POE and the CO role being more involved

[Drizzid]

Ok I ad a thought about a way that might draw more people into the CO role for future releases of POE. So here goes......

What about allowing the CO to use the UAV but not in the same way it was used in Vanilla BF2. What if the devs at POE were able to change the UAV and turn it into exactly what it is but for offensive purposes. First arm the UAV with 1-2 missiles and allow the CO to fly it and take out tactical targets. For example the Germans squad 1 are getting absolutely pounded by artillery defending the Town CP. SL of squad 1 asks the CO if he can eliminate the artillery, so CO launches his UAV to find where the arty is located, finds said target and launches his missile/missiles and eliminates the arty. Now the UAV has to go back to the UCB and HAS land, that is when the timer begins until the UAV is ready to fly again say a 30-45 second timer until it is ready to fly again. Now for tactical reasons the farther the mission the UAV flys the longer it will take to get it back into the air so it won't be as devastating as the arty was in Vanilla.

I don't see any reason why it can't be done in the game and offensive UAVs are being used on the battlefield more and more these days, such as the Predator UAV. I think this would be a good way to give the CO some excitement and something to do other than give orders and watch.

Anyone have any thoughts or comments

[[tR]Greasy_mullet]

We dropped the UAV, scan, and nuke (aka Arty) because we felt those features ruined the game. UAV and scan in particular because it ruins tactics.

A flying UAV might be different but how would that be fair to give a player a bot they can use against you and kill others with it but not die themselves?

[Drizzid]

Originally Posted by [tR]Greasy_mullet

We dropped the UAV, scan, and nuke (aka Arty) because we felt those features ruined the game. UAV and scan in particular because it ruins tactics.

A flying UAV might be different but how would that be fair to give a player a bot they can use against you and kill others with it but not die themselves?

The UAV can still be destroyed by ground fire, helos, jets and tanks ect ect. Granted if the UAV is destroyed it won't count as a ticket loss but I think the use of it can bring some value to having a commander. I also think that limiting the amount of missiles to 1 or 2 will make a CO only use it when absolutely necessary. Also I think making the UAV actually have to land and then have the timer start for redeployment will keep a CO from abusing the capabilities of UAV

[Gman]

The situation with the CO is a tough one. I dislike a CO who calls out every damn grunt on the field. Makes me want to shut off in game sounds all together. At the same time, I understand that it is boring to be a CO. You cannot go out and fight. You cannot be in vehicles. You cannot do much of anything but spot, drop supplies, and try to direct a battle.

I suck as a SL so CO is not something I would do very well. Most folks dont handle the over all battle very well any way. To send a squad to the other side of the map is just silly. They do it all the time though. Of course I get SL's who do the same thing.

Do I have an answer..... no. Maybe on the TG server, they could set up an Honors board with CO wins/losses. It could be a source of bragging rights. As far as the POE Devs... that is tough. Adding assets changes the play of the mod and is not always a good thing. Giving useless assets does not entice anyone to be CO. Possibly a single 3 gun arty shot every 5 minuets of actual game time? Some thing that could maybe help flip a flag but not be a map changing tool.

With so few tools available to choose from, it is tough to entice someone to be CO. Hell, it's tough to get some people to be SL in some of the squads.

[corporate]

One possible way to give the CO more power is a vehicle or kit drop. A kit drop might be good for a pinned down squad who needs an anti-material rifle, for example.

[Foxoq]

I like the controlled UAV idea, but I think taking off the missiles and just using it as recon would allow for more tactical flexibility without having the bot killer that pubbies would fight over. The UAV doesnt relay info to the map like in BF2 rather the commander's view is 45 degrees downwards and he may spot targets at will. To compensate for the weird view the UAV is incredibly easy to fly and land. However, neglect the fuel bar on the UAV and it will crash before you can land, removing that ability from your team for the rest of that game.

[WhiskeySix]

I like this thread Drizz - giving the CO a little more to work with...

- I like the idea of giving the CO the ability to destroy something anywhere on the map 1-3 times per round. Whether it's via a destroyable UAV that can lock onto a vehicle, or vanilla-style artillery (maybe with a shorter delay between firing and impact since there's only 1-3 strikes per round).

- I'd like to see smoke artillery made available on most if not all maps. This gives the commander something to do and contributes to teamwork/tactics because it implicitly would be used when a coordinated attack/defense is underway.

- Fox's idea about the UAV view for commander is interesting too - but to differentiate it from standard full-zoom view, perhaps it's a FLIR type view.

- Limited vehicle drops and kit drops are also great ideas.

[Lucky Shot]

I can see a CO getting so wrapped up into flying the UAV that he begins to neglect supporting the squads. I like the idea of the CO being able to have some kind of offensive capability, like a fire and forget cruise missle?

Lucky Shot

[[tR]Greasy_mullet]

When we started work on BF2 making PoE2, our team had about a couple dozen ideas for commander mode. However we soon learned that 99.9% of what we wanted to do was hard coded. Some of the ideas listed were on our list as well.

The UAV drone idea however is totally doable as far as I know. However ideas presented on these forums will make it to the dev team and commander is something we are always talking about.

[tHa_KhAn]

The problem I see with a UAV drone, controllable by the commander, is the usefulness. Remember, TG players are not the only ones who play. on a TG server with TG players the commander controlled drone would work. I just don't see it working on non-TG type servers with non TG type players. Either it would have to be so ineffective there would be no fighting over it or whoring it which could lead to it being useless. Or the flipside is make it a great asset and then you have people TKing or griefing for it and whoring it's weapons. I think it all boils down to the ole, Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[WhiskeySix]

I think the keys for a remote-controlled attack-drone would be

A) Long "reload" times - The CO would only be able to fly 2-3 sorties per round so they'd have to prioritize their strikes. (This would also prevent someone from hopping in the CO chair for 20 seconds just to launch the UAV)

B) A small "fuel supply" or "fire and forget" - To prevent the CO from flying the thing around for 5 minutes, looking for a target... They'd only launch the air-strike when a high-priority target was identified/requested by a SL.

