Re: PATROL OPS MSO Suggestions and requests

**BL1P** · 06-14-2012, 03:16 PM

Also

The guy who made patrol ops released a new version of patrol ops !!

**Chichco** · 06-14-2012, 07:30 PM

@Andy/Pax idk coz i tho its not same person be4

1) I do it only when u CO coz after u come and take CO we have post and im agree with it, i dont come to server to waste 1-2 hours on base when u check each bullet 4 each soldier, after this when u stop at each civ and trying disarm him, when we take rockets by flying over roadblocks. We 80% of time on base be4 or after die and again up to 1 hour to check all bullets. Belive me old commanders works 3 time faster and players have fun be4 'time to get going..', we comlete several missions be4 going to sleep. I think u specially take callsigns like.. how was that, Romeo-Bravo-23? Yeah my Engl bad u know it and i broke my tongue when tryin say that and forget what i wanna say

Ur callsigns longer than my msg

Im playing in team when CO know how 2 use Rangefinder, DAGR, AT and other simple stuff but not runing around and askin help with it. Im coming here every time with hope not u this time CO, if in my 1st time here u was as CO ive never comes here again.

2) Thx Ady, maybe wiki will help u fix it be4 take lead as minimum

a) When there is 1 player on server some1 take CO and wait other players to give them slots what he like, some1 take sniper (not only me, u saw it 3 hours ago Andy/Pax) coz its rationally (sniper can kill crew in armor so not must_have AT). And when there is >10 players some old and smart CO put JIPs in recon and give them recon tasks, belive me when CO is smart i have fun in recon team with DemonicRaven (sry if wrong) w/o any shots from our side for more than 3 hours. BTW we have 2-3 snipers in each enemy squad and they have SVD and KSVK, u know how use wiki to find range of it. Ur 'DM' will never know from what direction and what range he take a bullet in his ...eye... If u dont know how use snipers dont say mission dont need it, its only u. Seems soon we lose in MSO mortars and A10 coz 'dont take it, its not working, we test it'© or some 'CO' never use it as recon..

b) U write what im doing while u as CO moving around base to make perfect screenshot, but there are another players who like this slot

c) Again, who say u that? Some CO send recon with task recon or cover. What orders u give? I write some posts above..
d) Yeah, usually 3 = CO, medic and AT/MG. MG cant destroy armor, AT cant kill inf. So team stuck. But ambitions dont let CO take AT/MG slot and they move around base for screenshots. But when enough players some CO fill up recon team while dont wanna lose all convoy by surprise as roadblock or smthng.

Dont hasten BL1P, hope in some time we (me/Andy/Pax/others) will find the good for all us way. Its not depends from slot, i think its depends from people how to use it, sniper, AT, MG, CO and other. LoneWolf can be with m9.

1 more reason: There is only 1 mission when u alone - its Domi, when ppl c that some1 on server they come in. Ur mission is 2nd when sniper able, CO cant do anything w/o 3 players. And its np 2 change slot when all work as team, w/o ambitions.

**Andy** · 06-15-2012, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Chichco

@Andy/Pax idk coz i tho its not same person be4

1) [...] i dont come to server to waste 1-2 hours on base when u check each bullet 4 each soldier, after this when u stop at each civ and trying disarm him, when we take rockets by flying over roadblocks. We 80% of time on base be4 or after die and again up to 1 hour to check all bullets. Belive me old commanders works 3 time faster and players have fun be4 'time to get going..', we comlete several missions be4 going to sleep. I think u specially take callsigns like.. how was that, Romeo-Bravo-23? Yeah my Engl bad u know it and i broke my tongue when tryin say that and forget what i wanna say

Ur callsigns longer than my msg[...]

