CS_Xmas

**SloppyJoe** · 04-24-2006, 12:28 AM

This map is on the server non rotation list. IMHO it should be removed.

Albeit it is a beautiful map, it is quite linear and long, and the last set of hosties has only one entrance point. It is not very PCS and should be liberated to make room for a better map.

Root · 04-24-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe

and the last set of hosties has only one entrance point.

I'm asking this as one who hasn't played the map yet : can the last set not be rescued first, using part of the team as a distraction to draw any guards away?

Pla`/er · 04-24-2006, 04:13 PM

If I'm remembering the map correctly, I think two hosties are down a long set of stairs in a basement and that's the only way to get in. So there shouldn't be a reason to leave them at all, basically just sit and defend. What my team did when we played awhile ago was guard the top door by the hosties upstairs, and another group would guard the tunnel going into the lower floor. Pretty easy stuff since both entrances are narrow, especially the top one.

**Al_Capone** · 04-24-2006, 11:16 PM

Basicly the only way to rescue the hosties that were down stairs is to kill every person or have a T that is not doing his job.

**Vulcan** · 04-25-2006, 02:16 PM

It is possible, since both forces are split up, to effectively take the top area and then hit the bottom area from two directions. Flashes and smoke are a big help here. I've been able to smoke and sneak by T's defending without them knowing, into the cellar.

Apex · 04-25-2006, 04:23 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about this map because I didn't get to play it much.

However, in militia you pretty much have to kill everyone before you can get to the last set of hostages in the garage as well.

I'm not sure how this map is much different in that regard.

**Al_Capone** · 04-25-2006, 05:11 PM

The things about militia is that there is more than one entrance point. On cs_xmas there is only one way to get to the cellar hosties.

Apex · 04-25-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al_Capone

The things about militia is that there is more than one entrance point. On cs_xmas there is only one way to get to the cellar hosties.

This is true, but can we really say that the attic is an entrance point? Trying to get through that window is practically a death sentance even with smoke. Flashing it is nearly useless with all the boxes in the way.

**Al_Capone** · 04-26-2006, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex

This is true, but can we really say that the attic is an entrance point? Trying to get through that window is practically a death sentance even with smoke. Flashing it is nearly useless with all the boxes in the way.

It maybe impossible to get through that attic window but it is an entry point.

Fearfull Dave · 04-26-2006, 07:52 AM

I have never played on Xmas but like root said it is possible to draw the T's away. However when I play Kismayo (not a similar map just a similar circumstance) when the T's win is when they stay hidden by one set of hostages in easily defensibly positions. I believe personally that if this map was put on rotation or played on server1 that most people would hide in the room that is in question.

Root · 04-26-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex

This is true, but can we really say that the attic is an entrance point? Trying to get through that window is practically a death sentance even with smoke. Flashing it is nearly useless with all the boxes in the way.

I'm damn good at locking down the attic on militia. Even so, give me enough variables to worry about, and a poorly co-ordinated team, and it becomes damn easy to take me down and come in via the window. Lucky shots, and good positioning are also a threat to anyone trying to prevent the CT's coming in.

**SloppyJoe** · 04-26-2006, 08:17 PM

The map is very long and linear, with 2 routes that lead to the building that the hostages are held in. I believe the designer meant this for the T's to spread far out from the hostage building and make it like and alley shoot em up as CTs make it down these paths. However, that idea doesn't seem very PCS to me to spread The T's far out from the hostage area.

When the CTs make it to the hostage building there are 2 very tight paths to get into the building and one set of hostages with only one path (down stairs into a wine cellar) to the second set.

What this would effectively do would
1) every round there would be a substantial waiting period as the CTs wind their way across 75% of the map to the near-hostage area.
2) The battle would be very similar and repetitve every round to get into the same tight areas.

Yawn factor of 9.5

stormseeker · 04-27-2006, 05:54 PM

There was a reason for having a lack of routes into the hostage location. It reduced the gameplay time by 3 minutes, and smaller groups could play the game without searching for ages.

The location of the hostages in the cellar reflects the placements I would make for hostages, were I a terrorist. Putting them in a location with very few access points. Its tactically hard I know, but so far all of the games I have played on this, have turned out fairly even.

Hostage maps are designed to have the terrorists take up defensive positions at spawn, whilst this may not seem like a very balanced way to do it, in reality it is often like this. It promotes almost a 100% need for team tactics on the CT side, whilst the terrorists don't really need that much cohesive teamplay. The SAS have much harder missions to undertake quite often.

Perhaps for next Christmas I will expand xmas and update it with a new route from the main street into another house and down to the cellars from there.

Root · 04-27-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stormseeker

Hostage maps are designed to have the terrorists take up defensive positions at spawn, whilst this may not seem like a very balanced way to do it, in reality it is often like this. It promotes almost a 100% need for team tactics on the CT side, whilst the terrorists don't really need that much cohesive teamplay. The SAS have much harder missions to undertake quite often.

Welcome, Stormseeker.

It's not often that someone comes to our forum and already gets it. That's most refreshing, on top of which, you make maps. Please, do take the time to read our SOP's, and join us on our server.

stormseeker · 04-27-2006, 06:10 PM

I value all criticism though, as It helps the design process. Currently I'm working on a huge SP mod so as I say, if i have time i'll expand xmas to include a further route.

