gain 150 tickets on the attackers in the first half hour, without bleed.

The USMC are now presented with a difficult problem. At 100 tickets behind they are forced to make attampts acorss the river, as they'll never make that back. At 50 ahead there is no way to persuade them to cross. Anything between this is a judgement call. The USMC, at 100 tickets down, can win in 1 way alone - capture of the factory flag. We saw against MA how decisive this is - they attacked and attacked, haemorraghing tickets all over the place. But they made the breakthrough, and won the map.

I think if a few more squads concentrated on improving their defence then we would see most battles in this state, and they would be very tense affairs indeed.

Kilrogg · 12-12-2005, 01:16 PM

There's no reason to push thru without bleed though...that's the thing. Each side has 4 flags and it just becomes a sniper/arty war

Wulfyn · 12-12-2005, 02:02 PM

I have to bump this to say that Operation Clean Sweep is quite good fun when you are hunting the sniping duo of JMJ and Gixxer.

I was really hoping for a revenge knifing, but alas it was Gixxer that felt my wrath

Oh, and JMJ, before you try boasting about the claymore, I had my medic on standby

12-11-2005, 08:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Wulfyn Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norwich, UK Age: 28 Posts: 4,235	Always look both ways before crossing This is an important lesson in staying alive, and was the tragic end to what could have been a decent achievement (with thanks to millipede the medic!). Karkand, late o'clock, I was leading a squad with LuckyShot, James315, Gunrack, millipede, and wussypoo. We immediately decided to spawn at th factory, and grab the armour. I split the squad into 2 teams, Gunrack, James, and Lucky as engineers to get the armour. The rest of us would act as a 'behind enemy lines' squad, with me as spec ops, milipede as medic, and wussypoo as a support. Things went well, with us securing 2 of the 3 armoured assets (which eventually led to gunrack being pulled back into the infantry squad), and we went for a rapid drive across the river into the west side to try and maintain ticket bleed for as long as possible. Well by this time we had already lost the hotel, so I set the armour up as a patrol group north of the square, whilst the infantry dived down the east. Avoiding the majority of gun battles to the east, and calling out targets we got lucky and james to do the bulk of the killing whilst we proceeded on the mission. A few minutes hike and we were in the enemy UCB. The scan and UAV were quickly taken down. We were fairly convinced at this point that they had no CO at the time, so we left the area to head north. In particular there was a squad on the east wall that looked to be using the high ground to initiate contact with our armour. We sprinted into position, with weapons red in order to get into position. Some good fireteam discipline from the squad led to contact being initiated with a GL blast, and with so much firepower coming from a direction that they had no awareness or cover from, we quickly cut them down. The next few minutes were spent battling it out in the streets of southern karkand, as the team sought to retake the hotel and square. Having acheived this we noticed that a squad was back in that eatern position, and so we ambushed them as well / again. Moving up to their location we noticed that the battle had swung dramatically north, and Santa was crossing the river in an APC. His passenger (I forget who) had jumped out, and he took a few hits, but not enough to down him. We sprinted across the river trying to catch him from behind - I had c4 ready, but around 15m short he moved off. Not wanting such power in our back flags we crossed again, and after checking the factory was clear I set up a c4 trap on the flag. Now the enemy was pushing the gatehouse (and had neutralised it) so we moved up there to engage. Thanks to the APCs we had it was a fairly quick defence. Then as I crossed the road Gunrack ran me over Not a bad little run that personally racked me up 10 kills without a death. I was kinda seeing if I could go a whole round without being killed! We were set on defence at that point, but late on we got back across the river. I stayed more low key at this time, not wanting to waste the c4 trap on the factory flag as we were a little light on defenders now (just 1 squad). A second death to arty was all i suffered. Great job to my squad despite the 100 ticket loss. It was frustrating as although we seemed to be doing well, we were just slowly losing tickets tot he enemy. From the original 50 behind we stayed even pegging for half the map, and then gradually lost out until the final result. Thanks to all the guys for making SL so easy, and congrats on the squad's 2-1 KD ratio (not bad for an entire squad). __________________

12-11-2005, 01:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lucky Shot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,636	Re: Always look both ways before crossing Most of my kills were to those AT Gophers who would pop up for a second, fire, then duck behind cover. The nice thing about the APC was that even behind the wall, I was able to continue to kill them by hitting shells off the wall behind them. There was no cover for the US forces. The US made great use with their vehicles, especially in supporting their troops. When we did make our push with our armor, we went down quick. When we let them come to us, we made the US pay for any ground they gained. Definitely good games and a great group of squad mates! Lucky Shot

12-11-2005, 01:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
Santa Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 18 Posts: 3,355	Re: Always look both ways before crossing For the first half of that map my squad kept trying to bring all the armor up and make a breakthrough. WAY too much defense. On one of our attempts on the south land bridge, we came up the ramp and i saw a tank staring at me, 2 apcs behind it, at on the side, and C4 set up on the ramp. No ammount of teamwork could stop that. Whoever was squad leading that had definatly done that defense before, because thats exactly how it should be setup. For the rest of the round my squad pushed up on the train from the suburb and kept hte enemy from coming up. A few times we were pushed back to our suburb flag, but we made quick work of the armor and proceeded to push back down. The reason we won was because we had 3 western flags, so that required the MEC to attack us constantly and it was an uphill battle for them. Very easy to repel and easy to rack up kills and slowly increase the lead. I hope i get to CO against that setup for MEC, cuz i got a ridiculously crazy plan against it

