Map Rotation Change?

[Knights_Roundtable]

I seem to find myself playing about the same time 4-6 times per week, about 10:00 or 10:30 p.m. to 12 or 1 a.m. For some reason it seems like on many days the same maps are played at close to the same times, such as the following: Berzene, Fallen, Orel, Capt. Mtns, Highway to Hell, and Dnipro Sunrise. Now and then Road to Jalalabad, Karkand, Oilfields, and Mashtuur are played. I do like playing these older BF2 maps with the teamwork on TG as it makes the maps much more enjoyable. I still enjoy Berzene alot since it is still rather new, and Capt. Mtns. as well, but am really tiring of the others. It seems like Fallen and Orel gets played 3 times during some map sequences. Alot of people like those 2 from what I can tell but sometimes I just quit and start doing something else. I know that everyone has their own preferences, and you can't please everyone, but is there anyone else who would enjoy playing some of the other maps in the later hours? I guess I'm a big variety kind of guy. Some of the other maps that would be cool to play at these later hours on a more consistant basis could be Dnister River, Zhytomyr, Battle of Sambir (only if the air power is tamed significantly), Lutsk, First Snow & Guardian (I know they're not popular but would be a little more intense in a 32 map size), Operation Acorn (a new map that would be cool to play more often), Red Dawn, and even more of the vanilla BF2 maps like Wake Island. I do appreciate this server and the players I see online as the teamwork and Squad leading is awesome a good part of the time! I can't tell you how much more enjoyable this makes POE on TG over vanilla BF2. Anyway, I hope people don't think that I'm just trying to gripe... See you in the game...

[jmaker]

Well a few of those you mentioned are out of the question, like Zhytomyr, First Snow, Guardian. But I do wish we could see a few more of the vanilla maps in the rotation. (hint hint.....Sharqi, minus chopper)

[[tR]Greasy_mullet]

I would like to see Dnister more. Seems though every time I join the map is either on Orel or about to change to Orel. lol.

[icky]

Unfortunately, since the full rotation does not include ALL of the PoE maps, you are likely going to see the same maps frequently when you play 6 nights a week.

The reason you see Orel and Fallen more frequently than other maps is because admins will push the server forward to those in an effort to prevent a quick population death later in the evening. When it gets late and Rivne comes on, for example, people will leave in large numbers. This problem gets compounded by the fact that Rivne does not stay enjoyable when you get down to 45 or less players, so even more people leave as the map progresses.

We do our best to maintain the fun factor, and if we can squeeze more of the unplayed maps into the rotation, we will.

[FBmantis]

Orel and Fallen get high play because they are really the only pure infantry maps we have to work with at the moment. Spies Like Us is available but due to the balance issues we have pulled back on the amount of play it gets. Lots of people love infantry maps...they overwhelming let us know that again a couple months back when we had a rotation that had quite a few vehicle heavy maps in succession....so we adjusted and try to space things out so you get an infantry map every second or third map load. Once the next major poe release comes out I think you can be sure that Orel and Fallen will come up less and the new infantry maps will see the priority.

As for insight into some other maps:

- Carpathian gets heavy play because its a favorite among a lot of people and a very good fit for the style of play we have here. All kits are in play...armor is important but not dominating...squad play is huge...squads can attack and defend flags from almost every direction...you can move toward flags mostly undetected as there is no barren open ground you have to dread crossing. Not to mention the map is completely balanced so you get a great game and experience almost every time. The one thing this map does highlight though is the need to play in a squad using teamwork...you will not get anything done on this map as a lonewolf. As new maps get released this map will probably be slimmed down to one instance in the rotation.

- Berezne gets heavy play ATM because its a newer map and was probably the favorite to come out of the map pack. You can pretty much apply almost everything I said about Carpathian to this map as well. Very balanced and tactical map.

