How to Not Let the Server Stink...

[ThePenguineer]

Okay. Here I go again:

Looks like it's that time of the moon cycle when another thread complaining about the quality of the server pops up. This has been discussed too many times to really add anything new to the topic. If you have not already tried preventative measures against smacktardary, then you may want to look at any one of the many past discussions on that topic by browsing any one of the BF2 or BF2142 forums.

What I will do is re-summarize what you need to do if preventative measures fail. Don't rep me for this post - this is stuff that should really be common sense. I started a new thread so that this won't get drowned in page after page of replies and rebuttals.

1. Read The Reporting Infractions Thread - Bommando obviously spent a lot of time writing it, so it's a shame that between the BF2 and BF2142 servers, it's been read less than 1,500 times. And, I've read it at least 3 times. If you think your complaints aren't being heard or are being ignored, this is a good place to find out why.
   
2. Use TeamSpeak - This is by far the most efficient and effective way to get immediate admin help. You don't have to rely on them watching the global chat. They don't have to be in game. You don't have to scramble to take screenshots. The information regarding our TeamSpeak server isn't hard to find or hidden, so if you don't have technical issues running the game and TS at the same time, you have no excuse for not being able to reach an admin when they're sitting there waiting for complaints.
   
   Furthermore, in PR particularly, TS can be used to let the team-mates of the problem player know about your complaint. If you say "hey, there's a squad in our uncappable. What's up with that?" someone who can actually talk to that squad or know who they are, i.e - their teammates, can warn the problem player OR get you their names so action can be taken. Remember that TS is the BEST cross team communication tool.
   
3. Got a Problem? Find an Admin! - Our admins are volunteers and can't be expected to have their eyes glued on the global chat 24/7 or to be in game whenever they can. However, there is often at least 1 admin SOMEWHERE in TS or browsing in game chat at any given time. If an incident is bad enough to make you want to post an angry thread on the forums, why not take the time to look through the TS listing to search for admins there. Not only would you get your problem solved then in the correct protocol, you won't have angry forum administrators yelling at you not to make player issues public.
   
4. Remember Retro-Active Reporting -PanzerHans spent many, many hours putting together a system that allows admins to reliably check player issue claims against server records after-the-fact. Use it. I promise it won't take more time to send that PM to an admin than it does to write an angry post.

The Point: Don't complain about X player not getting kicked/banned when you have not gone through all the avenues to have that action taken. The admins are not mind readers - they cannot sense your seething anger through their monitors and take action against problematic players if you don't tell them.

I have found that the people who post complaints about server quality tend to be those who do not regularly show up on TS. I do not believe this to be a coincidence. I've been around for nearly a year and a half, and I can tell you that the times that we had the best server quality in terms of who was on it was when all the TG regulars were on TS. Smacktards didn't get very far when half the server could report their actions IMMEDIATELY.

Instead of complaining about how our admins need to be available (which they already are) or how the rules need to be enforced (which they are when people report issues), take the time to make sure YOU have the correct paths set-up to report issues and make the lives of the admins easier. Most importantly, USE THEM. Admins sit in the TS game channel outside of their in-house squad channels for a reason. Now, make them feel that doing that is worth it.

Edit - I forgot to add two things last night.

• Follow Up - You may have reported one incident, yes. But, the policy has always been give them a chance or benefit of the doubt for most of the infractions. An admin can only watch so many people at once, and it's harder if they're in game. If an admin doesn't take immediate "action," don't think they are ignoring you or don't care. Often, they are waiting to see if a problem player has changed their behavior. If no one follows up, to be fair to said player, they won't take action. If no one's reporting back, then the problem went away and that person shouldn't be kicked, see?

The last thing is that we seem to be disagreeing on what appropriate admin "action" is. I know that recently this has opened up a bit of a can of worms when it comes to how heavy handed the admin team should be. Admittedly, the first time I checked the forums was when my brother managed to get me temp banned for UCB vehicle stealing many moons ago. Fast kicks and bans may not be a loss for us if we get rid of bad players, but these action will directly affect the popularity of the mods, which are not our work. I know that it can be argued that kicking opens up room for better players, but we it's also VERY important that our admins not come across as abusive.

[Wimpinator]

Penguineer for president.

[mingmong]

Admins are available, sure. I've been on teamspeak/found one through BF2CC 3 or 4 times when there were incidents. On one of these occasions, an admin warning the person in question solved the issues. In all of the others, either warning had no effect and the admin was unwilling to kick them, or the admin simply did nothing.

