Re: Operation Minotaur

**LCpl. Soto** · 04-13-2009, 02:00 PM

Like I said earlier, excellent job on the mission plan and getting everyone organized. We all stepped of quickly once in game and knew what to do.

Things that I would of changed:

1. if you didn't want to use the Apache to make it more challenging, then that is understandable. Me personally, I like using all the resources I have available to me to reduce the amount of casualties sustained. So using the Apache is one thing I would of suggested doing.

2. The disembark point Lima was too close to the city in my opinion and we were lucky the BMP didn't kill more of us and that there weren't a few enemy RPG teams near the north end of the city. An Apache could of prepped the disembark area for us to ensure it was clear or safe, or we could of disembarked further away and moved in on foot after getting a good look at the area.

3. The special forces LZ was dangerous because they were landing in the middle of a hostile city. Luckily things went okay and they landed without being blown up but again, an Apache could of prepped their LZ to make it safer or the Blackhawk could of been used for extraction once we had the objective area secured and our perimeter was setup.

4. Was a nicely done plan but due to the fact that their were only 2 squads, 1 Bluefor and 1 Independent, the sectors we were suppose to secure for the perimeter spread us too thin and only would of worked if we only suffered a couple of casualties at max. Not really your fault though, this type of mission should of had a Platoon at the least. I would of used a company to dominate the area but the game has it's limits.

Anyways, just some suggestions, you did a great job leading us Xmaster and look forward to having you command future events. : ]

**Blackdog1** · 04-13-2009, 05:02 PM

From one of the screenshots Bamboo took....the quote in the dead channel was...

"How did you die Jeepo?"......

To which my answer would be...."He started the game, so it is only a matter of short time..."

**Gena** · 04-13-2009, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Rocco

God, i didnt know that it was that close! I was one of the first guys who mounted the chinook and heard Kimmeh say: "Dont say phew, we are not home yet" or something like that. Nice video, we should make more of them!

And XMaster, that after action report is phenomenal!

Ye I can remember that!The words "phew" was spoken.And a few seconds later we just miss an rocket!

Thanks Kimmeh you saved us from hell.

Well this was my 1st event and I did really enjoy it.The RRR's rocked!

There was a few dirty words that was used that ennoyed me a bit.I just want to remind the guys that there is a lady playing with us.We need to respect that.

To Jeepo and Xmaster thanks for spicing up the game.And the good game support you guys give.

**Tripper** · 04-13-2009, 08:00 PM

Hello, I was the SL for 1-1-C, consisting of |TSg| DUC748s, Vikk, and Lt. Razgriz.

I thought the plan was pretty well laid out. I liked how Xmaster set up the independant forces blocking the ingress/egress road to the target, which prevented the assault team from getting jumped.

I thought that the LZ stood a good chance of being hot, but Kimmeh did an excellent job getting in and out with great speed. We did start taking fire, but the helo was clear. Xmaster got us sorted out, and my squad got tail end Charlie duty, in that we were tasked to keep our rear in the clear. This we did.

We had very good commo and coordination with 1-1-B.

As we approached the target, we were in a constant running firefight, mostly in the direction of the advance, but our squad did have to brush back a few insurgent sorties. The mission was a bit of a meatgrinder, though, and we lost quite a few of our men.

1-1-C performed admirably and covered our rear in spite of the temptation to run to the gunfire. Congrats to Vikk on surviving.

Regarding Kimmeh, she took any and all ribbing with great humor, and gave as good as she got. However, this could easily become tiresome for her, and I would hope that we maintain a more professional attitude in the future. We should strive to keep excellent players rather than making them uncomfortable.

**Jeepo** · 04-13-2009, 08:25 PM

Agree with both Eugene and Trip on that, and I will reiterate on what I said in global ingame. I accept certain little comments and the occasional swear will pop out, but there is no need and will be no tolerance for any other sort of crap out there people. I don't like using my admin channel in game, but any silly inuendo offensive comments will be dealt with, but really people, just use you heads yeah, I am all for a bit of fun, slagging xmaster and blackdog is my favourite past time, but there is a line gents...that being said, if kimmeh had crashed....

Now go out and enjoy!

**Rocco** · 04-13-2009, 08:40 PM

Ribbon Nominations

Rocco, I'm really glad you are doing a ribbon nom, but you don't do it in this forum.
Click on the link in my sig, just below the bamboo picture, and you can read about it and click the " Submit a nomination! " link that is in bold letters there.

I am going to PM you what you wrote so you don't have to retype it, just copy and paste.
And again, thanks for nominating someone. It can really boost a person's mojo and keep them coming back to TG for more.

**MarineSeaknight** · 04-14-2009, 12:42 AM

1-1-B BluFor BRAVO SQUAD HOORAH?

