Re: 15 FEB; Event AAR

**TheBigC** · 02-16-2009, 12:51 PM

There was a reason why there was a long wait at the briefing screen, so everyone could connect. Once they caught up they would have been fine.

As far as passwording the event, i locked it to see if it was better then JIP. It was. When there is JIP, password or not it caused havoc with so many clients. Now if people were to show up on time, there would be no reason for JIP, passwords. I did not want to punish the people that did show up on time for the ones that were late.

**glenn** · 02-16-2009, 01:10 PM

well for my 1st time playing arma with proper structure was awesome,i really enjoyed having leaders leading and following.Unfortunately my power supply died so i didn,t finish mission(3 &1/2 hrs whoa).

**Xmaster** · 02-16-2009, 01:11 PM

Damn looks like I missed a whole lot of quality action. I hate having to work on sundays...I cant attend any events.

**GeneralCarver** · 02-16-2009, 01:21 PM

I really enjoyed myself. I think everyone did great. And I agree with some of the comments above, there are some things we could iron out via communication and mission features.

However, getting on the subject of communication, I am in agreement with BigC that ArmA in game comms is good enough. We must accept the reality that having TS as a requirement for comms will increase the number of people who crash. (alt tabbing out back and forth etc.). Like it or not, thats reality. In game comms work.

And further... I am very disheartened to see that no one here has thought of using the "mute" feature in the player list window (accessable in game with "P") to help filter comms traffic. Next mission I lead..I will announce to all squad members (not leaders) that they are to Mute myself and other squad leaders. This will hlep with filtering too much chat coming across players.

Finally... I have a very small amount of empathy for complaints of noise and confusion when managing squads. If squad leaders would use the in-game commander menu it would near eliminate 70% of verbal traffic in a squad. But.. at the cost that the commander has to command and may not get as much "action" as his squad.

I will really ride the commanders under me about this next game because its incredibly powerful. I use it all the time. I've played entire missions where I said no more than a few sentences to my squad.

**beita** · 02-16-2009, 02:14 PM

To be honest, I don't really have much to add to an AAR here ... just a few things:

In the future, I would like to see some sort system to allow players to reconnect. Yes, JIP causes lag, but, if you only allow it say, once every 30 minutes, you can minimize it, and still allow people who crashed to rejoin.

Not sure if you guys were aware or not, but you started the session with 43 players in game. By the end of it, there was 28. Now, not all of these were due to crashes I'm sure, but a good 50% of them were.

Secondly, I would like to see more shorter missions rather than one long one. If the JIP idea isn't implemented, this would be a good compromise.

Simple fact is that ArmA is not a stable game. Modding an unstable game leads to an unstable mod. I am not complaining or looking for sympathy or anything, but I did not get to play a minute of the event even though I was there 1 hour early ...

That, in my opinion, means something went seriously wrong, and needs to be rethought.

**GeneralCarver** · 02-16-2009, 02:56 PM

Yeah. Maybe we could open up the server for reconnects after an objective has been completed? Like last night after we took the check point. we could have ralley for a 5 min break and allow JIP. we'll get this ironed out, its the first one w/ that many people.

**WaterIsPoison** · 02-16-2009, 02:59 PM

Additionally, do you think that server load would be better if we played TvT? Large 50+ coop missions involve a lot of AI. If we were to play TvT instead, perhaps the server load would be significantly less that a password JiP would be sufficient.

**Bamboo** · 02-16-2009, 03:07 PM

@beita
We had lots of guys that crashed out and rejoined. They just came up to the Admin channel and asked for the server to be unlocked for a sec. so they could get in. Would have been happy to have gotten you back in.

And Igor, that is an AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! AAR.
As for the point about communication and stuff from SL's, you were in my squad and I could have done better with that. I wasn't used to having a 10 man squad, and it was a lot more complicated to keep track of everyone than it is in 6 man PR squads. Will do better next time.

My squad did really well though, even with the weird IED blasts. The reason I took the squad back down through the town is it had already been cleared, and the IED's had already gone off. My medics Jorge at the end and Gunner at the beginning did an awesome job of keeping people patched up.

Echo Squad
Bamboo
Lq.Snake
Super Cobra
Igor
Nic
Sarge
PuFu
JohnFlenaly
Gunner
Marine

Those were at the start, but by the end we also had Jorge join, and I think someone replaced PuFu as well.