We have plenty of admins, but very few admins willing to act on anything bar a teamkilling spree or something of similar magnitude. I've given up reporting people who aren't following the chain of command despite following the SOP for dealing with those situations to the letter - because twice I've grabbed admins on teamspeak, informed them I've got a SL refusing to follow orders/doing something idiotic, the above SL has been warned at least twice through voip, and twice nothing has happened.

[Bc2ID]

Penguinner,

Thank you....;-)

[FlumBom]

Originally Posted by Wimpinator

Penguineer for president.

He has my vote also

Thanks Penguinner

[Jeepo_SAS]

Totally agree, most admins are excellent, but losing Root a very bad idea, as he is in the UK, he can cover at times when most of the US admins cant, and he done so brilliantly IMHO, gave ample warnings, followed the rules to the letter, which is what some of the players need...

[Bc2ID]

Originally Posted by FlumBom

He has my vote also

She might be upset at that last comment....

[jmaker]

+rep.

[Beatnik]

Originally Posted by mingmong

Admins are available, sure. I've been on teamspeak/found one through BF2CC 3 or 4 times when there were incidents. On one of these occasions, an admin warning the person in question solved the issues. In all of the others, either warning had no effect and the admin was unwilling to kick them, or the admin simply did nothing.

We have plenty of admins, but very few admins willing to act on anything bar a teamkilling spree or something of similar magnitude. I've given up reporting people who aren't following the chain of command despite following the SOP for dealing with those situations to the letter - because twice I've grabbed admins on teamspeak, informed them I've got a SL refusing to follow orders/doing something idiotic, the above SL has been warned at least twice through voip, and twice nothing has happened.

"ery few admins willing to act on anything bar a teamkilling spree or something of similar magnitude..." is just not accurate. People are warned/kicked/banned all the time. Following orders is a bit of a different animal with kicks/bans, so usually we give them ample warning first. And it's our warnings that count (when considering a W/K/B), not CO warnings.

Make no mistake, though. If you "give up on reporting people" you're a part of the problem, not solution.

That being said, great post Pengie.

[SloppyJoe]

Originally Posted by Beatnik

Make no mistake, though. If you "give up on reporting people" you're a part of the problem, not solution.

I'm gonna be blunt. Hopefully you don't think of me as a self-centered jerk for it, because really, I'm not.

(See also: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...tml#post690291 )

When I get home and think of playing a game, my aspiration, as a player, is to fire up the game, and play. My goal and expectation is not to fire up PR to get on the server to see who I can bust for being a monkey. To play, especially in a game with such big teams, long times, and in a large environment, with assets, kits, and various personnel, especially approached from a TG-style of play perspective, requires a lot of focus in order for things to go smoothely.

The plain and simple; I don't like to stop focusing on playing to do non-play things. It's like getting phone calls mid-game, it's a dysfunctional distraction to the game and the playing experience. Putting a wrench in the gears of players playing the game should be minimized as a priority.

The more we make it standard practice for players to stop their play, the more the game breaks up, the more the game breaks up, the less enjoyable it is for all players involved, and the more the game breaks up, the more we look like we're bumbling, and the more we look like we're bumbling, the more justification for monkeys to say "see, you can't do it right, your style of play gets even less respect from me." The less respect we get from the monkeys, the more they monkey. The more they monkey, the more we have to stop playing. Wash rinse repeat.

Yes, I can appreciate that players can "help" admins. But consider that on one hand they are helping, and on the other hand they are hurting. What kind of system is that? Seems a bit like a treadmill effect.

Admins should be admining. Players should be playing.

Yes it's nice that players can be deputies, but if they do it should minimize the impact on play.

Admins should be easily reachable on TS, and should not have to have players alt-tabbing to search for an admin in whatever channel they are in. Players should not have to have 20 channel changing keys to avoid alt-tabbing so they can go from channel to channel asking for an admin while still in game either. Admins should also be available, are more needed?

As a player, I will take a screenshot when I can, but it should not be at the expense of losing a helo you are flying, or if you are leading a squad and are in the heat of battle. It does take a while, for me at least, to do a screenshot, and while it's doing it, I'm frozen.

Most players hop on to play and since the maps are so long anyway, don't have a lot of time to do the battlerecorder thing. And even if they did, it can be very time consuming and tedious. I wouldn't expect a lot of that and I don't think it should be expected either.

