In consideration of TvT games .....

[Sleepdoc]

I love coop. Period.

I am sometimes accused of being "EVO" centric, but I have played a bunch of coops lately, and those are fun. I get that tag becuase i put so much energy into trying to organize and make EVO better.....

But anyway ... i think i'm getting ready for someorganized TvT.

I used to think that if one side played the game slow and go ... organized and cautious ... while the other side played like gun and run ..... the game would pretty muck suck ... but you know what ... maybe not.

I'm starting ot think that if I really believe in slow and go, then it should win. that it should result in a game of attrition, where the slow and go guys win.

This is not true in small-map games because of the time and space that slow and go types need to get spread out and organized. It should work in larger maps like sarhani, assuming the start points are seperated enough at the beginning.

I think I'm getting more and more open to the idea of some larger TvT scrims now......

your thoguhts? on TvT or this idea of fast movers vs. slow movers ...

And yes. some people can move fast and be organized. but that takes even more talent ....

[tHa_KhAn]

It's all about organization. ArmA in general is better organized. TvT can be the pinnacle of ArmA, but requires the most organization. TvT without organization is just BF2 with better physics.

A pre-planned organized session is great for TvT. I actually need some volunteers to help me test an updated version of Taxi's mission.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

It's all about organization. ArmA in general is better organized. TvT can be the pinnacle of ArmA, but requires the most organization. TvT without organization is just BF2 with better physics.

I agree, without strong leadership and teamwork, TvT is just crap. Sniping is fine, but only sniping with no tactical purpose is useless. However with strong leadership and teamwork I think TvT can be more immersive and challenging than anything you ever played in ArmA.

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

A pre-planned organized session is great for TvT. I actually need some volunteers to help me test an updated version of Taxi's mission.

- At least 16 players are needed
- Good leaders are needed
- People who enjoy a challenging, teamwork oriented, cautious, stealthy and tactical style of game.
- Keep in mind TvT is no kill fest, one mistake and you're dead

So if you think it sounds like your kinda game, feel free to volunteer.

[Riyker]

In my opinion slow-go will work for moving to an objective, staying intact -- such as "Defend The Smoke" games. But when assaulting another team, the !@#&^ hits the fan REAL quick.

When that happens it's full on CQB style. Now that didn't mean every man for himself -- no, no -- we still had to hold on to structure, but comms fell to silence and all ran on AOR auto-pilot.

I'm betting slow-go works best for objectives, and a blend of both for elimination battles.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Riyker

In my opinion slow-go will work for moving to an objective, staying intact -- such as "Defend The Smoke" games. But when assaulting another team, the !@#&^ hits the fan REAL quick.

When that happens it's full on CQB style. Now that didn't mean every man for himself -- no, no -- we still had to hold on to structure, but comms fell to silence and all ran on AOR auto-pilot.

I'm betting slow-go works best for objectives, and a blend of both for elimination battles.

Once you're in full contact it, the stealthy part is out of the window, but you still need to remain tactical and 360 aware. It also depends in what situation you meet the enemy, if it's long range, it is easier to keep organized comms and for the SL to tactically manoeuvre, in close quarters it is indeed more hectic and difficult to stay coordinated.

But that's all part of the challenge, which team stays most effective under difficult circumstances?

[boudreux]

I'm in. Put me in coach.

[Sleepdoc]

Originally Posted by Taxi

Once you're in full contact it, the stealthy part is out of the window, but you still need to remain tactical and 360 aware.

Exactly. I think Taxi put it just right. He made the distinction between "Stealth" and "Tactical"

It is my hope that a squad, (made of a couple of fire teams), who has practiced together for a while, would not "lose their cool" and "drop their sectors" just becuase the moment transitioned fom stealth to in your face CQB.

the team that keeps its tactical awareness (360 as Taxi put it) in tact should be the team that emerges victorious over all......

It takes training for a cool head to stay cool under fire. if the training and discipline are there, the training and discipline takes over......

The hard part is getting a group together, frequently enough, that plays together all the time. A chance to work with the same guys over and over so you can talk less and accomplish more in any situation. To know what the other guy will do when the heat is on. I suppose this is why "Groups" (squads? clans?) like the 12th and 1st form up. To play with eachother, to the exclsuion of others, as much as possible. To get to that "tight" place with a known group of guys....

Im not saying they are "excluders". On the contrary. but I would think some private training and closed games would be required, somewhat regularly, to get your style tight with your guys...