Here are just a few more screen shots.

**Miles** · 02-16-2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by GeneralCarver

And further... I am very disheartened to see that no one here has thought of using the "mute" feature in the player list window (accessable in game with "P") to help filter comms traffic. Next mission I lead..I will announce to all squad members (not leaders) that they are to Mute myself and other squad leaders. This will hlep with filtering too much chat coming across players.

Thanks GC. I was completely unaware of this feature. ArmA has so many controls and keys, I didn't even know that I could do this. This will help with cutting down on the confusion a lot for me. If everyone uses the mute feature, follows comm channel procedures, and uses the command interface more, I think we can get by with the in-game VOIP no problem.

Even in casual games I'm going to be recommending that mute button to the rest of my teams from now on. And I obviously need to go into SP and spend some more time with the command interface. I would love to see this feature make it into a more detailed write-up on what is expected of all TG players.

**Blackdog1** · 02-16-2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by beita

In the future, I would like to see some sort system to allow players to reconnect. Yes, JIP causes lag, but, if you only allow it say, once every 30 minutes, you can minimize it, and still allow people who crashed to rejoin.I am not complaining or looking for sympathy or anything, but I did not get to play a minute of the event even though I was there 1 hour early ...

That, in my opinion, means something went seriously wrong, and needs to be rethought.

I have to say, I had no idea why you of all people that uses TS so much, simply didnt come and ask us on the admin channel to unlock, for you to get back in, just as others did. You of all people should know that we value your participation and you would have been back in game 5 minutes after crashing had you asked.

Maybe a lesson learned for next time?

Best
BD1

**beita** · 02-16-2009, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Blackdog1-22 Reg.SAS

I have to say, I had no idea why you of all people that uses TS so much, simply didnt come and ask us on the admin channel to unlock, for you to get back in, just as others did. You of all people should know that we value your participation and you would have been back in game 5 minutes after crashing had you asked.

Maybe a lesson learned for next time?

Best
BD1

Well, the post specifically said there was to be NO JIP until the mission was over. I respected that wish.

Also, the post again specifically said to NOT disturb the players in game on TS, so it seemed quite clear that we were simply to wait till the mission ended.

I see that it has already been changed for the next session, so, as far as I am concerned the problem is solved.

**TheBigC** · 02-16-2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by beita

Well, the post specifically said there was to be NO JIP until the mission was over. I respected that wish.

Also, the post again specifically said to NOT disturb the players in game on TS, so it seemed quite clear that we were simply to wait till the mission ended.

I see that it has already been changed for the next session, so, as far as I am concerned the problem is solved.

Yeah, that was definitely something we adjusted on the fly yesterday and will be implementing full time. JIP if managed for people that crash, is easy, they are limited. It is the dozens of others that try and connect that we have issues.

The reason we did not announce it over teh general channel was their was a dozen or so players that did not start with us, so they were not getting in.

**Igor** · 02-16-2009, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bamboo

@beita
As for the point about communication and stuff from SL's, you were in my squad and I could have done better with that. I wasn't used to having a 10 man squad, and it was a lot more complicated to keep track of everyone than it is in 6 man PR squads. Will do better next time.

My squad did really well though, even with the weird IED blasts. The reason I took the squad back down through the town is it had already been cleared, and the IED's had already gone off. My medics Jorge at the end and Gunner at the beginning did an awesome job of keeping people patched up.

What I meant by "Squad Leaders need to direct their people a little bit more" is telling people what gear to get, where to take cover, what sectors to watch/cover, when to open fire, how to move (bounding, jogging, walking, crawling), etc. Although I concede that the comms issue did limit this task greatly. As for the IEDs, yes, the IEDs had already gone off, I was pretty sure. Therefore, at the moment, continuing through the town made tactical sense as that was our job at the time.

The muting idea is a good one Gen. Carver (AKA Steven). Didn't even think of that. However, I like being able to hear the other SLs and PL at times, so I'm conflicted. As mentioned, sometimes pertinent information to your squad is announced over side chat. Additionally, when you "drafted" me to grab the supply trucks, you (Steven) used side chat.
I do stick by my claim that the side channel chat was minimized since only the SLs and PL used it (for the most part). It would have been total chaos if other people talk on side.

