No Means No

[Lucky Shot]

School accuses 5 year old of sexual harrassment.

http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=d...7&format=print

Lucky Shot

[Sparticus]

Wow...good thing we don't beat our children to death anymore...oh wait, isn't that called punishment....and I don't recall paddling someones behind beating to them to death, maybe if they didn't remove the bible or SOMETHING with MORALS from the school system this crap wouldn't happen

[freekyE]

This has nothing to do with the lack of the bible in the classroom......did you read the article?

This has everything to do with over-sensitive retards running our school system. They say themselves that the student knows nothing about sex, so why not explain it in 5 year old terms......"you dont do that because its a nono."

Administrators like this are why Im in the major I am instead of being an education major.

[Lucky Shot]

Well, he is speculating that this behavior wouldn't happen if they taught morals in school. I neither agree nor disagree. Some might speculate that punishment along the lines of "Sexual Harrassment" will lead to a need to teach our kindergardners what sex is when they hit 4 and 5 years old. Otherwise, why call the punishment sexual harrassment? The whole ordeal is pretty outrageous, but it's a different world than the one I grew up in.

Subject: Past and Present.

Scenario: Jack pulls into school parking lot with rifle in gun rack.
1973 - Vice Principal comes over, takes a look at Jack's rifle, goes to his car and gets his to show Jack.
2006 - School goes into lockdown, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.
1973 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.
2006 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1973 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by Principal. Sits still in class.
2006 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his father's car and his Dad gives him a whipping.
1973 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2006 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. Billy's sister is told by state psychologist that she remembers being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some headache medicine to school.
1973 - Mark shares headache medicine with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2006 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario: Mary turns up pregnant.
1973 - 5 High School Boys leave town. Mary does her senior year at a special school for expectant mothers.
2006 - Middle School Counselor calls Planned Parenthood, who notifies the ACLU. Mary is driven to the next state over and gets an abortion without her parent's consent or knowledge. Mary given condoms and told to be more careful next time.

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.
1973: Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2006: Pedro's cause is taken up by state democratic party. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he can't speak English.

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1973 - Ants die.
2006 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary, hugs him to comfort him.
1973 - In a short time Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2006 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job.
She faces 3 years in State Prison.

Lucky Shot

[derdmeh]

I doubt a 5-year old doesn't know anything about sex. I don't know whether to define it as "sex" or what, who knows? When I was in Kindergarten, my friend Robert and I posed as "under the table painters" so that we could wheel each other under the table on our wooden fire-truck and look up the girls' skirts. Nice red lyotards, man!

Basically, I knew something for sure. What's so hard to believe?

Precious innocent children, oh I love them. <3 <3 Except St. Augustine said something to the effect of: good F'ing thing those things are so small, or else we'd all be in a lot of trouble.

I'm not saying grown-ups aren't looking for a pretext to do some pretty stupid things. That's money in the bank.

[CingularDuality]

Kindergarten is where lessons about appropriate social conduct should be taught. This is ridiculous.

Look at how real those scenarios are that Lucky posted, and then fear for society.

[Steeler]

To be fair, Lucky, a lot of your scenarios are pretty absurd, and even if true, would be the isolated exception to the norm. I'll be the first to argue that our public sphere has become more and more panicky, stupid, and reactionary, but then recall that once you could be ostracized simply for being suspected of looking kinda like someone who may or may not have been a Communist. Or a Jew. Or black. So these kinds of outrageous public responses to minor things have been with us for the better part of two centuries.

I think the fact that we have ubiquitous media coverage ravenous for drama allows ridiculous items to spread, which in turn contributes to reactionary paranoia. "Hey, that school has an anti-terrorist lockdown procedure with electric fences - we need one with attack dogs!" "And if he can get 5 million from the St. Louis schools for failing geometry, think of what my kid can get from Santa Monica for flunking calc!" And so on.

[leejo]

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Kindergarten is where lessons about appropriate social conduct should be taught.

That's really the point isn't it? Children so young are learning these rule, and we expect them to have poor judgment. A series of time outs should do the trick. A suspension is almost certainly a terrific burden on the parents.

Butt-grabbing and slapping was all the rage in 6th grade, as I recall. I'm not sorry that no longer seems to be acceptable behavior but things seem to have swung a tad too far in the other direction.

I don't mean to pour fuel on the fire, but I think it's really interesting that social conservatives - the people who call the FCC about Janet Jackson's tit - are rarely associated with this sort of overreaction. Instead it's associated with a more activist philosophy. Sending a 5-year old home for pinching a butt seems so prudish, but maybe is much more an assertion of femine power.

Either way, it's pathetic to beat up on a 5-year old or to use one to make a point.

[leejo]

On second thought, I bet it's neither. It's fear of litigation. Really all you can do in the school district's shoes is draft a sensible policy and be scrupulous about following it. A decent plaintiff's attorney will make any exception seem like wholesale endorsement of sexually harassing behavior. Most policies can be made to look silly on occasion. Fortunately they can be revised.

[Hambergler]

What litigation? How does one know if their advances are unwanted until after they make them? Everyone should get one freebee! Those teachers need to stop hatin' on the little playa!

[Faultline]

Originally Posted by leejo

On second thought, I bet it's neither. It's fear of litigation. Really all you can do in the school district's shoes is draft a sensible policy and be scrupulous about following it. A decent plaintiff's attorney will make any exception seem like wholesale endorsement of sexually harassing behavior. Most policies can be made to look silly on occasion. Fortunately they can be revised.

Agreed. Schools have to be proactively defensive no matter how ridiculous it might seem. People sue, a lot. Even if there is not a successful lawsuit there's plenty of negative publicity for the school.

It's similar to, what I like to call, "stupid people warnings". You know the ones you see on a power drill that say, "DO NOT insert into nose and initiate power to drill". SPW's are the result of some jackass sticking a power drill up his nose and ripping half his face off, then suing the manufacturer of the power drill (true case).

[CingularDuality]

Originally Posted by Faultline

Agreed. Schools have to be proactively defensive no matter how ridiculous it might seem. People sue, a lot. Even if there is not a successful lawsuit there's plenty of negative publicity for the school.

Right, but you can be proactive without overreacting in the wrong direction. The actions taken in this case were not necessary to protect them from any sort of liability.

[Faultline]

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Right, but you can be proactive without overreacting in the wrong direction. The actions taken in this case were not necessary to protect them from any sort of liability.

Completely agree. Just saying that the more ridiculous measures that are put in place to mitigate such problems (and the resulting over reactions) are usually a result of unnecessary lawsuits. Ultimately though, they should have used better judgement.