PoE2 Feedback

[[tR]Greasy_mullet]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to thank you all for supporting PoE and having a great server to play on. I also was very excited to see that you will be including the fan made map pack in the rotation which is absolutely awesome! Those guys did an amazing job and I hope ALL PoE servers run them and all fans download them. We will be pushing hard to get them noticed as well to hopefully get everyone to get them.

Being one of the most populated servers for PoE2, I thought it would be a good idea to get some feedback on things from some of the people who play PoE the most. How you guys are enjoying the maps, vehicles, hand weapons, and so on? After reading through the forums and noticed a bit of talk about Spies Like Us (did not know this was a hot issue) and the Vepr (knew this was a hot issue). I can not guarantee everything posted will be fixed or implemented but I will promise that the dev team will hear about it and take it into consideration.

So please take the time to offer some feedback and any suggestions for improvement you might have especially for the maps (I am a mapper :P). Thanks guys!

Mullet

[Tempus]

Hey Mullet! Great to see you stopping by. It's a pleasure to have you.

To the TGers reading.. Guys, this is a great opportunity for you all to help shape future improvements in the game. Be constructive, concise, and to the point.

[Lucky Shot]

I want to say, I very much enjoy the game and play it almost on a nightly basis. It's tough to beat free, especially when it's clear so much hard work when into it.

Suggestions:

1) Spies Like Us. Yea everyone complains about the weapons (Vepr, but the German Support is deadly too). I don't feel it's the weapons that have created an imbalance, but rather the uniforms. The Ukraine, if they are cast against the night sky, or lying by the base of trees, are impossible to spot. The German uniforms can make them stealthy, but due to the halo effect around the soldier (Bright around the soldier for 20 feet, murky outside of that range) German soldiers can be spotted at long distances. Because of it, the Germans are having a tough go at it and are losing often times by 200-350 points. (see post 2 http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...e-germany.html) The point is that although Germany can use these tactics to move around, the Ukraine side currently has little need as they are stealthy without it.

2) CO Position. The CO position is weakened from what we were used to in BF2 and now 2142. In those 2 games, you could not afford to not have a CO. In POE, everything is dependent on the Squad Leader and the Squad. So apart from coordination, spotting, the CO doesn't have much to do. Give them more assets for reconaisance or even make the smoke more distracting (Turn it into Mustard Gas, or Flash Bangs). Certainly don't overpower the CO role, but it would be nice to see people lining up for the CO position like they do a chopper.
(reference http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ition-poe.html)

3) Map Balance. Overall, I like the map balance on many maps. Fallen, Orel, Carpathian, First Snow, Dnister River are all very well balanced maps. I think the reason why Carpathian is so high on my list of maps is that it's easy to insert an infantry team to any flag, but there are a high amount of obstacles for armor to be able to assault a flag. It's tough to move armor throughout the map, so even though there's a lot of it, it doesn't just sit on a hill and shell you at a distance. I would like to see more maps along these lines where it's easy enough to apply the Rock, Scissors, Paper method of gameplay to win. One kit isn't strong enough and it requires 4 or 5 to get any job done (encouraging Squad Level Teamwork).

Other maps come close but lack certain key characteristics. Guardian comes to mind as one where there are plenty of chokepoints, but the air power decimates the ground. Zhytomyr gives too much advantage to the Ukraine as the Germans are fighting uphill and in many cases are exposed on attacks. Sambir, would be outstanding as the flags are isolated, tons of armor, but only 1 fixed AA against very strong air (on both sides). Rolling Thunder leans Ukranian only because of the positioning of the river. 3 flags west of the river, 2 east. (TG Poll on maps they want to see http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...-rotation.html and http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...-rotation.html)

4) Vehicle Balance. I won't touch aircraft as I think everyone has different opinions on different aircraft. I think the Shilka is generally misused as an infantry killer then an Aircraft Killer. However, the one that has me most intrigued is the Ukraine Tank that has a guided missle and the fact that the Ukraine APC's float but the German one's do not. It's a silly thing, but that can make enough of a difference in gameplay and I don't know that the German's have something that I missed to offset that balance.

Thanks for giving me a platform to identify what I see as some balance issues in what I consider to be an outstanding mod! Thanks again for your hard work!

Lucky Shot

[Sawviper]

I would like to second everything Lucky just said especially the opening part about how much I enjoy this mod. It is amazing that so much work went into this mod just for the satifaction of doing a great job.

On the other points I would have to agree with them all. The VEPR could maybe use a slight tuning to bring it into line with the G36, but I don't want to see the class ruined like it was in BF2 vanilla.

I think the main thing on any of the maps retaining balance and great gameplay is cover. I think the main reason Carpathian is a favorite among a lot of TGers is the fact that with all of the elevation changes and trees it allows armor/vehicles/infantry to move on the flags without being shelled from clipping range. Maps such as Fallen, Orel and Spies Like Us are the same with undulating hills lots of trees and in the case of Orel buildings.

When it comes to air maps I would like to see lots of cover from the air also. Maps such as Rolling Thunder are just a invitation for a skilled pilot in the Frogfoot to decimate the German armor. On the Frogfoot I don't want to see its power diminished but I would like to see a upgrade in the Anti-Air capabilities against jets.