12-11-2005, 02:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
James315 Join Date: Aug 2005 Age: 25 Posts: 673	Re: Always look both ways before crossing Lucky and I were a good Engineer Armor team on that map, making use of the mutual-repair function which is, in my opinion, underrated. APC's can be knocked out by two AT rockets to anywhere on the vehicle, but with mutual-repair they are quite formidable. The only way to kill one of these at a distance is to have three AT rockets fire nearly simultaneously against one target. Even on TG, such coordination is rare. More frequently, we got killed by people sneaking in close with an AT mine or C4. Otherwise, we slowly roamed the narrow streets racking up kills, using our armor to shelter each other as we kept getting pelted by AT rocketeers who popped out from every angle. It was more like Strike at Tenochtitlán. __________________

12-11-2005, 02:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kilrogg Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,146	Re: Always look both ways before crossing 84 kills with no vehicles :>

12-11-2005, 03:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
Wulfyn Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norwich, UK Age: 28 Posts: 4,235	Re: Always look both ways before crossing Also meant to say a great job to the Opfor CO, (MA)WalkaboutTigger. A really good CO, and a pleasure to be a SL under his leadership for the 3 rounds that happened. A good example was how he broke the river stalemate with the use of the APC team in my squad. We pushed hard at that area, and the infantry from all the other squads did a great job clearing the way for the armour. Lucky and James then went to push through, with Lucky being taken down en route. James made it to the suburbs, but didn't manage to take it. He was a bit disheartened by this until I informed him that his breakthrough caused the US forces to double back to cover the flag. This had allowed squad 7, with a few of my squad to push up hard, and by the time they had finished James off, Lucky had made it back to the suburbs - a great display of defensive APC work. __________________

12-12-2005, 12:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kilrogg Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,146	Re: Always look both ways before crossing I'm aware of that. Sometimes I just want to go lonewolf and sneak thru enemy lines. And I use my c4 like grenades pretty much...on Karkand I always try to have the high ground and always stay near cover so I can duck and blow my C4. Stairs especially are deadly for c4, when I know a squad is near me and will come up stairs I just put c4 down at the top and wait for a guy to come up and then blow it, rinse and repeat. I'm not saying getting so many kills takes a lot of skill, it was just funny to come up behind entire squads that thought they had the river sealed tight and blow them up. Karkand is my favorite map but without bleed it gets extremely boring when it turns into a river stalemate. There is no reason to try to push thru since kills are all that matter. Put bleed back in Karkand and I'll be glad to join a squad...

12-12-2005, 08:45 AM	#13 (permalink)
Wulfyn Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norwich, UK Age: 28 Posts: 4,235	Re: Always look both ways before crossing I love Karkand when it gets to a river standoff. Peope say it is boring, but I think it becomes intense. You now own something you know you shouldn't lose, but the risks are high, especially for the MEC. The best thing about getting to a river stalemate is the joy of attempting the breakthrough. I have played 1 full round of CO, and that was on Karkand. River Stalemates reached: 1 River Stalemates broken: 1 and if the squad that i got through had gone to the flag i told them to go to we would probably have won the map as well. ------- Additionally I think that Karkand w/o bleed is one of the best balanced maps. You should always be losing far fewer tickets defending than attacking. The USMC start 50 tickets up, but the MEC have bleed. The MEC CO must decide where he can make better gains, through bleed or kills. There is no way a side that is forced to choose between 1 of 3 chokepoints should be able to be breaking through as easily as they do. The MEC CO should roll back the defence slowly, maximising kills along the way through traps and ambushes (organised by the SL). By the time you reach a river standoff the MEC side should ideally be around 100 tickets ahead. Yes that's right, you should gain 150 tickets on the attackers in the first half hour, without bleed. The USMC are now presented with a difficult problem. At 100 tickets behind they are forced to make attampts acorss the river, as they'll never make that back. At 50 ahead there is no way to persuade them to cross. Anything between this is a judgement call. The USMC, at 100 tickets down, can win in 1 way alone - capture of the factory flag. We saw against MA how decisive this is - they attacked and attacked, haemorraghing tickets all over the place. But they made the breakthrough, and won the map. I think if a few more squads concentrated on improving their defence then we would see most battles in this state, and they would be very tense affairs indeed. __________________

12-12-2005, 01:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Kilrogg Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,146	Re: Always look both ways before crossing There's no reason to push thru without bleed though...that's the thing. Each side has 4 flags and it just becomes a sniper/arty war

12-12-2005, 02:02 PM	#15 (permalink)
Wulfyn Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norwich, UK Age: 28 Posts: 4,235	Re: Always look both ways before crossing I have to bump this to say that Operation Clean Sweep is quite good fun when you are hunting the sniping duo of JMJ and Gixxer. I was really hoping for a revenge knifing, but alas it was Gixxer that felt my wrath Oh, and JMJ, before you try boasting about the claymore, I had my medic on standby __________________

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