Rooftop Spawning

[johnflenaly]

I find this to be a really lame tatic on maps like camp gilbralter and berlin. Were you have ppl "exploting a flaw in the squad becon" to get a sl beacon on top of the roof. I understand maps with air vehicles 9 times outta 10 its not a problem on those maps.

[Eroak]

Originally Posted by johnflenaly

I find this to be a really lame tatic on maps like camp gilbralter and berlin. Were you have ppl "exploting a flaw in the squad becon" to get a sl beacon on top of the roof. I understand maps with air vehicles 9 times outta 10 its not a problem on those maps.

John, I'm not sure who's squad I was in yesterday but we did use this tactic and I was in a full squad of TG. Here's what I learned, gathered, and my opinion:

1st, it's not effictive like my SL said. We were not doing any damage and we took a good squad out of the game for many minutes. I took out 2 APC's and possibly saved a few lives at best. But other then that we didn't do much.

2nd, It's next to impossible to distroy a SL becon on a roof. I think there should be a added rule here. If you spawn and land on a roof, so be it and do what you want. It most likely wont be much. Next, No becons on the roof (no aircraft maps). It is a exploit. The emeny will have a extremly tough time to get it and it opens up a spawn point to flank that the emeny can't do anything about.

Just my opinion

[SaladFork]

I agree completely with what has been said so far. Although spawning an entire squad on a roof probably wastes valuable resources, it is still a considerable annoyance to the other team, and I'm sure it wasn't intended to be done by EA.

By dictionary definition, it is an exploit.

~Salad

[Revark]

I have to agree with the "no beacons on roofs that have no air vehicles" concept.

Can we see about adding that? If you land there from a beacon next to a building so be it. At least people who dont want to exploit the beacon spinning dont have to use it to get to your beacon this way.

[SuperDudeBT]

Originally Posted by Bommando

I don't see a problem with it. So far, DICE have not come out and said this is an exploit. As far as effectiveness goes, it's not too different to HALO drops. It's certainly annoying for your opponent, but in my opinion, your squad would be much more useful on the ground. I have picked up a bunch of rocket kills from building campers without them posing any real threat to my flag.

From: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ht=beacon+spin

And, as far as a SL going up stairs/ ladders (if that's what you guys are talking about), and dropping a beacon there.. I see that as a perfectly acceptable tactical strategy. If it's annoying to the other side, then they need to pull a couple of troops to search for, and destroy the beacon.

/My opinion

[Zoraster]

Putting a spawn beacon on a roof that's not easily accessible by anything other than an orbital strike can be effective if used right. It is ineffective usually to put a whole squad up there, but it doesn't have to be used that way.

There are two problems with spawn beacons:

1) If you spawn in, your Situational awareness is pretty much nonexistant, and people can camp it.

2) It can be destroyed fairly easily even when relatively hidden.

But putting the beacon on the roof makes both of those things neglible risks. Put a spawn beacon on the roof, have a good sniper on the roof picking people off, and have the rest of the squad spawn in and then you can pick which side of the building you want to parachute to, giving you a large advantage over ground based squads that don't have direct (interior, for military stategists) lines.

Simply camping a roof is usually an ineffective strategy for the following reasons:
1) Your squad's ability to damage is severely limited.
2) Other players will spot you much quicker.
3) The CO will be more inclined to take a look at that rooftop and orbital strike your team and your spawn beacon.

But if you don't stay up there, that beacon is probably going to last a long, long time, the sniper you leave up there will probably cause as much damage as your squad could have anyway and won't be noticed easily, and you have interior lines on enemy squads. Additionally, if you leave just a sniper up there, the CO has a choice to either orbital strike him off and essentially waste an orbital strike, or just leave the sniper there and hope someone can rocket him off.

So, yeah. I think if it's an abuse (which it definitely at least borders on) then it's a significant issue once people really figure out how to use squads with it.

[TheSaboteur]

+1 for no roof exploits

[Foxoq]

I don't think it's a huge problem.

1) A squad on a rooftop, like Eroak said, is fairly ineffective at engaging the enemy. They have limited mobility, cannot flank, and the opfor will always know where they are. They can be easily suppressed with rifle rockets, support guns, and sniper fire. Any height advantage is negated by the fact that they have to expose their silhouette against the skyline in order to return fire, making them easy targets.

2) A normally unaccessible rooftop is not very big in most circumstances, and an orbital strike will clear the entire thing and the spawn beacon.

Having a squad camp a rooftop is just a tactically bad decision in most circumstances, and it's so easily countered I don't think its necessary to outlaw it.

$0.02

[Fehmart]

While there are merits to both sides of the rooftop discussion, to be completely fair to at least one particular case, I think we should disapprove of it: Suez Canal, Inner Bridge Lock roof.

PAC has two gunships from their UCB that they can use to continuously place squads on this rather large area, making orbital strikes pretty worthless. Furthermore, once the EU gunship goes down, it gets camped to no end by the rooftop squad(s), who can easily camp a CO asset, a walker spawn, and parachute directly onto the CP. There is no amount of AA that can stop gunships from reaching this location. I have participated in rounds that have revolved around inner bridge roof.