Most of the ways for players to act as deputies are not good, efficient, or effective. We do have a mechanism for that that is effective and efficient, it's admins, admining. Admins have the tools and the means to address situations, immediately and effectively, when they are activelyadmining.

An analogy for this whole situation kind of makes me think of the server as being like a big field in a farm, and the admins are asking the players to help till the field with shovels and sticks, while the admins have the tractors. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not going to give up reporting people, but I am not going to play sheriff and make it a habit of putting that as a higher priority than focussing on playing the game. I've done it, it doesn't work. Am I part of the problem? I don't think so.

The PR Server is popular, both for TG members and guests. Don't you think perhaps allocating more admins to cover it would be the logical and appriopriate thing to do rather than ask players to bork up their games to play admin? Isn't it kind of obvious that there is a demand pull and the supply is not meeting it?

And yes, the server is new, but I just realized something... Because it's new, it's easy to say, "it'll get ironed out, give it time" But how it gets ironed out will ultimately leave you with the server you're gonna get. If players are the ones that are doing the ironing out, they are going to get burnt out, not enjoy a fine game (one of the best mods I've seen), and drop out. You're gonna be left with a server that kind of defeats the purpose of what, at least I imagine, would be a TG server. While the admin staff encourages if not relies on players to do the work, without giving them effective tools or quick response and backing, not only are they stopping their functional game playing, but they are going to resent it. In the meantime while the whole goal of admins admining and players helping admins admin is to provide a fun and TG-like environment for players to play, it seems self defeating if the path chosen does not foster a good time for the players and they start dropping, and then to top it off tell them if they don't report that they are part of the problem.

Also, if players are good enough to play deputy, why not make them admins and give them the tools they need, instead of ineffecient, slow, and tedious shovels. Why not allocate more resources to an obvious need? Why not allocate the right resources to meet the need.

Something to think about.

[SloppyJoe]

Oh, and this is NOT an us vs. them thing. I'm not trying to alienate or cause rifts between admins and players.

This is a matter of functionality and perspective.

Schools have administrative staff and teachers. The administrative staff functions on running the school so that the teachers can focus on teaching. Occasionally Teachers have to partake in the administrative functions but their focus and primary duty is on teaching.

[[TG] IronClaw]

Hi

Peguneer is always saying the same stuff over and over.

Admin the servers ourselves.

So tell me again what a supporting membership entitles us too besides being told whats what by someone who does`nt even support TG.

Sorry Pengie but I`m not hearing you.

IronClaw/Mr Sparkle

I want more admins avaiable on TS regardless of time/server for proactive responses when it is needed.

[Beatnik]

Originally Posted by SloppyJoe

Yes it's nice that players can be deputies, but if they do it should minimize the impact on play.

Most of the ways for players to act as deputies are not good, efficient, or effective. We do have a mechanism for that that is effective and efficient, it's admins, admining. Admins have the tools and the means to address situations, immediately and effectively, when they are activelyadmining.

[...]

An analogy for this whole situation kind of makes me think of the server as being like a big field in a farm, and the admins are asking the players to help till the field with shovels and sticks, while the admins have the tractors. It just doesn't make sense.

While the admin staff encourages if not relies on players to do the work, without giving them effective tools or quick response and backing, not only are they stopping their functional game playing, but they are going to resent it.

Also, if players are good enough to play deputy, why not make them admins and give them the tools they need, instead of ineffecient, slow, and tedious shovels. Why not allocate more resources to an obvious need? Why not allocate the right resources to meet the need.

It's always fun to see new perspectives on these things.

You refer to "admins having the tools and means to address situations". Admins have very few methods to know about different rules violations, other than players reporting them. Without kill messages, admins are severely limited in their awareness of what's going on with the server. Unless we see it ourselves (which is very, very rare), we have no idea it happened. Unless it's reported to us, a rules violation has almost no chance of being noticed.

Admins are not looking to deputize players, theyre just looking for intel with which to make appropriate decisions. We don't ask to be told how to handle situations, but we need to know about the situation before we can address it. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with "paperwork" or whatever else you alluded to. It's simply a matter of awareness, hence this thread.

So yeah, if you don't report the issues, and you simply complain about bad behavior in the forums, yes you are more a part of the problem than the solution.