[tHa_KhAn]

Originally Posted by Sleepdoc

Exactly. I think Taxi put it just right. He made the distinction between "Stealth" and "Tactical"

It is my hope that a squad, made of a couple of fire teams, who has practices together for a while, would not "lost their cool" and "drop their sectors" just becuase the moment transitioned fom stealth to in your face CQB.

the team that keeps its tactical awareness (360 as TAxi put it) in tact should be the team that emerges victorious over all......

It takes training for a cool head to stay cool under fire. if the training is there, the training takes over......

Very good points. We have some missions that are actually setup like training missions on the COOP server. One in particular features MOUT movement through a dense city. This a perfect map to train for transition from long range combat to CQB.

[Evil Koala]

In.. I've been waiting for TG to do some TvT since Nov 06

[Atomic Dog]

I'm totally in!

[VegaBond]

And for the evolution addicts I've been playing on 9th server now with OpFor on the mission, it adds fun and TvT type added along with co-op...

But yeah, we need to do TvT or something else...

[Dec]

I have never played TvT or PvP, as I said to Taxi, only coop with NO respawn.
I would find it interesting to play if there was no respawn. There are a lot of comments here about tactics, awareness, training, communication etc. However most of the missions on the server including Evo, which I stopped playing, are respawn.
I wonder how many players would still be so gung-ho without respawn where very movement on the mission means victory or game over.
I don't know if Taxi's mission is made for respawn and I don't know if no respawn means a long dragged out game with everyone afraid of making a mistake, but if it is the usual, some player shot me and 10 seconds I respawn go and find him and kill him, then no thanks.
If I had to play respawn then the only way would be a squad respawn, start from scratch when your whole squad is dead.

[Sleepdoc]

Originally Posted by Dec

......but if it is the usual, some player shot me and 10 seconds I respawn go and find him and kill him, then no thanks.
.......

I have been playing my fair share of one death games too and they certainly take on their own character... don't they?

I think there may be something in the middle as well, for the sake of fun. just something to consider. like 3 deaths or 2 deaths... just thinking out loud...

Also, what you describe above is not permitted in a coop game, no matter how many respawns you get. in order to do what you described, you would have to be in total "Lone wolf" mode, like is easily done in BF2 type games.

In TG, even if you get a respawn or 2, (or infinite) you are expected to return to your squad and get in line. You are not permitted to run around seeking revenge on some specific shooer from your previous death.

But for teh record, i really enjoy the NO RESPAWN type games too.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Dec

I have never played TvT or PvP, as I said to Taxi, only coop with NO respawn.
I would find it interesting to play if there was no respawn. There are a lot of comments here about tactics, awareness, training, communication etc. However most of the missions on the server including Evo, which I stopped playing, are respawn.
I wonder how many players would still be so gung-ho without respawn where very movement on the mission means victory or game over.

I would very much enjoy no respawn missions, but the mission must be suitable for it.

Originally Posted by Dec

I don't know if Taxi's mission is made for respawn

It is made for respawn, a no respawn version could be easily made, but not sure if that's a good idea for reasons listed below.

Originally Posted by Dec

I don't know if no respawn means a long dragged out game with everyone afraid of making a mistake

It depends on the type/scale of the mission. My mission is pretty large with both the spawn points as well as both objective being quite far apart. In such a mission no respawn would mean the battle would "dry up", which would mean there are no team members to do teamwork with and the changes of engaging the enemy will become much smaller.

However with a mission where there is only one objective or the objectives are all in a relatively small area than no respawns are more fun to me. However I consider a decent spectator script to be a must for no respawn missions.

Originally Posted by Dec

if it is the usual, some player shot me and 10 seconds I respawn go and find him and kill him, then no thanks.

Not possible in my mission, the spawn points are too far apart. People respawned need to regroup at spawn, coordinate with the frontline and travel to the front.

Originally Posted by Dec

If I had to play respawn then the only way would be a squad respawn, start from scratch when your whole squad is dead.

I tried to do this with a longer respawn time on the vehicles. However I'm still looking for a script to make people spawn in groups (preferably their squad).

[Dec]

Ok, maybe some middle ground would be good to keep the fun element, this isn't a realistic group after all.

@Taxi. If it is a large mission I guess you could spawn the transport only after all the team is in the same location ie at the respawn point. As you said you need a working spectator script or players will get bored fast.