Red Dawn -- Remove the Heli

[E-Male]

Again, last night on the Red Dawn, holding the Heliport meant inevitable victory. That Heli has got to go. It is quite unfair to be playing against overwhelming air power with no reasonable available means for taking the heliport once it covered by a good pilot. Holding the garbage dump flag next to the heliport only makes the situation worse, as was seen last night. The heli comes in wipes out the enemy squad (mine), flies back two hundred feet, repairs and repeats. That is a ticket disaster for our side. THere is NO POSSIBLE WAY of holding the flag next to the heliport without it turning into a ticket-wasting nightmare (when the heli pilot is good and intent on simply attacking that one flag, for the most part), which makes the design logic of this game very unfair.

The map is an insult to in-game fairness. I mean no complaint against the pilot, he was simply doing his job and doing it very well.

A fair fight means a fair chance of either side winning the map, and as much as I love the design of Red Dawn, the heli and the fortress-like character of the heliport cp makes it pretty well impossible to win if the heliport is not in your hands.

Of course, I may be mistaken -- lets hear what others think ...

[Lucky Shot]

Originally Posted by E-Male

Again, last night on the Red Dawn, holding the Heliport meant inevitable victory. That Heli has got to go. It is quite unfair to be playing against overwhelming air power with no reasonable available means for taking the heliport once it covered by a good pilot. Holding the garbage dump flag next to the heliport only makes the situation worse, as was seen last night. The heli comes in wipes out the enemy squad (mine), flies back two hundred feet, repairs and repeats. That is a ticket disaster for our side. THere is NO POSSIBLE WAY of holding the flag next to the heliport without it turning into a ticket-wasting nightmare (when the heli pilot is good and intent on simply attacking that one flag, for the most part), which makes the design logic of this game very unfair.

The map is an insult to in-game fairness. I mean no complaint against the pilot, he was simply doing his job and doing it very well.

A fair fight means a fair chance of either side winning the map, and as much as I love the design of Red Dawn, the heli and the fortress-like character of the heliport cp makes it pretty well impossible to win if the heliport is not in your hands.

Of course, I may be mistaken -- lets hear what others think ...

We were losing map after map as the German side and this map comes up with no bleed whatsoever. The Ukrainians beat us to the flag and after a massive fight, Santa's squad takes it and my squad holds it for the rest of the round. From there the pounding began from a 20 ticket difference to an absolutely crushing victory. While I am not a chopper fan, I will tell you that Mantis kept your chopper down while you held that flag with a tank. Anytime it took off, it left smoking and returned only to die from a second tank shell. So while we kept the chopper under wraps for your side, we used it to great effectiveness when we (Darkviper) had it. There are a couple of Mobile AA's on the map and they will tear apart that chopper very quickly, especially if the opponent uses them correctly.

Having said that, I would likely more enjoy this map without either the AA's or the Chopper.

Lucky Shot

[E-Male]

Ekk. I did not realize that both sides have a chopper on Red Dawn. If so, then ignore my ignorant rant (or file it under 'Lou Dobbs').

[Lucky Shot]

Whichever side owns the Helibase gets a chopper. Only 1 chopper on the map at a time.

Lucky Shot

[Dark Viper]

I certainly wasn't trying to make it a bad experience for the other team. Just that by the time we got the helipad, our team had lost every other flag. I was just trying to clear out the general area (mainly garbage dump) so that the ground squads could get another flag.

Plus, having all the other flags, your team had 2 mobile AAs that I never saw brought up there once. I was wondering why the Ukraine team wasn't using them.

[E-Male]

Indeed, very good points about the AAs not being used by our side. And again, I mean no bad will towards the pilot, DarkViper. Excellent flying and sound logic on your part.

[Santa]

The team that doesn't have the heli simply needs to be smart. Once the heli is out of your control, lose the flag adjacent to the helipad CP--its not worth defending, and you arent bleeding them if you have it. Focus all of your attention on the Shilka spawns (i still need to find out where those are). Once you have some shilkas, then you can move back on the helipad and try to regain it.

Even with that said, this map suffers from 3 things:

• Chopper. It reminds me of Sharqi.
• No bleed. Apparently the defense for there being no bleed is that its an "assault" map, but both sides start with 1 CP anyway
• You have to bunny hop through the city just to get around

Fix those issues, and its a great map.

[Lucky Shot]

I found a couple different ways to hide out in the slums. At one point we had an AA, an APC, a Tank and a chopper floating above us and while they gave us a bunch of heck we were able to hold out for reinforcements. I think I found my spot for hide and seek!

Lucky Shot

[corporate]

We where dug in at the destroyed building, waiting for some action, but the flag was not as contested much. All the fighting ended up at the helipad. With all the hiding places the destroyed building looks like a lot of fun to defend.

Also, how does the bleed work in Red Dawn? I think I remember having most flags but no bleed. Someone said they think you have to control the helipad to get bleed. Anyone know for sure?

[Lucky Shot]

Originally Posted by corporate

We where dug in at the destroyed building, waiting for some action, but the flag was not as contested much. All the fighting ended up at the helipad. With all the hiding places the destroyed building looks like a lot of fun to defend.

Also, how does the bleed work in Red Dawn? I think I remember having most flags but no bleed. Someone said they think you have to control the helipad to get bleed. Anyone know for sure?

It doesn't. So it's only worth having a couple flags that are very defensible or allow you to bleed the other side of tickets, like the Helipad (which is both).

Lucky Shot

[MoreGooder]

I used the mobile AA to take out the chopper numerous times. I had a 75% kill rate anytime the chopper ventured in my range. Pretty painless for me, and kept the pilot running for cover anytime he was near the Dropzone CP.

[BigGaayAl]

While that round e-male talked about was pretty awful for us to play, when even 6 support guns could only make the chopper smoke, I am holding out my judgement on the chopper somewhat. The reason is it is new, and possibly does provide enough AA to counter the chopper. I'm just keeping in mind that Sharqi had no mobile AA.

The problem with this counter is though that usually on this map, the better team will have the better weapons (chopper), with the other team having to rely on good teamwork and skill to even the odds. In the end, this will magnify give the better team's scores. To prove this point: I too tried, as apparently Mantis did, to keep the chopper down with I tank while others were attacking, only I missed.

[E-Male]

Again, lasy night, the side with the heliport won (My squad was holding on to the heliport flag this time, and while we did loose it once, we did get it back with the help of two other attacking allied squads).

I certainly was premature with my rant (above), but as BigGayAl points out, the non-heliport side will need extraordinary CO coordination and SL cooperation to move and keep those AA units in place. On the other hand, as I just said, two or three good squads can take the heliport back, but keep in mind that DarkViper was not flying the Heli -- much depends upon who is in the cockpit...

Lets keep a running score here on how many times the Heliport holding side wins the map.