Tactical decision......

[Backlash-7]

Those of you that SL on a regular basis can answer this best I believe. Lets say your given the choice to assault one of two positions by the CO. In one of those positions is a dug in in-house squad. In the other is a dug in Irregulars squad. Which would you choose to hit and why? I only ask because it seems that during the scrim and pretty much any time in game when theres an Irr squad we get hammered. Oh make no mistake we damn sure hold our own and I'll put my bullet riddled butt and a squad of Irr's up against any in-house any day. I was just wondering if ya'll look at the Irr's as a tactical weakness for the opposing team. Either way it just makes us harder and stronger.

Yup I'm as hard as woodpecker lips.

[Lucky Shot]

Originally Posted by [TG-Irr]Backlash-7

Those of you that SL on a regular basis can answer this best I believe. Lets say your given the choice to assault one of two positions by the CO. In one of those positions is a dug in in-house squad. In the other is a dug in Irregulars squad.

Probably not a fair question as I would never bounce between 2 different flags trying to figure out which squad is weaker. I would hit whichever flag is either dictated via CO, or based on my experience offers the best advantage for my side (good vehicles, or even a flag that may be lighter defended but gives me bleed, positioning, etc...).

Only in rare circumstances would I steer away from a dug in, in house squad. The only reasons would be if I tried at least twice before and determined their advantage is too great, or that the amount of fight required to take it would be less to hit a different flag.

I don't know if I personally have seen a full irregulars squad in a while. And no, I would not specifically look to find an irregulars squad to pound the snot out of. But if I did find them, be assured, I will bring all of hades down to make sure I take that flag from ya!

Lucky Shot

[millipede777]

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

Probably not a fair question as I would never bounce between 2 different flags trying to figure out which squad is weaker. I would hit whichever flag is either dictated via CO, or based on my experience offers the best advantage for my side (good vehicles, or even a flag that may be lighter defended but gives me bleed, positioning, etc...).

Exactly. The important part isn't who is defening it, it's what they're defending.

[Rick_the_new_guy]

In nature, matter takes the path of least resistance.

It really depends how important the flag is. If the flag spawns a tank, we need to get that. If the C.O. has a good squad (most likly a in-house squad) defending a flag that does not give much tactical advantage, and a inexperinced squad defending an important instillation, that C.O. does not have their stuff together.

I would not focus too much on this Backlash. All the times i have been SL and the C.O. has given me an order to attack an instillation they have not given me intell on the type of fight all be up against (besides U.A.V. support and spotting) or given me a chose on what to attack. The just want it done.

After the engagment you either say, wow, that was a pretty good squad we took down, or Yeah, we got owned by that squad. YOu always take down a good squad. That way the new guy will be build up confidense. Confidense goes a long way on the battlefield.

If defending and u get beat down. take responsibilty for the lose, the SL fails the squad, the member does not fail the squad. Tell the squad what u believe went wrong and how to better correct the issue next time. Again, the SL gives out Confidense to the members and takes in all the stress from the members. Why, cause u can handle it.

Like you said, every time the beat down happens, you learn from it. Your TG brothers and sisters makes you stronger.

[Drizzid]

There isn't a team, squad or inhouse squad that will take into consideration who is defending. When you are told to take a flag that is what you do reguardless of who is defending it. The tags in front of their name doesn't mean anything until after you have taken it. If that tag reads TG or 7th or IRR you know it's an accomplishment if you have achieved your goal.

I was the CO for the scrim and the Irregs squad did the best they could do. We lost that map due to a few factors that were out of our control and to a superior team. We had a lot of inexperience on our side when we had the scrim and it showed. We learned and we will use that experience in our next scrim.

[eGoatBoy]

Originally Posted by [TG-Irr]Backlash-7

...it seems that during the scrim and pretty much any time in game when theres an Irr squad we get hammered.... I was just wondering if ya'll look at the Irr's as a tactical weakness for the opposing team...

Interesting topic. I have a couple thoughts (WARNING: diatribe imminent):

The Irregulars are about integrating new players into the TG community, and giving non-SM's a squad that they can be affiliated with. In a way the Irregulars has turned into quite the 'farm team' for the other in-house squads. I know that ex-Irregulars now occupy the 12th, 1stMiP, E1st, and 33rd. Our talent pool is continually being turned over...but the overall result is that we raise the skill level of the entire TG community.

The last scrim we had (TG Old School vs TG New School, Smokescreen*/Great Wall/Taraba) was the first time that I'm aware of that the Irregs fielded a squad...and I have played in the TG vs TG SF Scrim, the TG vs TAW Scrim, the TG vs IMO scrim, and the TG vs TG CO Duel. In each of these Irregs members plugged holes in other squads or were dropped into informal squads. We have another opportunity coming up with TG vs TG Inishail where we have actually rostered a full Irregs squad.