One other point: if you "just want to play and have a good time", fine. But you forfeit all rights to whine about it in the forums if that's your stance. We admins receive no compensation for what we do; we "just want to play" too, but we do what we can given the information presented to us to make this the best server out there. But don't misinterpret our pleas for intel/rules infractions as laziness.

Adminning in PR is a night and day difference than Vanilla, just by virtue of kill messages alone. It amazes me to read posts like this accusing us of sitting on our hands or being lazy, while in the same post you say that you don't want your game disturbed in the least to let us know about violations, while simultaneously complaining about quality of play on the server.

[asch]

There seems to be some false assumptions and incorrect facts.

Originally Posted by SloppyJoe

When I get home and think of playing a game, my aspiration, as a player, is to fire up the game, and play. My goal and expectation is not to fire up PR to get on the server to see who I can bust for being a monkey. To play, especially in a game with such big teams, long times, and in a large environment, with assets, kits, and various personnel, especially approached from a TG-style of play perspective, requires a lot of focus in order for things to go smoothly.

The plain and simple; I don't like to stop focusing on playing to do non-play things. It's like getting phone calls mid-game, it's a dysfunctional distraction to the game and the playing experience. Putting a wrench in the gears of players playing the game should be minimized as a priority.

We all have this desire. You've pointed out that that this game has large teams, environment, vehicles, assets, etc. Not only does it require a lot of focus to play, it requires a lot of attention to educate and administer. This is not sub-twenty player server within the confines of a small map. That would make it so much easier on players an admins.

The more we make it standard practice for players to stop their play, the more the game breaks up, the more the game breaks up, the less enjoyable it is for all players involved, and the more the game breaks up, the more we look like we're bumbling, and the more we look like we're bumbling, the more justification for monkeys to say "see, you can't do it right, your style of play gets even less respect from me." The less respect we get from the monkeys, the more they monkey. The more they monkey, the more we have to stop playing. Wash rinse repeat.

Yes, I can appreciate that players can "help" admins. But consider that on one hand they are helping, and on the other hand they are hurting. What kind of system is that? Seems a bit like a treadmill effect.

If everyone ignores problems then problems will exist. If everyone takes some time to help identify problems, then we will begin to remove them. Yes, game play may suffer, but we're thinking longterm here. It's not a treadmill effect, it's slowly picking away at the problems so that overall the game play will be better down the road.

Admins should be admining. Players should be playing.

Everyone should be educating other players on the aspects of TG. This does not mean that every time you play you have to go squad up with someone you don't know or try to teach them how to be a better player. But if everyone would play one-round per week with someone they haven't before and then educate them on some of the finer aspects of team play, then we're doing great.

Players should be providing information the admins. If this does not occur, then the player has absolutely no right to complain.

Admins are players too. Admins are administering. However, the player reports the infraction and the admins decide what action to take.

Admins should be easily reachable on TS, and should not have to have players alt-tabbing to search for an admin in whatever channel they are in. Players should not have to have 20 channel changing keys to avoid alt-tabbing so they can go from channel to channel asking for an admin while still in game either. Admins should also be available, are more needed?

We understand that more admins are needed and have been working to correct this.

If you need assistance in setting up three keybinds to locate an admin, I'd be more than happy to help you out. There is no need to alt-tab out of TS.

As a player, I will take a screenshot when I can, but it should not be at the expense of losing a helo you are flying, or if you are leading a squad and are in the heat of battle. It does take a while, for me at least, to do a screenshot, and while it's doing it, I'm frozen.

We understand that there are times when a player cannot take a screenshot or jot down some information on a piece of paper. But if that player doesn't do anything, what are you expecting to happen?

Most players hop on to play and since the maps are so long anyway, don't have a lot of time to do the battlerecorder thing. And even if they did, it can be very time consuming and tedious. I wouldn't expect a lot of that and I don't think it should be expected either.

We don't expect players to deal with BFrecorder. What we do expect are a few pieces of information, according to the how to report a problematic player announcement thread.

1) Problematic players name (in-game name)
2) What the problem is. What is that player doing that you find inappropriate?
3) Which server? (i.e. Svr #1, Svr #2, Svr Private)
4) Approx date / time of offense.

I'd also add in there approximate round timer.

This would allow the admins to try and pull the BFrecorder file and take a look. However, this report has to come fairly soon after the incident because there is a limit on the number of BFrecorder files that are stored.

If the player can't be expected to report this basic information then the player cannot expect administrative action.