C) Extreme accuracy & lethality. If the CO is only going to get a couple of shots per map, each one has to have a very high probability of working.

D) Fragile / non-silent. This would let you tune the gameplay balance. Adjusting it's armor and audibility would let you increase or decrease how effective it is. (though be careful w/ the sound - some PC/Headphone combos let you hear very quiet sounds on the other side of the map for some reason)



One other thought was that there be three munition types... or perhaps three separate drones that could each be used once per map. In real-life, there seems to be three main submunitions for cluster-bombs: anti-armor ("shaped charge"), anti-infantry (fragmentation), and "Area Denial" (i.e. land mines).

[Gman]

3 submunitions... a drone that would drop claymores, mines, grenades. In limited quantities this could be interesting and bad at the same time. The possible TK's from people who do not pay attention to the skull and cross bones would be high.

Lucky ... the closest we get to a commander on a lot of maps is someone jumping in to supply themselves or squad them jumping out. How would this differ from one who does not give his full support to all the squads? I agree this is not desirable in either case, but not all commanders are up for the TG responsibilities involved in leading.

[Drizzid]

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

I can see a CO getting so wrapped up into flying the UAV that he begins to neglect supporting the squads. I like the idea of the CO being able to have some kind of offensive capability, like a fire and forget cruise missle?

Lucky Shot

A good point for sure Lucky and I think there can be two things that can be done to keep COs from paying to much attention to flying the UAV. First is in the set up of the UAV. Maybe the Devs might be able to let the CO select the UAV then place an attack icon on a tank for instance. Once the icon is placed on the tank it is locked on and stays locked onto the tank if it moves. The UAV takes off and goes to destroy the tank. This way the CO doesn't have to actually fly it. The other thought is limit the amount of flying time for the UAV drone. Allow only say 2-3 mins max fly time that should give plenty of time for the drone to reach anywhere on the map, drop its payload and return to the UCB.

This is a good discussion let's keep it going and try and give the PoE devs as much help as we can!

[Magrioteli]

Isn't it weird? When I as a commander - in BF2 - have had my UAV blown to pieces I sure miss it. But do I miss it here, in PoE2 - no not at all!
We had a “Big War” (public BF2 gaming in an organized manner) last Sunday and I volunteered late because players were missing. The picked me as CO (the winning team it turned out to be) I hadn’t played vanilla at all since December 28 (good picking!?)
Here I agree to what Lucky Shot said; I was too busy staring at that UAV sometimes that I felt that I forgot the game which went on outside its radar screen. I guess it is a habit “nowadays”, being a PoE2 addict.

Gman wrote:

I dislike a CO who calls out every damn grunt on the field. Makes me want to shut off in game sounds all together. At the same time,- - - .

Ah! The established and nerve wrecking balance between spamming and helping. First I want to say that I don’t think it is boring being a CO. (But I can understand people dislike it). It all depends who you are playing with. My very first gaming night at TG’s, I did jump in as a CO at Rolling Thunder for UKR (the Hind was probably at maintenance). I was so astonished that the squads asked (in VOIP) for orders and of course (the TG squad gave me good advices) and I did use my V-key. I’ve seldom experienced that as a CO in BF2, where almost everything comes via the commands in the text chat, unless you aren’t playing with dudes you know.
Don’t get me wrong Gman, I am not criticizing you, and I agree what you said about spotting every lost soul at the map. But still that also depends who you have in your team. Some players seem to have forgotten their mini radar, and they need to be escorted to the enemy. They sure need these call outs.

Dropping vehicles? I that it sometimes when I am lost in the white wilderness at Guardian. Walking snow blinded for 15 minutes just to meet an enemy heli.
But I don’t have to think twice to recall the abuse/exploits of it in vanilla and I say: No thanks to 4 tons vehicles dropping like a spring rain from the sky.

I will finish this essay with a huge wish. The artillery piece in PoE2 is awesome - if one can handle it and have a/some good scout(s) out for targeting. Wouldn’t it be even greater to have coordinates given to the gunner, where to fire upon?
I now notice – some exceptions of course – that artillery piece is not that often in use as it ought to be. I am not keen on it, because I think it is too complicated to operate. Wouldn’t coordinates to fire at be great?

As WhiskeySix said:

I'd like to see smoke artillery made available on most if not all maps.

Amen to that!


Stay safe,
Magrioteli

[E-Male]

I may be in the minority here, but any added intell/UAV capabilities for the CO would be step backwards. There needs to be more unknowns, not less, in PoE. The more it is played, the more the terrain, spawn points and so on get known by expert-level players, making the imbalances that much more grievious.

Please, developers, take great care here before you give any more powers to the CO. CO smoke, yes, a good thing, makes for more interesting visuals, and as yet an underused feature not sufficiently available. Keep the CO weapons and intell/ UAV, to an absolute minimum, and encourage SL to CO communication patterns.

The CO on PoE is now at its best, far better than the godlike nonesense of vanilla BF2. The CO is the one area of design that has the most potential to destroy the game as a strategic forum.

There are far more uncertainties and chaos in the battlefield then we assume, lets keep those uncertainties in the game and not pretend that war is a clean and high tech as '24' or 'shock and awe' (more like invade and screwup...)

Also keep in mind that on a full map, it is hard for the average player to stay alive for any great length of time. Adding more features that will ramp the death rate will return the game to a foolish frag fest.