One Tank squad > Armor squad

[BigGaayAl]

Posting o illustrate again why a squad with 1 tank in it and 3 people is much more effective then any squad with multiple tanks imo.

I played a great round with Gahlas(gunner/engi) Ghostdog(gunner/engi) and later lt.Gafsi(engi) on the mec side. We set off with three friendly tanks leading us out of our base in Al Kuffrah. I remember saying lets not follow all those tanks, they will die in a minute. What followed was an almost mechanical procedure of spot, pop over ridge, shoot, pull back, repair.

Initially we were pushed back, as indeed -surprise- all our tanks died in about a minute or two. We were engaged by two or three tanks at once. Yet we kept getting in hits and pulling back. Our patience prevailed and we killed both the tanks ourselves I believe. Then we moved up along the east slowly, while getting infantry support to get the eastern central flag, hulling up every time we stopped.

We pushed up our defense towards the enemy, but were able to fall back quickly on the CO's order (zybon stating "you are the worst squad in the world" made me floor it, since he is always a good co). We rushed back into the flag, just in time to help the squad that was defending it. A tough fight ensued, with engis running up to us with mines and smoke, but slowly the infantry cleared them with us. At this point our top gunner was having a tough time.

After that we were able to push to the next flag with the whole team. We sealed off the east effectively, and capped the flag, while getting a steady stream of kills on tanks infantry and that pesky H-AT. At this point, even though our team lost this flag in the end, the game was over.

The utterly remarkable thing though was that we ... DID NOT LOSE THE TANK ONCE! And I may add this is the second time I've been able to do this. I really wish more people would make a squad dedicated to the us of one tank.

The procedure to be successful is really simple.
1) You hull up in a good spot where you have a nice view.
2) You or the team spots armor (or infantry but usually armor is what a tanker needs to worry about.

***golden tip***
3) SL marks the spotted target with "destroy" marker before engaging. Once the target is spotted, the SL needs to get his caps lock map fast, before the red symbol disappears, if possible zoom in and place marker as precise as possible.

I can't stress this too much. It will cut down on those vital fractions of a second which decide which tank gets the shot in first.
***end of golden part***

4)Repair. In 90% of the cases, you pull back immediately to cover. If the enemy is close, pull back two hill-crests so you have the needed time to repair if they come towards you, and so you can make it harder to flank.

Main gunners should not EVER get out of the tank (nor should the driver) unless ordered specifically by the SL. The crewman wrench is NEAR WORTHLESS as it repairs much slower then the engi who is in the top machine-gun position. Don't lose that crewman.

Here are the scoreboards and stats.

[Wimpinator]

I played around the other night where I was an Engineer with the resuplpy jeep and kept a couple of tanks up and running. That was a really fun round.

[Gahlas]

That round was a lot of fun. I think it is awesome we kept our tank up the entire game. We must have killed 8-10 enemy tanks. The low number of people in the squad helped to as everyone was focused on the one tank and not divided between two or three.

I think it is awesome that Al had 632 teamwork points and no deaths. That is the way PR should be played. Slow and careful. Good stuff.

[knewman]

I admire you, nice job keeping the tank the whole game! Thats good stuff.

[Sabre_Tooth_Tigger]

A reason for this might be that a tank works best with support. A squad of tanks can only support each other in so many ways and usually they arent great at that even, clustering together like infantary squads do, etc.

Ejod works great now its expanded btw

[Bc2ID]

I find that two tanks, one support vehicle, two engineers, and a hat are the ideal squad. This seems to work wonders in the sand battles.

[BigGaayAl]

Originally Posted by Bc2ID

I find that two tanks, one support vehicle, two engineers, and a hat are the ideal squad. This seems to work wonders in the sand battles.

I've seen squads do rounds like this with great succes. I can not fathom how these SL's can make comms work for this sort of squad. When I have 3 people in a tank, I am constantly busy, communicating targets, when to repair, where I take cover etc. Having 6 people do this at once seems very hard to me.

In your set-up for example, you have 3 infantry (engi,engi,HAT). This leaves only three people for the tanks. A bare minimum. In my set-up, I have three people in one tank, driver = SL. I believe it would be very hard for you to take me out, unless you can hit me with your mobile (=with a gunner and driver) tank and your HAT at the same time. If you don't, I'll be able to pull back behind my cover and repair. I am truly curious how you use such a squad effectively.