1.
a) I try to do it fast. Just read in the link you posted, and you find me "agree" somewhere.
b) Of course we check at "each" civi who could be a possible Trigger man of an IED. I don't play that game to get as many missions as possible, before I go to sleep.
I enjoy the complete gameplay. Everything we do, cause its a simulation. I like driving in convoy, just moving in a column, and of course get some fighting. But completing the mission is not my primary task, until its a "Simulation" and not "CoD", where you *must* complete tasks to be the best on the server, and to get points to unlock stupid stuff.
Its a simulatin, especially with ACE ACRE... keep that in mind, please.
I'm just trying to get some organization in the game. I'm not fine with the kind of gameplay, because it drops even *below* the gameplay level of a Vanilla-Domi server.
And I'm not coming here to have some "semi-realistic" Vanilla-Games with ACE and ACRE.

Also, my callsigns are basic knowledge. Everybody who plays the game should be able to understand them very easy. Especially after I explained it already:
"Foxtrot " is the Squads name (just a letter from the military phonetic alphabet)
The additions "Actual", "Romeo" or "Romeo 1" etc have an additional meaning:
"Actual" means, that the person curretly talking is the actual Squad Leader
"Romeo" (as example) means, that the RTO (radio operator) of the Squad is currently talking.
(don't forget the "Over" or "Out" at the end of transmissions =)

Also, thats why not everybody should run around with 148s. Platoon net (Long Range) is for Commanding elements. I don't need the complete squad to talk on the 148.
Also, you can't even make so many callsigns for everybody. It would just be messy.

This is very basic, and very important to keep overview on comms.

Wowever, I don't want to discuss this here. Its "suggestion" thread, keep it at "suggestions".

PS: If I'm CO or SL, Its my decision how to lead my squad. I personally prefer to play the level of professionel gameplay I was used from some servers before.
Chichco, if you don't like me as CO and you don't like my way of commanding, you can take the CO/SL slot whenever you want to. Like you did yesterday, and it seemed to work.

**Chichco** · 06-15-2012, 05:12 AM

Anyway ill write here coz it seems to me ur suggestions depends from our conflict, but i dont want other teams lose recon in MSO.

Andy/Pax i rly like how u use radio, but i dont like how u use weapon/power what we have at base. I think u havent use recon with sniper, A10, Mortar coz u dont rly know how use it. What 'professionel gameplay' u speak about when u dont know weapons in ur squad, range and power?! Ur words 'dont take it its not workin we test it' shows u going right way when wanna increase ur knowledge, but seems u make mistake somewhere and its looks bugged 2 u. When other guy take it and use w/o any problem its make u angry. Maybe im wrong its my view, some1 say me 'they dont like snipers coz they wanna use it 2'

Idk what about others but im here not only for correct using radio and prettily parade to target to die there. Its tactical server and i think 1 of the tasks here is to make plan how complete mission with minimum casualties and best time and implement it. And if there 3-4 players dont take CO coz have medic better for team, u can lead as medic. CO slot gives only ability to respawn A10, put JIP markers and use HuntIR if im correct. I think 4 team of 3-4 players better have medic or smthng than have CO and wait other players some hours (medic have same weap and can heal guys w/o legs, engineer have same weap and mortar, markers 4 JIPs u can put in side). Thats i mean teamplay. To attack roadblock BLUFOR humvee need GL or sniper (M2 gunners need more shots 5.45 to be killed than inf) coz 2xM2 AI at bunkers shooting better than 1 player in humvee w M2, experience says. To attack armor BLUFOR need AT, A10 or sniper to kill crew. To attack enemy squads at target zone little BLUFOR team need mortar, A10 or sniper (again, experience says sniper more accurate than MG and more powerful on big distances, at close dist 1 MG will not save team from 3 enemy squads and BLUFOR die and should again start from base).

So i mean we should not have CO, AT, medic and wait on base other players or start attack and die in 5 mins after exit from base, its not 'professionel gameplay'. I think we should better use what we have at base (not depends is it enough players or not). Sniper can be more useful 4 team than u think ATM. Not close to reality? What reality u speak about when 5 guys going war with 120 km^2 of BMPs and T55?! But if u come u have task and try to complete it, i think. U wanna clear way to AO while not enough players? OK, but think be4 what u need to do it (dying every 5 mins not very tactical gameplay). When there 4 players its seems to me not ground combat, its close to special operation.

