Police Departments Using 9mm ARs?

[Strag]

There was a "disturbance" yesterday on the other side of the building in which I work. The local police department (not SWAT) was called in to handle the trouble, which turned out to be a man who'd made "threatening remarks." He was taken into custody, but I don't know what become of him after that.

What interested me the most about the whole situation was the weapons two of the officers were carrying. They had AR-style carbines chambered in 9mm, which came as a surprise. I didn't realize any departments in the area were using 9mm ARs. Ya learn something new every day.

For peace officers in other departments, do any of you carry a 9mm AR-style carbine in the trunk? I'm not conducting any sort of study or anything; I'm just curious!

[loyalguard]

We deploy with the Colt 9mm SMG where appropriate. I personally think it is a great weapon for its familiarity, ease of use, cleaning, and maintenance.

We also train and deploy where necessary with the M4 so the similarity in operation between the two is really nice and makes training easier since the weapons systems are so similar (not withstandng the obvious differences).

Even though I think the MP5 is an overall better 9mm sub gun choice (especially for tactical team/SWAT applications) the Colt SMG is about half the price and much easier to clean/maintain.

[Magnum50]

most allow us to carry true AR15 .223 rifles, but before that started becoming popular after the famous Hollywood bank robbery, where the 2 bad guys had all that body armor and automatic weapons... departments started buying 9mm carbines... these were between hand guns and assault rifles, still using 9 mm rounds but now with the longer range...

of course they quickly became unnecessary after true AR15's were allowed to be carried.

My department only carried handguns and shotguns, then we got like for carbines 9mm) that the patrol supervisor carried and issued as needed on scene, well that wasn't very logical, so now we don't bother with the carbines and most (we had to buy them ourselves) carry the AR 15 now in a shotgun type rack.

that department may still be behind the times, and thats why they still carry the carbines, not allowed yet to carry full powerful rifle.... just my guess.

[mentholated]

Originally Posted by loyalguard

We deploy with the Colt 9mm SMG[/url] where appropriate. I personally think it is a great weapon for its familiarity, ease of use, cleaning, and maintenance.

We also train and deploy where necessary with the M4 so the similarity in operation between the two is really nice and makes training easier since the weapons systems are so similar (not withstandng the obvious differences).

Even though I think the MP5 is an overall better 9mm sub gun choice (especially for tactical team/SWAT applications) the Colt SMG is about half the price and much easier to clean/maintain.

Any reason for preference of 9mm over .223 nato rounds? I'd figure a carbine chambered for nato rounds would be better for a police department or swat considering the penetration power.

[Strag]

Originally Posted by Magnum50

that department may still be behind the times, and thats why they still carry the carbines, not allowed yet to carry full powerful rifle.... just my guess.

It's a suburb with a LOT of money to throw around, so it could very well be that they're just not allowed to carry full-power rifles.

[loyalguard]

Originally Posted by mentholated

Any reason for preference of 9mm over .223 nato rounds? I'd figure a carbine chambered for nato rounds would be better for a police department or swat considering the penetration power.

We do also deploy with the M4, which takes standard .223 rounds. It depends on the assignment/threat. It's nice to have options

[Strag]

So for you guys who use the 9mm ARs, do you have problems with bolt catches breaking? I've got a semi-auto 9mm carbine that I've assembled from RRA and Hahn components (based on the Colt pattern), and I've noticed that there is quite a gap between the front of the buffer and the bolt catch when the buffer is in the rearmost position. As heavy as the 9mm buffer is, it has quite a bit of inertia when it slams into the bolt catch.

I've found a place that makes REALLY heavy buffers that are also longer than the normal 9mm buffer, and from the testaments of other users it seems to work well. It reduces the rate of fire in full auto (for those of you who have that version), and because it's longer it vastly reduces broken bolt catches. I'm thinking about ordering one to try it out. If anyone is interested in the information, I can pass it along.

[Acreo Aeneas]

Isn't the Colt 9mm AR also referred to as the Colt M733 (used by some special forces around world)?

[P8riot]

Has there been any implementation of the Cx4 Storm?

[Gunnyhighway]

In my time we were deploying (French Air Force) among other weapons with the MAT49, which is a 9 mm. The police forces in France were using it and some still do today. The advantages is that the ammo is not that lethal (except in the head of course) so less co-latheral damage, and more alive perps apprehended. The less powerfull ammo offers the possibility of smaller weapons, more agile in close quarter, ease to operate, cheaper, ease of manufacturing, storage, maintenance and this ammo is also cheap and readily available. The 9 mm offer the flexibility between handgun, submachines and rifles. The saving in cost and ease to plan for re-supply is tremendous.
My guess is that it makes it easy for a lot of people.

[CingularDuality]

Originally Posted by mentholated

Any reason for preference of 9mm over .223 nato rounds? I'd figure a carbine chambered for nato rounds would be better for a police department or swat considering the penetration power.

You might be surprised at the lack of penetration that the .223/5.56 round offers. It's a very small bullet that goes very fast. It loses a LOT of energy when it first hits something.

[Gunnyhighway]

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

You might be surprised at the lack of penetration that the .223/5.56 round offers. It's a very small bullet that goes very fast. It loses a LOT of energy when it first hits something.

One of the interest of the 223 was that it was not very well balanced around its center of gravity. Hence penetrating the human flesh it would tilt very easily and have an errating trajectory through the different density of tisssues presented by the different organs it would cross, bones included breaking them or bouncing from, or grasing them. It would create at once different point of hemorrages, and wound be difficult to heal thus costing valuable ressources to the ennemy to care for their wounded. One bullet hole in the front line triage process when overwhelmed gets you first in line for surgery. The 223 was created based on the experience of medical triage of WW2 and Korea.
To do such bouncing act as a patchenko ball, the bullet has to slow down drastically as soon as it hit something. Therefore, the idea of the light density, unbalanced projectile, traveling at very hight speed seemed a good idea at the time.

[CingularDuality]

Originally Posted by Gunnyhighway

One of the interest of the 223 was that it was not very well balanced around its center of gravity. Hence penetrating the human flesh it would tilt very easily and have an errating trajectory through the different density of tisssues presented by the different organs it would cross, bones included breaking them or bouncing from, or grasing them. It would create at once different point of hemorrages, and wound be difficult to heal thus costing valuable ressources to the ennemy to care for their wounded. One bullet hole in the front line triage process when overwhelmed gets you first in line for surgery. The 223 was created based on the experience of medical triage of WW2 and Korea.
To do such bouncing act as a patchenko ball, the bullet has to slow down drastically as soon as it hit something. Therefore, the idea of the light density, unbalanced projectile, traveling at very hight speed seemed a good idea at the time.

Well, kinda...

If anyone wants to know more about the .223/5.56 round, I highly suggest reading the Ammo Oracle: http://www.ammo-oracle.com/

[TheBigC]

The State Department has been using that weapon (9mm Rifle) for a while. Never made a whole lot of sence to me, but to each thier own..