Bamboozle, 2IC and Automatic Rifleman

Gunner, Pointman with an easily identfiable face

Worldsprayer, Grenadier/ACOG Marksman

Thanks to my awesome squad members who followed me into glorious battle while I only had a measily 6 FPS going. Excellent work gentlemen, and the same goes for Xmaster for being a great CO throughout the whole mission, as well as the entire team.

See you guys next week!

**aceking** · 04-14-2009, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Xmaster

Teamspeak Overlay:
http://www.teamspeakoverlay.com/

Shame its not compatible with Vista.

I have Windows Vista 64 and I just run it anyways. Seems to work fine for me.

**Xmaster** · 04-14-2009, 01:50 AM

Oh cool will give it a try then.

**Apocal** · 04-15-2009, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Jeepo_SAS

And lets see some Ribbon Nominations to whoever you all think warrants them, there is no finer way to show your appreciation than that. So, lets get those rolling!

Big64 who went from FTL to SL (then to PL?) for the independent side.

I'd just like to add, while the mission overall was good, it's pretty unsat to have four changes of command during the mission. Seriously, if you're PL or SL don't get go in riding/walking point. You're splitting your attention between maintaining command and control of your people and doing all the necessary shennigans to keep yourself alive. Or in this case not doing them.

And I know it's cool to task organize the platoon medics out to the individual squads, but I was taught (I recognize that everyone probably wasn't taught this way) that the rest of the plt HQ element (corpsman, radioman, etc.) acts as kind of a personal security det. for the PL. I don't know the exact circumstances of how exactly the PL was shot within the first three minutes of taking contact, front sight focus and all, but it certainly could not hurt if he had somebody (some bodies) doctrinally tasked with watching his back and making sure he doesn't do anything stupid to get himself slotted.

**LCpl. Soto** · 04-15-2009, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by Apocal

Big64 who went from FTL to SL (then to PL?) for the independent side.

I'd just like to add, while the mission overall was good, it's pretty unsat to have four changes of command during the mission. Seriously, if you're PL or SL don't get go in riding/walking point. You're splitting your attention between maintaining command and control of your people and doing all the necessary shennigans to keep yourself alive. Or in this case not doing them.

And I know it's cool to task organize the platoon medics out to the individual squads, but I was taught (I recognize that everyone probably wasn't taught this way) that the rest of the plt HQ element (corpsman, radioman, etc.) acts as kind of a personal security det. for the PL. I don't know the exact circumstances of how exactly the PL was shot within the first three minutes of taking contact, front sight focus and all, but it certainly could not hurt if he had somebody (some bodies) doctrinally tasked with watching his back and making sure he doesn't do anything stupid to get himself slotted.

Actually the PL (was a squad leader) and my FTL (they were fireteams not squads, the Independent side was roughly a squad all together) were second vehicle and they both died almost right away. We were all under fire and a few grenades even came in close. So Jeepo died, my ftl died, then I died after I got everyone out of that area. The only reason they died specifically was bad luck, could of been anyone. The reason why things went sour so quick was because the disembark point was too close to the city and a BRDM happened to be there.

Following the plan, they really couldn't of avoided being at high risk of dieing in that situation. I know I died because a dead insurgent wasn't really dead and woke up after a bit and shot me through a narrow opening in the wall. Just like my FTL died almost right away when there were others near him that could of just as easily been shot instead. I'm pretty sure Jeepo died almost right away too as did one of the other FTL's. We were all bunched up trying to take cover from the BRDM and that was just how the cookie crumbled.

**Apocal** · 04-15-2009, 04:20 AM

So what happened with the second guy to take over? I recall he had some time commanding, although that may have been just because he was killed and no one noticed.

**LCpl. Soto** · 04-15-2009, 05:36 AM

Behind the building we first disembarked at, while taking fire from the BRDM and several insurgents, the following events took place:

LowSpeed had told me that our FTL, BarnacleOfDoom had died, I called Jeepo our Squadleader to let him know but I had no response. I assumed he was dead, which he was, so I hailed the other FTL's and one from one of the other teams had died so Rocco took over their team. Big64 was the only original FTL alive, so I started telling everyone to move into the compound west of us because it had some cover, LowSpeed found a way in and we made sure that everyone went in. Once I was inside I was talking to Dreadlee at the South of the compound. I was trying to find his FTL so we could organize and get moving but off on my side I saw an enemy get up that was lying on his back earlier and he shot me and killed me instantly through this door way that I was at an angle too It was only a small opening from where I was standing. From there, I think Big64 was able too get everyone moving, though not sure what happened after I died.

I had seen LowSpeed looking for me while I was spectating so thanks but I was lying in a pool of my own blood by then :*(

**beita** · 04-15-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Apocal

Big64 who went from FTL to SL (then to PL?) for the independent side.