P.S. Yeah its simulator. And OK u havent primary target complete objs (strange 4 me but OK u CO). But when u leave base with 4 guys u should be ready for: ~6 inf + 2xM2 at each roadblock, ~1 squad in each 5km^2, ~3 veh/armor + ~3 inf squads at AO. I think players coming here to have fun with perspective to win, but slots u give to players and weapons what we use dont give chance at 1st fight 3-5 km away from base (im still mean little team what we usually have last time, so what reason start play if we anyway will die?!). Lets stop die and start win!

Maybe next meet in game u'll let me show what i mean and how it may looks. Team with 4 guys better than 4 teams with 1 guy so im not sure its good idea. Same as 'a volunteer is worth twenty pressed men'.

P.P.S: ROFL just found -restrict weapons to roles and remove the "super-duper-killing-machine-sniper-teams" (snipers are usually for observation and taking out HVTs) Seems u wanna remove snipers from every mission coz u have personal problem with it.. OMFG Hawk this 16 y.o. guy wanna remove our rifles and attack enemy SVD&KSVK with M16(read below 'SDM-R: Used by the United States Army in limited numbers')!!! There is no enemy president in MSO to use DMR (below 'Mk 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle: Used by the United States Army and Navy SEALs' same 7.62 but M14 semi-automatic)!!!

keep goin! Dont wanna fight with wall. Wake up! Where u was when world start use scope rifles at war, why u havent say 'Stop WW2! U, yes U! Come here! Use scope only when u c Gitler in window at 500m!'

**AdeptAbyss** · 06-15-2012, 08:10 AM

If I could slap you guys I would...I think your last 4 walls of text each have covered the same stuff each time, and I don't like reading that much this early.

Ok, so andy wants the sniper removed, because it increases the chance of "Lonewolfs" Chichco wants to keep it because if its used right it is a very useful kit that can provide useful intel to the CO. I agree with both points.

First yes, sniper can cause lonewolfs, using a sniper is like shooting fish in a barrel when facing AI, how to combat this? Inform the sniper that if you roll into the AO after they have deployed and you find dead bodies everywhere that they will be kicked and reported to admins. If they do it again do the same, It wont be long before they are no longer playing as part of TG.

Second, for all you want to be snipers out there. Learn to spot! Learn to mark! Learn to read a map! Learn all this before you even learn how to shoot the damm gun. When you enter the game, first thing you do is ask if the CO wants a Sniper slot, if they say no, DO NOT CRY AND MOAN. After this, you will need to coordinate with the CO for radio channels with other elements so you can guide them in, afterwards go to the AO, find a nice spot over-watching the objective and start marking targets, watch for patrol routes, count the number of infantry, how many tanks, what type where, recommendations for approach recommendations for attack etc etc. YOU ARE NOT the one man killing machine of doom that everyone looks up too, you are the difference between life and death for the men, success and failure for a plan. In battle Information is king (unless arty is there).

The sniper is a very powerful tool, one that when used right can make a mission fun to play for all, or when used wrong can ruin the fun for everyone, its the same as a tank, or the A-10. Its all in how its used but do not let one guy being a lonewolf ruin the sniper slot for you.

Also on another note, Commanding, this is important to remember, yes your in command and yes people should do what you say when you say it, but you are also responsible for making the mission fun for everyone under your command, it is a game after all, if we wanted it to be super serious we would run it like the army. You need to find a mix between how you like to command and how to make it fun. So checking every building, every civ checking that bin or spending hours to move 900ms when your still several KM from the AO is boring! Walking through an empty desert on patrol is boring!, people come here to shoot bad guys and save the day, but in an organized fashion with leadership. This is the difference between someone who leads and someone people will follow, its also the hardest thing to learn at TG.

SO commanders why not next time you lead, ask how people want to complete it, shall they nuke the site from orbit? or spend those hours crossing that street.

Anyway, can we stop with this now? this has turned into pages of back and forth about 1 topic.

Ps Look at what you've done! You made me wall of text!

