cs_Italy_tactik2

**TheBigC** · 08-21-2006, 06:04 PM

Here are a few notes I have noticed on this map:

The map is horrible!!!

There are way too many map exploits for this map to even considered to remain on the server.

You can shoot through all the walls. Next time you are shot, follow the kill shot angle, it most likely goes through a solid wall.
The shadows are extremely flawed. Your opponent can see you through walls every time. They can also see you if you are upstairs in the house and they are underneath you, that is how bad the shadows are.

The map is laid out well as far as game play, but the exploits makes for a miserable time once people have figured that out.

And yes, now you all know!!

Until this map is fixed we need to consider removing it.

Greflin · 08-21-2006, 08:45 PM

Most of the walls in most maps can be shot through with the proper gun. And in house shadows are the same on Italy for my machine you can always see people upstairs. It's a CSS issue not really this maps issue.

Which wall are you talking about speceficaly? In the hsotage house you get shot through the walls all the time on any version of italy. Its because the walls are not concrete. I dont know that i have ever been shot through a concete wall. but a normal wall I have gotten shot through many times. Just wondering.

**TheBigC** · 08-22-2006, 07:34 AM

Specically the walls in the new rooms i.e. DarkRoom, Sewer, and the new one when you come out from the appartment.
As for the shadows, this map is a allot worse than any stock map. If you pay attention you can see somebody through virutually all walls. If you were to stand at the end of long hall you could see someone hiding in the house behind the front wall. The best example of this is when you approach the new room coming out of the apartment on the right (the ones with the trees in it?!), you can always see someone hiding in there by thier shadow.

poe · 08-22-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigC

Specically the walls in the new rooms i.e. DarkRoom, Sewer, and the new one when you come out from the appartment.
As for the shadows, this map is a allot worse than any stock map. If you pay attention you can see somebody through virutually all walls. If you were to stand at the end of long hall you could see someone hiding in the house behind the front wall. The best example of this is when you approach the new room coming out of the apartment on the right (the ones with the trees in it?!), you can always see someone hiding in there by thier shadow.

It must be your configurations, because I have no such thing.

I like this map, but I don't think it's one that should be played a lot. If there's a good PCS crowd on, it's a fun/good map, though.

Greflin · 08-22-2006, 04:18 PM

A lot of it does depend on your settings, and shadow settings, if you turn them low or off due to your system you will not be able to see what he describes. Shadows in general are bad with CSS because of showing through walls. Happens on every map really, more so depending on your settings, and the map.

**Rincewind** · 08-22-2006, 04:58 PM

can shadows be disabled server side?

Root · 08-22-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rincewind

can shadows be disabled server side?

I'm not aware of such a setting, but if someone is better informed, they can share the info and I'll try it out.

**TheBigC** · 08-22-2006, 06:38 PM

So are we saying that somebody that has the shadows turned on high now has an huge advantage? Maybe. But for some reason the only two maps that I have any issues close to this are cs_Haste and this one. The rest are fine.

Fearfull Dave · 08-24-2006, 07:10 PM

yeah a person with their shadows on the highest setting will have an advantage. I keep all of my settings on high and on alot of custom maps the shadows can be bad in spots. most of those have been removed/not on TG.

Spectrums · 05-31-2007, 08:57 PM

Ok, we had a dispute today while playing. We had a T on my team move up into apartments and take the top to guard the middle. We had complaints about this and we knew a dispute was upcoming. So, here is the post to dispute! A ruling would be nice.

**MagnaCentipede** · 05-31-2007, 09:38 PM

As far as I know it's considered illegal defense. I was thwacked with ye olde rolled up newspaper for getting in that little pocket with the paintbucket to stop any of that silly long-mid-long-mid-long dancing. (Turned out they were so used to mid being unwatched they wanted to rush it and wound up draining my P90's entire magazine.) So yeah... Italy's so T-sided by nature that advanced positions are always frowned upon as far as I can tell.

ednos · 05-31-2007, 09:43 PM

I've seen PCS players do it in the past; I have no objections.

**† Disciple †** · 06-01-2007, 07:29 AM

Just because PCS player has been seen to do it doesn't mean that its an up for grabs tactic. Theres been alot of this recently and im just gonna use a parents classic line "If your friend jumped off a cliff would you?" Maybe your friend knows how to fly! What im saying is maybe that PCS knew how to communicate appropiately with his team and knew that he had cover from team mates that would mean he could gather intelligence and be able to retreate safely with covering fire.

ednos · 06-01-2007, 12:25 PM

I'm not excusing the fragmonkey who hunts the apartments for Atomic Dog and other easy kills; I'm saying it *is* a legitimate tactic, and I list my example with the PCS players as evidence. It may not always be appropriate, but it's not straight up banned.

**Atomic Dog** · 06-01-2007, 12:30 PM

Ednos has a good point. This position is key to the map on many an occasion. I've seen a lot of fragmonkeying going on in the apartments, I've also seen a lot of excellent communication and tactical maneuvering in regards to this same building.

Again, what it's always come down to on our server is intent and communication. Securing the apartments solidifies defenses for T's and keeps this important location out of the hands of CT's, as such it is a perfectly sound tactic to secure it.

Rushing off right off the bat without saying a word to your team of your intentions or location does nothing for your team. It's blatant kill hunting and it should be frowned upon by everyone. However, only your team will know of this. CT's will have no way to tell the difference. But again, CT's should be prepared regardless of how they feel about boundaries in this map. You should not step out of your spawn without being ready for a fight.

