29 Nov SLX Test

**Dredge** · 11-29-2009 11:22 PM

Here you go guys. Post what we found with SLX in here. Maybe the ArmA gods will heed our call.

-AI isn't as good as it was in Zeus

**Gill** · 11-29-2009 11:39 PM

Quick interject: SLX is currently disabled again. Don't connect to the server with it active. Check the TS ArmA Public channel for updated password.

**CFoxtrot** · 11-29-2009 11:52 PM

How did the testing go after the second mission of BHD. Gill mentions that Slx is disabled, so I assume not so good.

**Gill** · 11-29-2009 11:56 PM

So far as I know, there were no major problems. The add-on testing has been disabled to make for some SLX-free time while we discuss the current iteration of SLX and whether or not anything needs to be further done.

**Seiler** · 11-30-2009 12:11 AM

I believe the AI is severly inferior to that of Zeus. It seems that through the span of today's testing, we have weeded it down to only the SLX AI. Which isn't even that good.

Zeus AI is aggresive and human-like. They make devious attempts to flank you. It's not like regular AI where your squad can get into a firefight with an entire enemy platoon and still smoke them. If you get into a firefight with Zeus AI that you can't handle, your squad will be killed to the last man. If any survivors fall back, they will persue you and gun you down. It's simply a whole different ball game that forces players to be alert and cover their ass in coop. With the other AI you can be careless because you know the AI is not going to pull a double flanking manuever.

On a Namalsk mission with Zeus a squad or two of terrorists got engadged with one of our 10 man squads up on a mountain. Enemy had us pretty well supressed while a few buggers ran around back, surrounding the whole squad. 2 guys went down then the medic got hit. We didn't have much of a rear guard and if you stuck your head up you'd get zapped. The rest of us got smoked in no less than a minute. It's like playing TvT without playing TvT. I'm sure some of you guys who were up on the mountain with me can attest to that.

If we're just doing SLX just for the AI then I say forget about it. I didn't notice a whole lot of difference from the regular vanilla AI. Scratch the whole thing then just utilize the Zeus AI in every mission.

**Gill** · 11-30-2009 12:20 AM

Thanks for the summary, Seiler. I've heard that a few times. Zeus AI trumps SLX AI. Anyone else concur?

**CFoxtrot** · 11-30-2009 12:26 AM

Actually, I'm gonna have to disagree with Dredge and Seiler EDIT: And now Gill

. I'd rather have SLX than Zeus. From what I could tell from the gameplay, and I apologize if this is totally wrong, Zeus AI was an overpowering and unrealisitc force.

On that Namalsk mission you mentioned Seiler, I was really annoyed with the AI. I was with the engineers, and we were going to hit a compound with a bridge near by. I was impressed that the AI started to fire on us when someone miss fired. That was fine and dandy. However, during the engagement, some of us flanked from lower ground. Immediatly after cresting the hill, which we though had good concealment of trees and grass, we were immediatly destroyed by small arms. I think that Zeus replaces stupid AI with AI that know everything and everyone's location.

Another problem I have is with the AI's accuracy. On Dredge's Hold the Line mission, I was playing as the politician. Although I could have been behind more cover, I felt that my position was realistically safe as the enemy was about 500m away. I was wrong as I got hit from a rifleman. Zeus compensates for the AI by giving them accuracy I could only dream of.

SLX on the other hand, has alot of AI features that I like such as the ability of communication between AI. Although they arn't overpowering, they are realisitic. As much as I like a challenge, I want tactics to remain as life-like as possible, and IMO I don't think Zeus can offer that as well as SLX

**Inkompetent** · 11-30-2009 02:01 AM

I think I STILL have to explain (don't people read threads at all?) the difference between Zeus and SLX.

Zeus AI affects the AI's skill levels. At how far it sees and hears you, how long it takes for it to identify what it sees, and how good of a shot it is. That's it. Zeus AI doesn't do anything more than that.

SLX's AI contains many more components though, SLX_AI, SLX_AISKill (same as Zeus but with other values), SLX_AI_TurnMove, SLX_FindCover, SLX_GL3 (GroupLink 3 for SLX), and with all these listed I bet I've missed out on some part of it.