That's my 2 cents.

[Eroak]

Originally Posted by Fehmart

While there are merits to both sides of the rooftop discussion, to be completely fair to at least one particular case, I think we should disapprove of it: Suez Canal, Inner Bridge Lock roof.

PAC has two gunships from their UCB that they can use to continuously place squads on this rather large area, making orbital strikes pretty worthless. Furthermore, once the EU gunship goes down, it gets camped to no end by the rooftop squad(s), who can easily camp a CO asset, a walker spawn, and parachute directly onto the CP. There is no amount of AA that can stop gunships from reaching this location. I have participated in rounds that have revolved around inner bridge roof.

That's my 2 cents.

That is valid, but I do see it being a workload for admins as it happens often. On the city boards it's much rarer and does give a staging point that I believe was never intended.

[ThePenguineer]

Originally Posted by Fehmart

While there are merits to both sides of the rooftop discussion, to be completely fair to at least one particular case, I think we should disapprove of it: Suez Canal, Inner Bridge Lock roof.

PAC has two gunships from their UCB that they can use to continuously place squads on this rather large area, making orbital strikes pretty worthless. Furthermore, once the EU gunship goes down, it gets camped to no end by the rooftop squad(s), who can easily camp a CO asset, a walker spawn, and parachute directly onto the CP. There is no amount of AA that can stop gunships from reaching this location. I have participated in rounds that have revolved around inner bridge roof.

That's my 2 cents.

I'm not as angry about the roof spawning as I am about Je-lo insertion. It wasn't tolerated in BF2 on TG servers, and it does upset me that some do think that it is acceptable 100 years into the future.

[Frodric]

I've always thought this tactic was iffy and I've used it several times. First, even getting reliable use of the one Air asset is questionable given the open server. Second if the rooftop squad is packing AA gear (even motion mines) forget it. They will bring the bird down eventually and then a nice little X of motion mines on the EU helo pad or walker spawn insures those assets are worthless even if you take the positon back. I don't know what Peng means by Je-Lo insertion uless you mean sacrificing an air asset for drop. However if so, I've seen the squad leader as gunner on the Helo. That means the gunship isn't a sacrifice but a taxi. Mind you one with AT rockets.

[experiment626]

Originally Posted by Frodric

I've always thought this tactic was iffy and I've used it several times. First, even getting reliable use of the one Air asset is questionable given the open server. Second if the rooftop squad is packing AA gear (even motion mines) forget it. They will bring the bird down eventually and then a nice little X of motion mines on the EU helo pad or walker spawn insures those assets are worthless even if you take the positon back. I don't know what Peng means by Je-Lo insertion uless you mean sacrificing an air asset for drop. However if so, I've seen the squad leader as gunner on the Helo. That means the gunship isn't a sacrifice but a taxi. Mind you one with AT rockets.

I think that she is refering to using the Je-los for capturing flags. I.E., the Jelo hovers over the flag point until it converts, then proceeds to the next one. That tactic is STILL not allowed on the server and should be reported. You have to have boots on the ground to cap a flag. Now using a transport to shuttle you from one place to another is perfectly acceptable, and this is generally called Vertical Insertion, or just insertion.

And as far as roof beacons go...they are just plain not effective. But i may be bias, as I don't care for airpower in general...bad experiences with BF2 and PoE. Although airpower in 2142 is not near as out of balance as it used to be.

[Maus]

I don't like spawning on roofs personally, as I tend to have a 'chute failure when I'm trying to get back into the fray.

Or at least, I didn't mind roof spawning til recently, because now unless I'm in a TG squad on Belgrade my SL and his cohorts spend the game poncing around on a roof and not doing anything for the team.

+1 for roof spawning in principle, even if it's a dumb and pointless tactic
-1 for roof spawning in practice

[jepzilla]

Originally Posted by experiment626

I think that she is refering to using the Je-los for capturing flags. I.E., the Jelo hovers over the flag point until it converts, then proceeds to the next one. That tactic is STILL not allowed on the server and should be reported. You have to have boots on the ground to cap a flag. Now using a transport to shuttle you from one place to another is perfectly acceptable, and this is generally called Vertical Insertion, or just insertion.

And as far as roof beacons go...they are just plain not effective. But i may be bias, as I don't care for airpower in general...bad experiences with BF2 and PoE. Although airpower in 2142 is not near as out of balance as it used to be.

Er, last I checked, vertical capping has never been against the rules, just the BF2 Gentleman's Agreement. However, in one of the BF2 patches, EA negated any advantage of vertical capping by having only one person inside a vehicle count for capping speed, and this behaviour has been carried over to 2142.

There's actually another name for a gunship hovering close to the ground, capping a flag. Sitting duck.

I agree about squads on rooftops though. DICE doesn't consider it an exploit, and a squad on a rooftop is just not a threat.