Most of the ways for players to act as deputies are not good, efficient, or effective. We do have a mechanism for that that is effective and efficient, it's admins, admining. Admins have the tools and the means to address situations, immediately and effectively, when they are activelyadmining.

This comment fails miserably on the facts.

Other than seeing language or disrespect through the chat logs, there has to be visual confirmation of an infraction. Admins cannot watch all 62 players on the server. If you're expecting this then you will be sorely disappointed. Infractions have to be reported by the players if any action is to be taken. This is not deputizing anyone. This is asking for information so the admins can make the decision on proper action.

I'm not going to give up reporting people, but I am not going to play sheriff and make it a habit of putting that as a higher priority than focussing on playing the game. I've done it, it doesn't work. Am I part of the problem? I don't think so.

Depending on the infraction and the current situation in the game, we understand that sometimes it is better to continue playing. But again, if the players don't report it they cannot expect anything to be done.

If players don't report problems and complain, then YES, they are part of the problem. As I mentioned above, these reports by players are what is needed to take administrative action.

Now you say that it doesn't work. My impression is that the admin did not take the action you thought was appropriate. I'll say this again. The action taken is up to the admin team and not the players. If you have issue with the administrative action taken, then there is a proper way to address that. First speak with the admin you reported to. If you feel the issue is not resolved then you speak with the Game Officer. If that does not suit your needs the you speak with myself or Apophis.

My guess is that you have not done this.

I'll repeat this again because others need to be aware of this. The player reports the infraction with as much detail as possible. The admin decides on what action to take.

The PR Server is popular, both for TG members and guests. Don't you think perhaps allocating more admins to cover it would be the logical and appriopriate thing to do rather than ask players to bork up their games to play admin? Isn't it kind of obvious that there is a demand pull and the supply is not meeting it?

The admin team understands that we are short on numbers and are attempting to resolve that. However, as I stated above, without the players reporting infractions the admin team cannot take action. It takes visual confirmation by a player or admin to see an infraction and unless we have an admin in every squad, this is not going to be completely covered by the admins.

If you feel it is not the players duty to report infractions because it "borks" up their games, then you are playing the wrong game.

And yes, the server is new, but I just realized something... Because it's new, it's easy to say, "it'll get ironed out, give it time" But how it gets ironed out will ultimately leave you with the server you're gonna get. If players are the ones that are doing the ironing out, they are going to get burnt out, not enjoy a fine game (one of the best mods I've seen), and drop out. You're gonna be left with a server that kind of defeats the purpose of what, at least I imagine, would be a TG server. While the admin staff encourages if not relies on players to do the work, without giving them effective tools or quick response and backing, not only are they stopping their functional game playing, but they are going to resent it. In the meantime while the whole goal of admins admining and players helping admins admin is to provide a fun and TG-like environment for players to play, it seems self defeating if the path chosen does not foster a good time for the players and they start dropping, and then to top it off tell them if they don't report that they are part of the problem.

Here is where I'm going to pull the experience card.

What we're asking now is the same thing we were asking when we first launched a BF2 vanilla server. The difference between now and then is that back then players were taking the time to work it out amongst each other. Granted, everyone was learning the game, but everyone posted threads about strategy and tactics. Players played with new players because everyone was new. There was education.

If the TG veterans took the attitude that, "I expect admins to admin and players to play... and I only play a few hours so I'm not going to help educate"... then we wouldn't even be here with a BFx server. We'd have cut our losses and moved on.

So based on experience... it was this education and communication amongst all these new and different players that built BF2 vanilla into a great game here at TG. Where are those posts on new strategies and tactics? Where are those posts on great leaders and those posts by the leaders teaching the new folks? Where are those TG Learn squads?

Also, if players are good enough to play deputy, why not make them admins and give them the tools they need, instead of ineffecient, slow, and tedious shovels. Why not allocate more resources to an obvious need? Why not allocate the right resources to meet the need.

Several reasons. The first is that we're not trying to deputize players. We're asking them to report infractions they see. Secondly, because not everyone is up to being an admin, for whatever reason.

The admin team attempts to "be on the same page" when it comes to how we administer the server. This requires a solid team to work and communicate with each other.

Something to think about.

Yes... now that we've cleared up some false assumptions and incorrect facts, I do hope everyone can think about what they are doing to make the server game-play, BF2 PR community, and TG a better place.