SLX's AI is vastly superior to the Zeus one, regardless of if we use Zeus skill levels, SLX skill levels, or no skill level mods at all. It does so much more with the AI anyway. The skill level modding is just another step in the process of making the AI realistic. It's not the one and only master-solution to only mod AI skill levels.

I for one LOVE the SLX AI (although I'd prefer Zeus skill levels over the SLX ones), simply because it is better at using cover, and it shoots! A lot! I'm in love with all that suppressive fire!

And CFoxtrot, Zeus doesn't really make the AI more precise. It just makes them shoot at a longer distance. Therefore it is important to have the server config adapted for Zeus with lowered AI Precision, or it WILL snipe from range. I'm not sure how the configs have been looking lately, and if it has differed between Zeus only, and with SLX.

**blackmain** · 11-30-2009 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by Inkompetent

I think I STILL have to explain (don't people read threads at all?) the difference between Zeus and SLX.

Zeus AI affects the AI's skill levels. At how far it sees and hears you, how long it takes for it to identify what it sees, and how good of a shot it is. That's it. Zeus AI doesn't do anything more than that.

If we are going to have AI that is able to see / hear you at 500+ meters then we will definitely need to adjust how long it takes to identify something. I hate with a passion AI that can react insanely fast to something that most people would take a few seconds to react to.

**Inkompetent** · 11-30-2009 02:34 AM

That's what Zeus does, and it also messes up the AI in CQB a bit unfortunately. It delays the AI's reaction time/ability to identify a target. It works well with a delay at range. But when fighting the AI within 30 meters is a bit too slow and dumb.

I'm sure that AI can be changed to be improved at all ranges, but this far no one has coded something that manages that, and it WILL need scripts or modifying the AI's FSMs. Quite a huge task.

So at the moment we can choose between a few different systems that make the AI good at different things, and we simply have to take our pick of what we think suits our style of playing and our kind of missions

**Dredge** · 11-30-2009 12:48 PM

I know on several occasions last night while we where running BHD some of our guys where actually able to get close enough to the AI to tie their boot laces together. I dont know if SLX is able to handle it on a one on one basis i heard it was meant for big group engagements can anyone confirm that?

**Hashassin** · 11-30-2009 01:04 PM

two reasons that makes it good

the wounding model like when i fell out of a chopper but someone had to bandage me
to stop me from bleeding to death.

Also knives i see a possible knife fight TVT game with wierness like wabit hunt.

i say we keep the knives in the modpack if not everything

**Dredge** · 11-30-2009 01:12 PM

the only prob with the knifes is if you hit a vehicle with them it blows up. Alot of room there for someone to mess around and *BOOM*! 10 new crows on the map

**Miles Teg** · 11-30-2009 01:50 PM

Hmm... I'm a bit torn between the two. I never noticed any delay using ZEUS in CQB, however the long range accuracy problem always pisses me off as the AK series of weapons are not known for their accuracy and I get extremely pissed off when slotted from 500 meters by a damn AK. So in that regard, I much prefer SLX AI. However, while I did like the suppressive fire (and the AI did a little bit of flanking on one occasion on Morning Star Day 1), they seemed fairly easy to kill but maybe because we had the difficulty of the AI set down too low. So maybe with it cranked up, it'll rock almost as much as Zeus when it comes to AI aggressiveness.
However for shear "HOLY CRAP! CHARLIES IN THE WIRE CHARLIES IN THE WIRE!!!" pure pucker factor, Zeus AI is definitely way high on the terror scale. We were brutalized but wow it made us really feel like we were fighting for our lives against a highly skilled human opponent. It really did take mission realism up a knotch to a new level and I was left a bit breathless afterwards wondering how the AI suddenly got such balls.
Now...the question is.... do the two conflict with each other and if not, could they both be used at the same time? That would be ideal I think.

Whatever the case, it is only a temporary thing until ACE2 comes out. I'm just afraid that after playing against super high-speed AI on Zeus, that ACE2 will feel like a letdown. On the plus side, Zeus will make us vastly better players where nothing is taken for granted and you will truly earn your victories!
But SLX is probably more like what the ACE2 AI will be like so really there are no bad choices. Either way, things will be improved a bit.

**Dredge** · 11-30-2009 02:14 PM

If there where only someway to combine the two. The highly skilled AI of Zeus and the borg collective concept of SLX. Then we would have uber AI that can give us a run for our money.

Resistance is futile lol.

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