08-21-2006, 06:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
TheBigC Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Around Age: 36 Posts: 2,927	cs_Italy_tactik2 Here are a few notes I have noticed on this map: The map is horrible!!! There are way too many map exploits for this map to even considered to remain on the server. You can shoot through all the walls. Next time you are shot, follow the kill shot angle, it most likely goes through a solid wall. The shadows are extremely flawed. Your opponent can see you through walls every time. They can also see you if you are upstairs in the house and they are underneath you, that is how bad the shadows are. The map is laid out well as far as game play, but the exploits makes for a miserable time once people have figured that out. And yes, now you all know!! Until this map is fixed we need to consider removing it. __________________ The Meek shall inherit the earth..... after we're through with it! The Wounded Warrior Project, help support my friends

08-21-2006, 08:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
Greflin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wichita KS Age: 27 Posts: 207	Re: cs_Italy_tactik2 Most of the walls in most maps can be shot through with the proper gun. And in house shadows are the same on Italy for my machine you can always see people upstairs. It's a CSS issue not really this maps issue. Which wall are you talking about speceficaly? In the hsotage house you get shot through the walls all the time on any version of italy. Its because the walls are not concrete. I dont know that i have ever been shot through a concete wall. but a normal wall I have gotten shot through many times. Just wondering.

08-22-2006, 07:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
TheBigC Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Around Age: 36 Posts: 2,927	Re: cs_Italy_tactik2 Specically the walls in the new rooms i.e. DarkRoom, Sewer, and the new one when you come out from the appartment. As for the shadows, this map is a allot worse than any stock map. If you pay attention you can see somebody through virutually all walls. If you were to stand at the end of long hall you could see someone hiding in the house behind the front wall. The best example of this is when you approach the new room coming out of the apartment on the right (the ones with the trees in it?!), you can always see someone hiding in there by thier shadow. __________________ The Meek shall inherit the earth..... after we're through with it! The Wounded Warrior Project, help support my friends

08-22-2006, 04:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Greflin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wichita KS Age: 27 Posts: 207	Re: cs_Italy_tactik2 A lot of it does depend on your settings, and shadow settings, if you turn them low or off due to your system you will not be able to see what he describes. Shadows in general are bad with CSS because of showing through walls. Happens on every map really, more so depending on your settings, and the map.

08-22-2006, 04:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rincewind Join Date: May 2005 Location: Casting useless spells in Oklahoma. Age: 27 Posts: 2,738	Re: cs_Italy_tactik2 can shadows be disabled server side? __________________ ~~ Veritas simplex oratio est ~~ No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett <---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are. Required Reading for all TG sandboxers

08-22-2006, 06:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
TheBigC Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Around Age: 36 Posts: 2,927	Re: cs_Italy_tactik2 So are we saying that somebody that has the shadows turned on high now has an huge advantage? Maybe. But for some reason the only two maps that I have any issues close to this are cs_Haste and this one. The rest are fine. __________________ The Meek shall inherit the earth..... after we're through with it! The Wounded Warrior Project, help support my friends

08-24-2006, 07:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
Fearfull Dave Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: U.S. Age: 18 Posts: 170	Re: cs_Italy_tactik2 yeah a person with their shadows on the highest setting will have an advantage. I keep all of my settings on high and on alot of custom maps the shadows can be bad in spots. most of those have been removed/not on TG.

05-31-2007, 08:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
Spectrums Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 15 Posts: 139	cs_italy_taktic Ok, we had a dispute today while playing. We had a T on my team move up into apartments and take the top to guard the middle. We had complaints about this and we knew a dispute was upcoming. So, here is the post to dispute! A ruling would be nice. __________________ ------------ ------------

05-31-2007, 09:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
MagnaCentipede Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,899	Re: cs_italy_taktic As far as I know it's considered illegal defense. I was thwacked with ye olde rolled up newspaper for getting in that little pocket with the paintbucket to stop any of that silly long-mid-long-mid-long dancing. (Turned out they were so used to mid being unwatched they wanted to rush it and wound up draining my P90's entire magazine.) So yeah... Italy's so T-sided by nature that advanced positions are always frowned upon as far as I can tell. __________________

05-31-2007, 09:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
ednos Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,762	Re: cs_italy_taktic I've seen PCS players do it in the past; I have no objections. __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

06-01-2007, 07:29 AM	#13 (permalink)
† Disciple † Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Garden Of England Age: 21 Posts: 1,873	Re: cs_italy_taktic Just because PCS player has been seen to do it doesn't mean that its an up for grabs tactic. Theres been alot of this recently and im just gonna use a parents classic line "If your friend jumped off a cliff would you?" Maybe your friend knows how to fly! What im saying is maybe that PCS knew how to communicate appropiately with his team and knew that he had cover from team mates that would mean he could gather intelligence and be able to retreate safely with covering fire. __________________ "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." Winston Churchill

06-01-2007, 12:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
ednos Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 3,762	Re: cs_italy_taktic I'm not excusing the fragmonkey who hunts the apartments for Atomic Dog and other easy kills; I'm saying it is a legitimate tactic, and I list my example with the PCS players as evidence. It may not always be appropriate, but it's not straight up banned. __________________ The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

06-01-2007, 12:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 4,003	Re: cs_italy_taktic Ednos has a good point. This position is key to the map on many an occasion. I've seen a lot of fragmonkeying going on in the apartments, I've also seen a lot of excellent communication and tactical maneuvering in regards to this same building. Again, what it's always come down to on our server is intent and communication. Securing the apartments solidifies defenses for T's and keeps this important location out of the hands of CT's, as such it is a perfectly sound tactic to secure it. Rushing off right off the bat without saying a word to your team of your intentions or location does nothing for your team. It's blatant kill hunting and it should be frowned upon by everyone. However, only your team will know of this. CT's will have no way to tell the difference. But again, CT's should be prepared regardless of how they feel about boundaries in this map. You should not step out of your spawn without being ready for a fight. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

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