I'd just like to add, while the mission overall was good, it's pretty unsat to have four changes of command during the mission. Seriously, if you're PL or SL don't get go in riding/walking point. You're splitting your attention between maintaining command and control of your people and doing all the necessary shennigans to keep yourself alive. Or in this case not doing them.

And I know it's cool to task organize the platoon medics out to the individual squads, but I was taught (I recognize that everyone probably wasn't taught this way) that the rest of the plt HQ element (corpsman, radioman, etc.) acts as kind of a personal security det. for the PL. I don't know the exact circumstances of how exactly the PL was shot within the first three minutes of taking contact, front sight focus and all, but it certainly could not hurt if he had somebody (some bodies) doctrinally tasked with watching his back and making sure he doesn't do anything stupid to get himself slotted.

I've played this mission a few times before ... and I agree with LCpl. Soto, this is NOT a Platoon at all. It is a squad.

Also, I think trying to get a squad leader to lead from "behind" is going to be a little difficult, especially when contact starts getting thick and people are easily confused and/or don't pay great attention to comms. I've found myself it is about 1000x easier to simply run up to someone and say on direct FOLLOW ME, rather than try and explain where you want them to position their team over group chat (god forbid it's Side channel ...), yeah, don't do things that are going to put you REALLY exposed (manning MGs, using AT weapons, etc.), but staying in the back of your squad isn't really an option for a squad leader IMO.

Platoon lead is a whole different story. No reason for a Platoon commander to be clearing buildings etc. It sucks when you take leader casualties, it gets worse and worse the higher up you go. Succession of command is something that needs to be worked on if it is really causing problems in a mission. It doesn't really matter WHO takes command, as long as SOMEONE does it. Otherwise the squads/fireteams/whatever are going to simply start working on their own, and at that point, you have lost any advantage of larger numbers, you are basically just a bunch of small groups.

Having leaders die is a great way to learn how to lead larger elements, without having to do all the boring administrative stuff at the start. IMO, anyone who wants to lead an element, should be prepared to lead the next higher element in the group. If you are a FTL, you should be prepared to lead the squad, if you are a squad, you should be prepared to lead the Platoon. Having leaders who are worried about leading larger groups leads to hesitation when there is leader casualties, and that can cause a LOT of casualties and often the failure of the mission.

**LCpl. Soto** · 04-15-2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by beita

I've played this mission a few times before ... and I agree with LCpl. Soto, this is NOT a Platoon at all. It is a squad.

Also, I think trying to get a squad leader to lead from "behind" is going to be a little difficult, especially when contact starts getting thick and people are easily confused and/or don't pay great attention to comms. I've found myself it is about 1000x easier to simply run up to someone and say on direct FOLLOW ME, rather than try and explain where you want them to position their team over group chat (god forbid it's Side channel ...), yeah, don't do things that are going to put you REALLY exposed (manning MGs, using AT weapons, etc.), but staying in the back of your squad isn't really an option for a squad leader IMO.

Platoon lead is a whole different story. No reason for a Platoon commander to be clearing buildings etc. It sucks when you take leader casualties, it gets worse and worse the higher up you go. Succession of command is something that needs to be worked on if it is really causing problems in a mission. It doesn't really matter WHO takes command, as long as SOMEONE does it. Otherwise the squads/fireteams/whatever are going to simply start working on their own, and at that point, you have lost any advantage of larger numbers, you are basically just a bunch of small groups.

Having leaders die is a great way to learn how to lead larger elements, without having to do all the boring administrative stuff at the start. IMO, anyone who wants to lead an element, should be prepared to lead the next higher element in the group. If you are a FTL, you should be prepared to lead the squad, if you are a squad, you should be prepared to lead the Platoon. Having leaders who are worried about leading larger groups leads to hesitation when there is leader casualties, and that can cause a LOT of casualties and often the failure of the mission.

Completely agree with what you said here. Urban environments can be hectic and confusing and the squadleader needs to be in the thick of it to keep everyone organized. Xmaster did a good job with letting us know the succession of command so all of that was pretty much in the briefing. Regardless though, like you said, FTL's need to be ready to step up and lead their squad and squadleaders better be ready to take over the entire operation.

I usually play as an FTL and their have been many times where I end up leading the rest of my squad or sometimes the rest of Bluefor (small plt) after first contact in public games. Usually happens becuase a leader or a few of them die. If someone doesn't step up then it quickly becomes a free for all with each fireteam or squad doing whatever they want. It is quite frustrating too when someone steps up to keep the mission going but no one else wants to step up and keep their fireteams or squad in check. It makes leading that much harder. Sunday events don't seem to have that much of a problem though since we have a decent amount of willing and capable leaders that show up.

Link to a description on the differences between fireteams, squads, and platoons: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...-platoons.html

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