**Andy** · 06-15-2012, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Chichco

[...]
P.P.S: ROFL just found -restrict weapons to roles and remove the "super-duper-killing-machine-sniper-teams" (snipers are usually for observation and taking out HVTs) Seems u wanna remove snipers from every mission coz u have personal problem with it.. OMFG Hawk this 16 y.o. guy wanna remove our rifles and attack enemy SVD&KSVK with M16(read below 'SDM-R: Used by the United States Army in limited numbers')!!! There is no enemy president in MSO to use DMR (below 'Mk 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle: Used by the United States Army and Navy SEALs' same 7.62 but M14 semi-automatic)!!!

keep goin! Dont wanna fight with wall. Wake up! Where u was when world start use scope rifles at war, why u havent say 'Stop WW2! U, yes U! Come here! Use scope only when u c Gitler in window at 500m!'

If you read it carefull you will see that I'm talking about Domi (which is pretty much the same as MSO, just more messy).
In Domi you have even more pronlems with that sniper-killing-machine-stuff, because everybody has acess to all weapons. Which means you have medics, with heavy AT and anti-material rifle flying around in Black Hawks and doing their Lone-Wolf stuff... I think you can understand why I'm not the big fan of snipers in this mission.

Also I have written in that post, that "snipers are usually for observation and taking out HVTs", which is true (according to Wikipedia) and the same I try to say here.
I have no problems with snipers in general.
I would love to have proper recon. But from what I see every day on the server, is that snipers just do their own stuff because, as said, they don't really know what a sniper does. Thats why I usually try to avoid the sniper-slot.
I hope thats understandable.

With only a few people, I see a SDM more useful, because he moves with the Squad, and it increases the effective range of the squad.
Otherwise you have 2 "teams" moving around in very different positions, instead of having one strong and big team. I shouldn't even start with the problems of communicating.

"Medic is more useful. You can lead the squad as medic".

Yes... and no. Sure you *can*.
But I think everybody should concentrate on one role. If you are medic and SL the same time; who is going to lead the Squad when you need to patch up 4 people? Or who is going to patch up the people when you get shot, because you where "leading" and moving infront of the squad? (example)
Every role is very important, and one person should only do one role at the same time. Medic should do his medic stuff, SL his leading stuff. Both persons have alot of stuff to do.
SL needs to communicate, keep overview, he needs to lead and needs to have good situational awareness.
While a medic is (usually) at the end of the column formation and needs to take care of all wounded soldiers. He needs to check if everybody is fine, if needed he builds a mash or a collevtive point for casulties.
You see, everybody has alot of stuff to do, and if one person (especially Medic) needs to take a 2nd role additionally, he can't concentrate on one thing any more, which means he can't do both jobs very well.
Also, a medic is so important (because of reviving and being a medic in general) that you can't have him walking in front and doing "leading".

As said, lets just stop it here.

**Chichco** · 06-15-2012, 09:30 AM

U make me

U read me tooo literally, nvm medic MG AT GL Eng, CO not so helpful for 4 guys =) forget im stuck

**Pax'Jarome Malues** · 06-19-2012, 05:47 PM

I would like to add a suggestion to my previous one.

I kinda like the Idea of some missions setup with timers.
Obvious medic missions :P

Means:

- save "x" members of a friendly Squad, they're wounded and last contact brought us "y" informations about their last position and the estimated strength of the enemy forces.
- clear the area
- revive all friendly contacts (lifetimer like 6-16 minutes; as a function of the range from HQ to AO)
- evac (1 dead friendly allowed)

some stuff like tht ^^
and maybe add just 1 low equiped (50cal if possible, or no weapon just as a more safe transport), Bradley or Stryker, for ground force support. I mean: we're allways on fight against medium armoured vehicles or even 3 to 5 times T55 or T72... there should be some better option than just driving around with humvees.

**BL1P** · 06-20-2012, 06:23 AM

Commander can order an m1a1 so erm....

^ my version of a wall of text

**Pax'Jarome Malues** · 06-20-2012, 11:04 AM

Commander can order an m1a1 so erm....

never noticed tht, gonna try it next time ^^

**Andy** · 06-22-2012, 11:59 AM

Yeah... 1 tank in 1 hour.
We tried that before... got destroyed 60 seconds after leaving base -.-
Wait 3600 seconds to get a new one...