- Battle of Sambir and Guardian...these maps are no longer in the rotation for several reasons but a major one is the frogfoot. Two frogfoots in the air completely negates the use of armor by the GER team. Just one flyby by this jet is guaranteed to take out its target and lots of times its multiple. Meanwhile the Tornado has to make multiple passes to take out just a single target due to flares...even then it doesn't always work because that bomber seems to be bugged half the time and locks don't work. So in the end what you get is one team being able to utilize all their armor and the other team having no use of their armor. It not only creates imbalance but also makes things very unenjoyable if your . When AA is properly utilized it can definitely help but the frogfoot will still severly deter the use of armor....especially when there is two of them in the air. I hope to see at least Sambir return if Icky can work some coding magic.

- Operation Acorn: We will get this one back in the rotation when bleed is fixed in the official version. Right now its pretty much pointless to play because the only thing that matters is holding the Quarry.

- First Snow and Zhytomyr...these maps are iffy and were mainly cut due to the community not enjoying them. Since no one has complained about their removal the decision has stuck. Zhytomyr was like Stormfront except add armor everywhere to all the snipers...tactically not much interesting happens here. Meanwhile First Snow had so much open ground that infantry just have minimal ability to take cover from armor and choppers here. Playing infantry on this map is extremely frustrating.

- Other vanilla maps: You have to think carefully about these maps. The lack of AA and inability to use 50 cals against choppers really changes some of the maps. Some maps have too many flags and others the community just hated during the vanilla days anyway so no chance of them showing up. A few of these will hopefully show up once we get some mod tools running that allow us to change some things.(Sharqi without the choppers being the main example)

In the end we always welcome opinions on our rotation. Keep them coming...

[ProjectNA]

I too would like to see more variety. I find it very fun to play vanilla BF2 with the POE style. Somehow it means more on a vanilla map because I know how much fun it *wasn't* to play the non-POE style. I am a huge fan of the POE maps as well, just wondering if there is some way to still get on at the same times but see some different maps. There are also certain maps where everyone just bails. It might be because I am Mountain time. Again, not griping, but now that there are so many maps available for the rotation...I have missed the discussions on how they are chosen.

[ProjectNA]

Sorry for the double post, but Mantis must have been typing away when I first responded and we passed in the ether. The explanation provided helps alot in understanding the thought process for map selection. Is there any way to have the same rotation, but stagger when they are played time wise?

[Lucky Shot]

The vanilla BF2 maps have changed dramatically. Songua is littered with APC's. Mashtur has one side with a chopper with missles while the other side lacks that firepower. Sharqi has the choppers but also the fixed AA fires into spawn points. Oman for BF2 was only good once we took out the bombers and it would be the same situation for POE.

First Snow is brutal in the 16 and 32 player mode and the 64 player mode is the only one I would ever be interested in playing. Guardian and Sambir are both tough for the reasons Mantis mentioned. Zhytomyr was always a Ukraine win.

Some of the current maps are maps where people will leave, so we try and stick those in the middle of the night, such as Highway to Hell, Lutsk, Rivne, Dnister where people will play through them. Fallen, Orel, Woodland, Carpathian, and Berezne are maps that help to grow the population or in some cases keep the population from dwindling at the end of the night.

Lucky Shot

[Braidedheadman]

My 2p, if I may:

As a pilot (a preferred role), I would like to have seen more air maps were it not for the balance issues the the Frogfoot imposes on most maps. Even when vBF2 came out, I was under the impression that bombers (which none of the jets in BF2 truly are in the first place) had stopped employing or at least reduced the frequency of carpet bombing as a tactic after the Vietnam conflict in favor of precision guided munitions. So I thought that the Tornado was a step in the right direction with POE2, but I haven't quite been able to wrap my head around why the Frogfoot kept its carpet bombs from vBF2's standard "bomber" weapons load-out.