Do you keep the driver-less tank behind to cover against flanking manoeuvres? Do you send out the engineers with the HAT in the jeep to flank?

I don't think a tank without a driver has a realistic chance against a tank with a driver, unless the latter is careless. Do you disagree on this B?

[Sabre_Tooth_Tigger]

A 1 person tank shouldnt do half as well but 2 people in a tank could do worse if they are just no good or not used to it.

So yes Bc2ID's setup could be better sometimes but I think 1 people tanks need to think more about where they park and generally give themselves plenty of cover.

I love finding the perfect dip in the ground that fits a tank but leaves the turret peeping over the top to do a full 360 degrees of view/aim on anyone it likes


A general tip for tanks to survive on maps like Kashan is to use the peak of the mountain for cover. As the plane approaches you cross over the top and he must circle to line you up again, then you cross back.
I dont see even 2 men crew firing at planes, I guess they move too fast?

[Morganan]

I would say the perfect setup would be...

2 tanks, both with driver/gunner.
1 support vehicle with Eng driving.
1 APC/AAA vehicle depending on the map with 1 person operating both controls.(driver/gunner)

Use the APC/AAA vehicle to cover the tanks rear. The resupply vehicle floats, but use a simple triangle formation.

T.................T



.........A


This isn't BF2, you don't want to try and cap flag's with armor. You want to isolate CP's with your firepower so infantry can take the flag with little to no opposition.

Nice score's

[Bc2ID]

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

I've seen squads do rounds like this with great succes. I can not fathom how these SL's can make comms work for this sort of squad. When I have 3 people in a tank, I am constantly busy, communicating targets, when to repair, where I take cover etc. Having 6 people do this at once seems very hard to me.

In your set-up for example, you have 3 infantry (engi,engi,HAT). This leaves only three people for the tanks. A bare minimum. In my set-up, I have three people in one tank, driver = SL. I believe it would be very hard for you to take me out, unless you can hit me with your mobile (=with a gunner and driver) tank and your HAT at the same time. If you don't, I'll be able to pull back behind my cover and repair. I am truly curious how you use such a squad effectively.

Do you keep the driver-less tank behind to cover against flanking manoeuvres? Do you send out the engineers with the HAT in the jeep to flank?

I don't think a tank without a driver has a realistic chance against a tank with a driver, unless the latter is careless. Do you disagree on this B?

Just a question..what do tanks usually do when fired upon? Lead with the Hat and watch the results.. Being fired upon three times as opposed to once is deadly. I agree a tank without a dedicated driver can be disasterous, however for defensive and map control, you cannot beat it. Of course my preference is to have two person tanks, and if you have two squads working together then this would be your advantage. However this takes up a lot of manpower, which is why I am willing to sacrifice the drivers.

[Sabre_Tooth_Tigger]

3 shots on a tank coordinated would be devastating That'd be like carrying round an artillery gun in your backpack

[BigGaayAl]

Originally Posted by Bc2ID

Just a question..what do tanks usually do when fired upon? Lead with the Hat and watch the results.. Being fired upon three times as opposed to once is deadly. I agree a tank without a dedicated driver can be disasterous, however for defensive and map control, you cannot beat it. Of course my preference is to have two person tanks, and if you have two squads working together then this would be your advantage. However this takes up a lot of manpower, which is why I am willing to sacrifice the drivers.

I think it is very hard to calculate what approach is more effective. You never know how good the other team is for one, or what set-up they use. The thing about the three shots is true, but how does this stack up against the probability of losing tanks quicker?

Another point is that while some of you like to use 1 man tanks, I usually use three man tanks! Quite a difference in manpower used indeed. I still believe it is worth the manpower in the long run.

If the opponent has air superiority, this could well change the whole equation. In that case I think I would prefer a setup like the one Morganan suggested. I like that triangle.

Good to be talking about this kind of stuff again. I used to love the lively discussions on this sort of thing in the tactics forum.

[Terminal Boy]

Sitting behind the top MG wearing an Combat Engineers kit is the one position in a tank where I'm not an utter liability and I'm liking this thread a lot.

Got a few Qs..