I'm realistic enough to know that an experienced, well drilled, in-house squad full of some of the best players in the game will likely get the better of an Irregs squad most of the time. That said I've seen plenty of games where our members have done some outstanding work.

"Getting hammered"...all other things equal, then yeah it could happen. It is relative though. The fact that we work together as a team makes us potent...a squad of Irregs on any server is not going to be a push-over. If you can stomach the smacktards, then get a squad of Irregs on a pub raid and watch the "Best Squad" accolades roll in over and over. Teamwork is the best weapon...better than twitch anyday.

"Tactical weakness"...no, I don't think so. An Irregs squad is a tool like any other squad to be used by the CO. We are general purpose infantry or armour by and large. Every team needs it's Running Backs

Good on you Backlash for pointing out the elephant in the room...makes for good discussions.

Anyway...I have ranted.

Cheers.

NB: On Smokescreen note that we were having our armour shredded by 2 Irregs who ended up on the opposing team...I believe they got grounded for that

[kornkobcom]

The CO can't usually tell which enemy squad is defending a specific point. I guess if the SLs reported back who they were running into it is possible but, frankly, in a 64 player game when I'm CO I don't have time to micromanage at that kind of level.

Orders are issued based on their tacticla advantage, not who is there.

[Wulfyn]

For me if I had a choice and all other things were equal it would depend not upon which squad was defending but upon the SL. Defending is very much about control and preparation, whereas attacking is about creativity and loss of control. Some very good SLs are much better at one than the other (given a choice you'll never see Bommando or Santa asking me to assault a key and well defended enemy position but they quite regularly made me a lynch pin to a defensive line).

[Backlash-7]

Good discussion folks. I first want to say that I in no way intended to down play any of the efforts and dedication of my brothers. I also know that an Irr squad is usually comprised of less experienced players but damn we try hard. I know that the CO or SL has no way of knowing who's in the opposing squad, that was all hypothetical (that's my big word for the week) in the situation. On a tactical note though it makes sense to take on the least experienced or least able to defend entity in combat. I was just wondering if any of you took that into account when advancing on a flag or position. I know for a fact that I look to see who killed one of my guys when they go down. If it's an in-house member then I'll take a few seconds to rethink the attack plan considering that there may well be an entire in-house squad up there. If one of my guys goes down and the killer is a name I've never seen I'll usually press the attack and bank on our teamwork to overcome any exceptional players located on the objective. It's just one of those things that runs through an SL's mind when he's pushing his troops past the limit of endurance and positive strength. If I see TG33rd******* (AK-47) ****** in red then I've got a good idea that there is a 33rd squad up there and I need to stall for about 3 seconds and reassess the situation. I know my guys hate to hear me say "Hold up! Dig in! That's the 33rd/12th/1st up there!" but as a rookie SL I want to give my troops the best possible chance to take that objective with minimal casualties and still be an effective force for the CO to utilize. These are the things that make me a "slow" or "weak" SL. I like to slow down and take a good long look at what we are up against before I start throwing bodies at what could be (for us) an unattainable objective. Just wanted to clear that up. Thanks.

[Lucky Shot]

Would it be worthwhile thinking that it may be the worlds best squad at every flag your attacking and set up for it? The best advice I can give you is that the Irregulars have in the past made mistakes, but for the most point they document how they have moved beyond it. Minimize repeating those mistakes by reading through what your prior irregulars figured out. Beyond that, keep your guys a little tighter together on attacks, take your time, and move on that flag en masse.

Irregulars used to have guys who would squad up in Abra's league and at times have had 2 full squads on the regular TG servers. You should start more custom squads titled irregulars and watch 'em come out of the wood work.

Lucky Shot

[sordavie]

I'd like to see some full irregular squads on server 1 once in a while. We used to have full irregulars squads named 'arrgh' or 'pirates'. Don't see that much these days.

[eGoatBoy]

Originally Posted by [TG-Irr]Backlash-7

...I want to give my troops the best possible chance to take that objective with minimal casualties and still be an effective force for the CO to utilize. These are the things that make me a "slow" or "weak" SL. I like to slow down and take a good long look at what we are up against before I start throwing bodies at what could be (for us) an unattainable objective...

Sounds like damn smart playing to me!!

Cheers.

[BaneII]

Hmmm. I would attack whatever position was closet and proceed to wipeout all the defenders. Then I would go over to the other position and wipeout all the defenders. I am an equal opportunity killer. Dogs of War dont discriminate.