As far as Sharqi goes, why not remove/relocate the offending AAA nests? Or burry them in sand bags or a crater so that their arc of fire is limited to the sky only? That would allow a place for both AAA and choppers on that map, which for me anyways was half the attraction back in vanilla. At the very least, I've long thought that both teams should have had an MAA unit spawn at their main base as a viable counter (made all the more potent in PoE2) to the choppers.

Also, Dalian was one of my favorite maps (until the J10 vs F35 completely borked things up) in vBF2. I have not seen it in the latest map rotation and was wondering what thoughts the rest of TG had on this map? Why was it removed as a candidate for inclusion into the rotation?

[Lucky Shot]

Originally Posted by Braidedheadman

Also, Dalian was one of my favorite maps (until the J10 vs F35 completely borked things up) in vBF2. I have not seen it in the latest map rotation and was wondering what thoughts the rest of TG had on this map? Why was it removed as a candidate for inclusion into the rotation?

With the BF2 maps, we don't want to have every Vanilla map in the rotation otherwise we would still just play BF2. We wanted to take the maps that were enjoyed the most by the community and sprinkle them in with a heavy POE content as the POE maps were built for the mod. So Mashtuur, Daqing, Karkand, Jalalabad and Songua were chosen as a good mix of infantry, combined arms and air. We can't have them all and currently have 22 maps in our playlist and 17 unique maps. That's an awful lot and they all do get played.

Lucky Shot

[WhiskeySix]

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

That's an awful lot and they all do get played.

I think point of the OP was that they don't all get played during primetime, and I tend to agree w/ that... It sure seems like it's the same 3-4 maps between 10:30pm-12:30am every night. I do understand it's a fine line - balancing variety with "population-friendly" maps.

[Braidedheadman]

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

With the BF2 maps, we don't want to have every Vanilla map in the rotation otherwise we would still just play BF2. We wanted to take the maps that were enjoyed the most by the community and sprinkle them in with a heavy POE content as the POE maps were built for the mod. So Mashtuur, Daqing, Karkand, Jalalabad and Songua were chosen as a good mix of infantry, combined arms and air. We can't have them all and currently have 22 maps in our playlist and 17 unique maps. That's an awful lot and they all do get played.

Lucky Shot

Fair enough. Here's another thought I'd like to bounce off you. What about the Front Lines mode? I'm fairly certain I participated in a couple rounds of that on TG's servers when PoE2 was still fresh but not for quite some time now. While I thought it was a fun change-up, I can see where some might not like the mode as it does force everyone into a meat grinder situation (good practice for those busy flags on assault mode maps).

For me, however, it was fun because it forced me to think more about how the terrain should come into play when advancing on enemy fortified positions. Each step had to count or we were just throwing tickets away. Run & Gun certainly did not work well and squad movements had to be highly coordinated to get even close to the flags, making the commander position more relevant so as long as he was giving competent orders and given the intel he could provide.

[FBmantis]

Originally Posted by Braidedheadman

Also, Dalian was one of my favorite maps (until the J10 vs F35 completely borked things up) in vBF2. I have not seen it in the latest map rotation and was wondering what thoughts the rest of TG had on this map? Why was it removed as a candidate for inclusion into the rotation?

Be there tonight(Friday)... we are gonna try to give this one a playtest when the population is high. Another vanilla map may get a playtest as well although I won't say which one. heh

[thebleakaffinity]

Dalian also doesn't have bombers, if I remember correctly? So it shouldn't be so bad.

[Lucky Shot]

Dalian in fact does not have the bombers. It does have the missle firing transport choppers which will make it interesting. Hopefully the Foxbat's will be able to keep up with 2 fighters, and potentially as many as 5 enemy choppers. Who needs a CO? We need an Air Traffic Controller!

Frontlines and Nuke play well until you get above 16 players per side and really optimally at 12. The AAS version 2 in PR is actually superior than straight up frontlines as it truly gives you greater variability while still concentrating the gameplay. Maybe Nuke mode and Frontlines is something that should be considered for potential PW nights.

Lucky Shot