Side note: What is a good number of AI units to use? For my mission, I used ~100 enemy units vs. ~30 friendly (player controlled) units. The enemy is attacking and therefore I struck to the rule of thumb to a successful offense, a 3 to 1 ratio in your favor.
Is the # of AI units to lag a linear relation (as the # of AI units increases the server load and lag increases by a constant value)?
If thats the case, we could try to find ways to minimize lag, spawning ai, minimizing scripts, etc.

**bert** · 02-16-2009, 06:31 PM

That was a very nice event yesterday, I for one had a lot of fun, thanks to all players and those who organized it. Sorry for the people who crashed/lagged out at the beginning. For a software more than two years after release, that's really a bad sign. ;-)

I was thrown pretty roughly into SL position, I hope the squad members had at least some fun with my stupid commands. I loved how we got devastated in that forest south of the airport, that was imho the best moment, since it was pretty intense. I just wished people were trying harder to keep an eye out on the squad formation and not run around/off too much. Seemingly, my commands regarding that were not clear enough (or disregarded or overheard, I don't know ;-)).

@Miles: I don't know why you (and possibly others) had problems hearing me, I think for most of the time, my input level is pretty high on the mic (I'd be glad if people told me so if it's otherwise, talking to myself is something I don't need to run Arma for ;-)). Also, I really like to yell over direct, so I am sorry when I forgot to use group chan for commands once in a while.

What I did not like about this mission specifically were the long range engagements by the tanks and the APCs, but I understand that this is a matter of taste. But I am also sure that many share my taste in this respect. When the infantry moved in, the work was mostly done. As a side note: Same goes for the huge amount of scoped weapons in the infantry (which became an issue with the advent of ACE weapons boxes). I for one find it boring to take out the dumb AI in 500m distance. They simply don't react in a good way (taking cover etc.) so this quickly becomes shooting fish in a barrel. Unfortunately, this happens now roughly in every second mission I play, and I wished scopes were either restricted by the lead or the weapons loadout by itself (like in beta's missions for example). Moving in with iron sights into a city and clearing it out house by house (which we also did yesterday) really puts some pressure on everyone and is actually a challenge of some sort (of course still not like TvT).

I also don't like the idea of giving orders using the command interface. To me, the use of real speech is one of the reasons why I like Arma so much. Giving and taking commands with all the difficulties it brings with it (making yourself clear, being precise etc.) is something I would not like to miss since it adds so much to the experience.

Steven did a great job as Plt. Cmd., I liked how he did not take the short route but let us have some fun in these towns on the way to the objective.

Oh, and thanks for all the nice images, maybe someone also recorded some action?

Looking forward to the next time.

**Harpo245** · 02-16-2009, 08:09 PM

It was a great event. I had a bit of trouble as MG, because of my PC limitations, my low view distance meant I couldn't see as far as my SL (sorry Blackdog). And example was the recon of the crossroads leading to the checkpoint. I also saw a lot of jumping and lag when the convoy was moving. I wasn't driving or gunning, so not a big issue. The lag would go away once we disembarked. I do agree with Dsylecxi, though, the convoy was pretty close, what with ACE's cruel simulation of reality. Personally, the IED town was interesting. Nobody expected it, and it mixed things up. Cheers to Mr. Seagal for handling the awkward situation. You don't have to be told about everything in a briefing. Also, I don't see a problem with using ACE weapons, so long as they keep to the class (grenadier, AR etc.). ACOGs are standard issue in real life, I believe, so no biggie, but didn't understand the fact why our medic had an M107. I think ACE should remove that weapon altogether if possible. If someone's going to get a 2GB big mod, the least they could do is use the weapons they waited 20 minutes to download.

On a more specific note, being under the orders of Blackdog, I trusted him and have seen him lead before. He had no falters, and one everything to the best of his ability. What happened at the airport guardhouse was no one's fault :P (we were jumped by a wave of OPFOR at the airport, and we ended up in a mangled heap of SF, theres a picture in Igor's post, near the bottom). I believe our squad was probably the most succesful up to the airport. One of our men was killed by a friendly vehicle, one by enemy fire. We only lost 2 men.
The armour done a great job. They engaged, they killed. They also left nothing for the infantry to chew on

Cheers to CharlesDarwin for hauling our sorry, SF behinds to the line.

Great event, can't wait for the next one. Hopefully any problems there were will be solved.

Also, congratulations to Static

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