time to end the love-fest.

[burble]

nah, not really. but with so many positive threads, i'd like to start one with my PoE gripes. :P

for now, i'm trying to look past the fact that the servers are currently as bad as they were last year when BF2 first came out- lots of newbies, hard to find good teamwork, ect. it's not the server's fault, it's just the influx of new people in a new game.

but besides that, this game really has some glaring problems, imo.

first and foremost is that it seems like they've made everything more deadly- except the infantryman. is it realistic for me to go down from one shot from .50cal machinegun or splash damage from a tank round? sure. but it damn well isn't realistic for it take me more AT rounds than i even have to down said tank. if they're going to make the armor more deadly and harder to hit (via the downgraded AT weapons and possible richochets), it needs to go down in two shots, three, max.

the airpower was the biggest problem with vanilla, and now they've tweaked it to be slightly more powerful while giving the armor steroids to match it. bleh.

oh, and the arty, too. sure, it's harder to setup that just clicking a map, but it's capable of decimating everyone defending a flag, repeatedly, while staying within the safety of enemy lines. glurg.

i really wish we could get a mod that wasn't such an infantry slaughterfest. between the air, the armor, the arty, and the fact that anyone NOT mounted is probably a sniper, it's just not fun.

oh, and THEY TOOK MY PISTOL AWAY.

[burble]

p.s. i hate the maps, too.

the layout of most of the maps isn't too bad, it's the CP's that are problematic. there are no stronghold flags like in regular BF2- most of them are arranged in such a way that even a friendly flag is likely to have enemies running around, making CP defense a bit of a cluster...fork...

[TychoCelchuuu]

Possibly, your problem is not that infantry is underpowered, but that you are attempting to take out a tank alone. I think the best way to take on armor is to either use your own armor, or to have a teammate or two also target the tank. I mean, seriously. One on one, I don't want an infantryman to have any chance at all of taking down armor. That would be crazy.

It's the same deal with the arty. It's really not that tough to blow those things up. A tank, an AT guy, a helicopter, a jet, some mines, or some C4 will do it, and they can't do anything to stop you.

[BHack]

I disagree. Though I can see why'd you think that.

The point of PoE was to enhance the rock paper scissors theme by pigeonholing the respective classes/vehicles more. This forces more teamwork and hopefully strategy.

You can see it in how they took grenades away from everyone except spec ops, lowered ammo counts or reduced gun power of classes that aren't really supposed to be fighting infantry, increased tactical nature of armor use (deflection, chaff use, armor ratings), focused power of air assets but forced teamwork to use said power. The list goes on.

I think the end result is a rock is more of a rock, paper is more paperish, and scissors are sharper and more dangerous to run with.

As an example: attack helos. The rockets now can annihilate infantry, much larger blast radius. The Anti tank capabilities allow you to decimate an armor column quickly, etc. They upped the power all around. However, they dispersed the power more evenly in such a way that you NEED a gunner to use it to its full potential. The gunner systems work in such a way that you almost have to have a VoIP channel with the pilot to use it effectively. To combat these beasts, the AA in the game is dramatically beefed up and can absolutely annihilate helos. Pilots need to be much more careful and coordinate with ground troops to stay alive long.

eh, I like it.

[ABRA]

PErsonally the wooded crashsite and and dark farm/church maps with no air or armor vehicles have yielded the best infantry battles I have ever seen in any version of BF2, possibly of any online MP FPS I have played. They have been the most intense, and tactics-friendly as any I have seen.

[burble]

Originally Posted by TychoCelchuuu

One on one, I don't want an infantryman to have any chance at all of taking down armor. That would be crazy.

welcome to the real world.

there is no 'damage' associated with anti-tank weapons- either the rocket pierces the armor and immolates everyone inside, or it doesn't. i'm willing to accept that one-shot kills would be unfair ingame, but 2-3 hits should do it, not 5 or more (very rarely do you have a shot at the back of a tank when defending a CP).

if the only counter for armor is other armor, the game is seriously flawed. it's rock-paper-scissors, not rock-rock-rock. :P

You can see it in how they took grenades away from everyone except spec ops, lowered ammo counts or reduced gun power of classes that aren't really supposed to be fighting infantry, increased tactical nature of armor use (deflection, chaff use, armor ratings), focused power of air assets but forced teamwork to use said power. The list goes on.

the only problem i have with this, from my experience, is that they've ruined the AT class. don't want me to fight infantry? fine. the military doesn't want pilots fighting infantry, either, but they still give them sidearms. 4 AT rockets and 3 worthless SMG mags is pathetic. if i don't have room for a pistol or a stockpile of magazines, then i should be carrying at least 8-10 AT rounds. imo. i was playing last night, and was drained of all ammo from about two minutes of flag defense, and had to resort to running around knifing people. not very 'tactical.'