I think another issue when it comes to air power, and I think it has been discussed here at TG is that it takes 5 people to man the German jets but only 3 for the Ukraine. That means two more infantry/armor on the ground. That combined with the Tornado's missles being signifigantly less effective than the Frogfoot's carpet bombing, the Foxbat's better air superiority role and the Ukraine getting two AA units to the German one means the German side is severely lacking on any air maps.

Even counting some of the above issues I think the POE2 mod is still superior to Vanilla BF2 because of the removal of UAV and Scan. Those two elements are the main hinderance to any tactical movement in BF2 and even worse in 2142 with their UAV, Scan, Scanners and recon drones.

Thanks again for your hard work guys and I hope you find our suggestions helpful.

[[tR]Greasy_mullet]

Great feedback, please keep it coming.

[icky]

It bears repeating:
Spies is imbalanced by the uniforms primarily. The UKR side is nearly invisible when not moving and the GER side look like they are wearing bright white uniforms with a giant black light over them. The same applies to other snow maps, but the presence of armor and the more varied terrain makes it less obvious as a problem.

[icky]

For everyone providing feedback, please try to consider the maps we don't play and the reasons why. We would be very happy to expand the map rotation again.

Oh another thing...
BF2CC provides a setting for "No Vehicles". I'm not sure what this does, but I know it has no effect in PoE2. If it can be made to have an effect, we might be able to have an occasional infantry-only night.

[WhiskeySix]

I think it'd be interesting to play some of the wide-open maps with no air once in a while.

[BigBill]

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

I think it'd be interesting to play some of the wide-open maps with no air once in a while.

AMEN to That Whiskey !!!

[jmaker]

Originally Posted by icky

For everyone providing feedback, please try to consider the maps we don't play and the reasons why. We would be very happy to expand the map rotation again.

How can we provide feedback if we don't even play them? I can't even remember the names of the maps we don't play.

Again, what LuckyShot has already mentioned seems to be the main points that come up. But I will of course emphasize the imbalance on Spies Like Us. Germany always loses regarding the aforementioned issues with the uniforms. That to me is the biggest issue concerning POE2. Please mention this to the devs.

[icky]

Originally Posted by jmaker

How can we provide feedback if we don't even play them? I can't even remember the names of the maps we don't play.

Those who voted for the maps to be removed will have an opinion, I'm sure.

[Finestyle]

Hi GM,

I dont really have the time ATM for a long winded post, but I just want to say a hugh thankyou to yourself and the rest of the POE devs for producing a fantastic mod, I really hope you guys stick by your work and continue producing these delights for BF2 despite what seems to be a recent slump in people playing, for me its the primary platform for my BF2 gaming, (vBF2 clangames and tourneys excluded) and as long as there are servers hosting POE2 then I'll be playing it.
Sometimes I feel like I have cheated you guys out of £40.00 because I downloaded it for free,its that good!

Continue the great work guys, Finestyle.

[[tR]Greasy_mullet]

I personally am the most interested in the maps being a mapper. If something is not getting play then lets hear about it and why.

[Beatnik]

For me (and quite a few others) it's the ability of air assets to dominate the game on certain maps, e.g. Highway to Hell. On that map in particular, there's wide open fields with no cover between CPs, so that anyone not in a dingo is blasted all to hell en route on their assaults. I won't touch that map any more due to that issue. First Snow is another map that infantry squads are pretty useless on due to wide open spaces with no cover. If any vehicle gets within 300-400m of you, you're done for. Those are definitely the two biggest issues I've seen in the initial POE map packs.

Our in-house mapper Kilrogg (who's been MIA for the past few months) designed a couple beautiful maps, Inishail Forest and Operation Phoenix. The best parts of those maps which I've noticed a bit lacking in general in the initial POE2 maps are the complex areas surrounding CPs (i.e. lots of cover and hiding spaces) and complex/varied terrain, usually with lots of cover. Giving the opportunity for infantry squads to travel, or even defend a CP, with a decent amount of stealth is huge for the groundpounders, and makes for much more interesting and varied conflicts than the straight Zerg/Grenade rushes to the flag area. Open areas around CPs and between CPs = painful games for 58-60 players, fragfests for 4-6 air players, in my experience. Of course, neither map has any air vehicles at all, concentrating intense infantry action between CPs for the most part. My favorite maps feature balanced infantry play (which doesn't necessarily equate to urban settings) where 30 people play 30 people (or more specifically 5 squads play 5 squads), as opposed to two sets of air whores racking up 100+ kills while the vast majority of players suffer.

One other tweak that was very successful in our Tactical Mod (and I'm not sure if you have any control over as a mapper) was very large flag cap areas around CPs. This took the focus off of C4ing a very small area and resulted in much more divested defenses, and longer battles/contests for flag ownership, around CPs. It gave defense and assault much more of a "secure the zone" feel than a "hold this specific point" feel, which made for much better gameplay.

Thanks again Greasy for actively soliciting feedback here. While I only voiced the issues I have with the mod (since you asked... ) overall I really like the mod and am eagerly anticipating seeing the new maps played on our epic, 64 player scale.

[Santa]

Zhytomyr's problems:

• Too small
• Too much armor
• Ukraine has advantage in that they are always fighting downhill
• German UCB is too close to the actual fight, and often you really have to hold back to stop from spawn killing the germans disoriented

However, i do like the general feel of the map and the cover at the flags is well done. Those things i mentioned above take away from the good aspects of the map too much.