1. How do you run the tank for spotting/engaging targets since a Driver/SL has the worst view in the tank?

2. How do you manage comms with supporting infantry and repair trucks?

3. Do you find the smoke dispensers on the tank of any value at all if you're using ridgelines or hull-down positions to fall back on when hit/under attack?

[BigGaayAl]

Originally Posted by Terminal Boy

Sitting behind the top MG wearing an Combat Engineers kit is the one position in a tank where I'm not an utter liability and I'm liking this thread a lot.

Got a few Qs..

1. How do you run the tank for spotting/engaging targets since a Driver/SL has the worst view in the tank?

2. How do you manage comms with supporting infantry and repair trucks?

3. Do you find the smoke dispensers on the tank of any value at all if you're using ridgelines or hull-down positions to fall back on when hit/under attack?

I am also really enjoying this discussion, for once it's not about at-sniping or bunny-hopping .

On your questions:

1. The driver has a better view then the gunner. His 360° view with just as much zoom is a little higher then the gunner's. The gunner is also free to engage as I am marking targets. But it does work well with the SL in the gunner seat as well. The only thing is that the driver cannot precisely indicate targets, and the gunner doesn't really need to (if he sees it he can just shoot). So I think SL driver is best in the end.

2. I should have one engi, he may be in the F3 position, or he may be driving a support vehicle behind us. In any case he should ONLY repair when we are pulled back in cover, so nearly no comms are needed. Just "repair now plz", or warning him to get in his vehicle/our tank to move. The engi can also help spotting with his binocs.

3. I have used smoke effectively on some occasions, like when you pull back to cover and think you are going to be exposed a bit still. Using smoke BEFORE you retreat, may hide you just enough. Most of the time the enemy will shoot you through the smoke though, as it isn't that large a cloud, so you can't hide behind it if you have no cover at all. Against air the smoke does nothing but give a nice attack marker I think.




Yesterday I me and gahlas were idle-kicked in our tank when we were doing a great job guarding the north of the central flags in Kashan. Then we were kicked for being idle! We were spotting, communicating constantly, but the game doesn't register that. This is really a problem on PR now, I've had it before.
When we got back to our empty tank, it was destroyed, and I now had a 6 man armor squad because it was left unlocked. The ensuing chaos was disastrous. We were dying and losing armor all over the place. People were grabbing apcs to attack alone, tanks alone, we had the wrong kits etc.

This reinforced my notion that it s unmanageable, at least with a squad that doesn't understand and follow orders for the full 100%.

In the end the squad was down to three again, and we made south of the mec main, as we lost village and everyone was still there, neglecting to set up defense at the next flag. When we arrived, we cleaned out a whole squad, (but not their rp), a commander truck and perhaps a little more. We moved in on the, with the engi in a support vehicle right on our tail. We were fighting the whole time while recapping the flag. Then I ordered to abandon the tank when a frogfoot had attacked us and was circling to line us up again. We survived long enough I think to just recap it with enemies still spawning in. Then tanks rolled up and cleaned us out when our tickets just reached zero. It was amazing how much we could accomplish with three men again, compared to 6.

I am still very interested in any tips from people that like to run large armor squads on how they do it, especially how they deal with the squad being split up all the time, when one piece of armor dies. THat is a problem the 3-man squad cannot encounter because the engi can always spawn on the tank.

[Morganan]

Originally Posted by Terminal Boy

Sitting behind the top MG wearing an Combat Engineers kit is the one position in a tank where I'm not an utter liability and I'm liking this thread a lot.

Got a few Qs..

1. How do you run the tank for spotting/engaging targets since a Driver/SL has the worst view in the tank?

Call out targets based on clock references using the front of your tank as your reference point... "Target tank 10 o'clock!" It's clear, concise, and only the truly stupid wont be able to have that type of identification system explained to and understood by squadmates inside of 30 seconds.

2. How do you manage comms with supporting infantry and repair trucks?

Keep the repair/supply vehicle in the squad, otherwise use the commander to relay messages.

3. Do you find the smoke dispensers on the tank of any value at all if you're using ridgelines or hull-down positions to fall back on when hit/under attack?

Smoke is effective for putting off planes that already know where you are and to make a hasty retreat when the situation warrant's.