[Lekdevil.NL]

Originally Posted by burble

but it damn well isn't realistic for it take me more AT rounds than i even have to down said tank. if they're going to make the armor more deadly and harder to hit (via the downgraded AT weapons and possible richochets), it needs to go down in two shots, three, max.

But it *does* go down in two shots: when hit in the rear; or three shots: when hit in the sides. When using the AT pickup kit, it only takes two shots in the sides to kill it, even.

[BHack]

Originally Posted by burble

welcome to the real world.

there is no 'damage' associated with anti-tank weapons- either the rocket pierces the armor and immolates everyone inside, or it doesn't. i'm willing to accept that one-shot kills would be unfair ingame, but 2-3 hits should do it, not 5 or more (very rarely do you have a shot at the back of a tank when defending a CP).

if the only counter for armor is other armor, the game is seriously flawed. it's rock-paper-scissors, not rock-rock-rock. :P



the only problem i have with this, from my experience, is that they've ruined the AT class. don't want me to fight infantry? fine. the military doesn't want pilots fighting infantry, either, but they still give them sidearms. 4 AT rockets and 3 worthless SMG mags is pathetic. if i don't have room for a pistol or a stockpile of magazines, then i should be carrying at least 8-10 AT rounds. imo. i was playing last night, and was drained of all ammo from about two minutes of flag defense, and had to resort to running around knifing people. not very 'tactical.'

Hence the need for a support in your squad to re-arm. Again, increasing the necessity for teamwork. Armor isn't overpowered at all. You CAN kill it in 2-3 hits. Have you noticed all the tall grass in the maps? Try going prone in that and wait for a side/rear shot on the tank. Don't spazz out and start firing rockets as soon as you see it. You can take all the time you need. The armor doesn't get a warning buzzer like in vanilla telling him theres an AT around. I really just think you need to play the game more and stop thinking of your strategies in terms of vanilla. Things feel the same, but work somewhat differently.

If the flag you are attacking gets attacked by say 2 or 3 pieces of armor, yes your squad should loose it. Even if you have 3 AT guys. In this case you need to spawn in the back to pull up the armor (which drives faster and doesn't take as long to move around a map) or call in a helo which can obliterate the armor.

[FBmantis]

I like the AT class. Takes a bit more thinking to actually use it now. Some of my favorites moments in this mod are setting up a mine field on a path and then once the enemy armor sees them and stops I ambush them from the rear. Granted I will agree that on the snow maps where there is no terrain based cover that life is pretty rough for an AT. A tank can just sit outside your flag and cause a lot of trouble. I hope they up the AT speed...I think that would help things a bit.

[icky]

Originally Posted by burble

(very rarely do you have a shot at the back of a tank when defending a CP).

I find that I almost always get a shot at the side or back of any attacking tank. I think you need to get more used to careful defense. It is enabled by the fact that there is no UAV or radar, and there is lots of cover. You can lie in the grass with AT and let tanks roll right past you before you put a shell in their back.

I think PoE will get better and better as people learn to take advantage of stealth.

Originally Posted by burble

if i don't have room for a pistol or a stockpile of magazines, then i should be carrying at least 8-10 AT rounds. imo. i was playing last night, and was drained of all ammo from about two minutes of flag defense, and had to resort to running around knifing people. not very 'tactical.'

I too feel that the AT should have a pistol. At least one which is effective at short range. I run out of ammo quite frequently with AT. The good news is that stealth allows you to hide until you can get resupplied.

[Mayfield]

Originally Posted by icky

I find that I almost always get a shot at the side or back of any attacking tank. I think you need to get more used to careful defense. It is enabled by the fact that there is no UAV or radar, and there is lots of cover. You can lie in the grass with AT and let tanks roll right past you before you put a shell in their back.

I agree with this, but considering how lethal tanks are to infantry there has to be some lethality of infantry to tanks. The AT should be a one shot kill when it hits directly in the rear of an APC, and an almost one shot kills when it hits the rear of the tank. No questions asked. I do not mind that it takes 5 hits on the front as that is just stupid to aim for the front of the tank. But if I am going to be mince meat as an infantryman I want the reward of using stealth and tactics by killing the tank one shot.

How come the reward for just laying a mine in the right spot is a one shot kill, but the reward for putting your butt on the line and hiding in the grass is two shots?

[Acid]

It should be a one hit kill for the tracks of a tank, or at least set it smoking. You can have rear and front armor, but the tracks are pretty much wide open and can be blown off.

[WhiskeySix]

what'd be cool is if hitting the tracks just immobilized the tank.

[Acid]

Yeah, thats what I was thinking, or mabey have it take damage if it continues to move around.

[P8riot]

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

what'd be cool is if hitting the tracks just immobilized the tank.

NOW that is a POSITIVE statement.