Originally this map was designed to have a sewer network running from the first cellar to the second and also into the main hall, this i found lengthened the gameplay to around 7 minutes rather than 5, and almost doubled the time it took to find people.

I apologise for the linear fashion, i'm more of a Single Player designer, currently working on a major project called Wiccanwood.

Oh and whereabouts in South East England?

04-24-2006, 12:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
SloppyJoe Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 2,257	CS_Xmas This map is on the server non rotation list. IMHO it should be removed. Albeit it is a beautiful map, it is quite linear and long, and the last set of hosties has only one entrance point. It is not very PCS and should be liberated to make room for a better map. __________________ . Serving the [4th Force Recon] since June 2007 [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ Armed Assault ][ Counter-Strike Source ][ Call of Duty ] "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves." - Wulfyn

04-24-2006, 04:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
Pla`/er Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southern Cali Posts: 41	Re: CS_Xmas If I'm remembering the map correctly, I think two hosties are down a long set of stairs in a basement and that's the only way to get in. So there shouldn't be a reason to leave them at all, basically just sit and defend. What my team did when we played awhile ago was guard the top door by the hosties upstairs, and another group would guard the tunnel going into the lower floor. Pretty easy stuff since both entrances are narrow, especially the top one.

04-24-2006, 11:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Al_Capone Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 88	Re: CS_Xmas Basicly the only way to rescue the hosties that were down stairs is to kill every person or have a T that is not doing his job.

04-25-2006, 02:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Vulcan Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Age: 30 Posts: 7,762	Re: CS_Xmas It is possible, since both forces are split up, to effectively take the top area and then hit the bottom area from two directions. Flashes and smoke are a big help here. I've been able to smoke and sneak by T's defending without them knowing, into the cellar. __________________ TG Primer - CSS SOP's - INS SOP's My Computer: Asus P5q - e8400 - gtx 260 - 4gb ram - Seagate 32MB cache 2x500 GB Raid 0 Vista Ultimate 64 - Audigy 4 - G15 - MX 400 professional - KDS 17" CRT monitor

04-25-2006, 04:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
Apex Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 102	Re: CS_Xmas I'm not sure how I feel about this map because I didn't get to play it much. However, in militia you pretty much have to kill everyone before you can get to the last set of hostages in the garage as well. I'm not sure how this map is much different in that regard.

04-25-2006, 05:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
Al_Capone Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 88	Re: CS_Xmas The things about militia is that there is more than one entrance point. On cs_xmas there is only one way to get to the cellar hosties.

04-26-2006, 07:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
Fearfull Dave Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: U.S. Age: 18 Posts: 170	Re: CS_Xmas I have never played on Xmas but like root said it is possible to draw the T's away. However when I play Kismayo (not a similar map just a similar circumstance) when the T's win is when they stay hidden by one set of hostages in easily defensibly positions. I believe personally that if this map was put on rotation or played on server1 that most people would hide in the room that is in question.

04-26-2006, 08:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
SloppyJoe Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 2,257	Re: CS_Xmas The map is very long and linear, with 2 routes that lead to the building that the hostages are held in. I believe the designer meant this for the T's to spread far out from the hostage building and make it like and alley shoot em up as CTs make it down these paths. However, that idea doesn't seem very PCS to me to spread The T's far out from the hostage area. When the CTs make it to the hostage building there are 2 very tight paths to get into the building and one set of hostages with only one path (down stairs into a wine cellar) to the second set. What this would effectively do would 1) every round there would be a substantial waiting period as the CTs wind their way across 75% of the map to the near-hostage area. 2) The battle would be very similar and repetitve every round to get into the same tight areas. Yawn factor of 9.5 __________________ . Serving the [4th Force Recon] since June 2007 [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ Armed Assault ][ Counter-Strike Source ][ Call of Duty ] "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves." - Wulfyn

04-27-2006, 05:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
stormseeker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: south east uk Posts: 2	Re: CS_Xmas There was a reason for having a lack of routes into the hostage location. It reduced the gameplay time by 3 minutes, and smaller groups could play the game without searching for ages. The location of the hostages in the cellar reflects the placements I would make for hostages, were I a terrorist. Putting them in a location with very few access points. Its tactically hard I know, but so far all of the games I have played on this, have turned out fairly even. Hostage maps are designed to have the terrorists take up defensive positions at spawn, whilst this may not seem like a very balanced way to do it, in reality it is often like this. It promotes almost a 100% need for team tactics on the CT side, whilst the terrorists don't really need that much cohesive teamplay. The SAS have much harder missions to undertake quite often. Perhaps for next Christmas I will expand xmas and update it with a new route from the main street into another house and down to the cellars from there.

04-27-2006, 06:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
stormseeker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: south east uk Posts: 2	Re: CS_Xmas I value all criticism though, as It helps the design process. Currently I'm working on a huge SP mod so as I say, if i have time i'll expand xmas to include a further route. Originally this map was designed to have a sewer network running from the first cellar to the second and also into the main hall, this i found lengthened the gameplay to around 7 minutes rather than 5, and almost doubled the time it took to find people. I apologise for the linear fashion, i'm more of a Single Player designer, currently working on a major project called Wiccanwood. Oh and whereabouts in South East England?

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