Sure, its "our fault" if we get destroyed, but we just don't have 20 players to have a working recon squad and convoy. Thats why the assets are "not working" sometimes...

I like the idea of a "balanced" mission... when fighting Insurgents.
But we are fighting Takistani Army and additionally we have heavy roadblocks, heavy AA (rockets, Shilkas etc), IEDs and Insurgents.

I think the BLUFOR in this mission is in big disadvantage.
Most of the vehicles we have (HMMWVs) are mainly designed for Afghanistan and for Insurgents... not really for fighting heavy tanks, AT and the stuff mentioned above.

It would be more belanced if we would have armored APCs (like Strikers or Bradleys), MRAP's and maybe some "Angry Birds" or even a AH-64 or Cobra.
Maybe add (like for the Black Hawks etc) "Drivers" and "Crew" Squads/Slots for these vehicles, so not everybody can drive them.
And maybe some CAS and tanks, which are available more than 1 times an hour... (depending on which asset, maybe 2 or 3 at base, respawn ~30 mins or so)

Greetings from Spain =)

**racinfootball** · 06-22-2012, 12:41 PM

BL1P, ever thought of adding a mk19?

**Dimitrius** · 06-30-2012, 12:45 PM

@ Andy: I've run several successful combat patrols in Arma involving a convoy that included the Abrahms. That is not a defect of BL1P's misson, that is either circumstance, a misunderstanding of how to emply heavy armor, or bad decision making. The next time you are on and we're playing MSO, find me and we'll discuss a few simple tactics to remember when using the Tank. I blew that thing up fifty times before I learned how to utilize it correctly. Granted, it's only my own opinion on how it should be done; everyone has their own preference.

@BL1P: I have some idea's but I will keep them to myself until you are back or in the mood to further remediate your version of MSO. When you've had enough of DAYZ

Let me know and I'll send you my list. And when you Do come back, we're locking the door so you can never leave again.

**Bastard** · 09-23-2012, 12:39 PM

Hey Blip,

I've really been enjoying playing your patrol ops. I have a request though. Since MSO Patrol Ops contains a variety of missions varying from close quarters combat to long range engagement, would it be possible to add more rifles with ACOGs or a similar type of optic for all classes? If you are willing to listen to my demands, err...requests, I would really like to see ACOGs with mounted Docter red dots. They exist in Arma and are extremely versatile. Even if it is not possible to get the CQ sight and Acog, there still is a need for longer range optics of some sort for all infantry classes. Again, excellent missions. You can tell that a lot of work has been put into it and every one seems to enjoy them. Keep up the good work!

~Dirty

**BL1P** · 09-23-2012, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bastard

Hey Blip,

I've really been enjoying playing your patrol ops. I have a request though. Since MSO Patrol Ops contains a variety of missions varying from close quarters combat to long range engagement, would it be possible to add more rifles with ACOGs or a similar type of optic for all classes? If you are willing to listen to my demands, err...requests, I would really like to see ACOGs with mounted Docter red dots. They exist in Arma and are extremely versatile. Even if it is not possible to get the CQ sight and Acog, there still is a need for longer range optics of some sort for all infantry classes. Again, excellent missions. You can tell that a lot of work has been put into it and every one seems to enjoy them. Keep up the good work!

~Dirty

Hi Dirty.

Thanks for the suggestion m8.

It seems this is a very high demand subject for patrol ops as I get asked this maybe once a week or more.
Originally I did have Acogs or optical sights for all classes.
But it became too easy to complete the missions and Myself I felt that all classes basically became a sniper.
So I removed almost all scoped sights for all classes.
Over time I have reintroduced a Recon/Sniper class and gave the grenadiers (of which all squads have two) Acogs.
So basically I have tried and maybe failed to keep classes to what I wanted them to be in the mission but allowed 7 people in the mission to carry scoped weapons.

The main Idea behind the classes is that you cant be a "jack of all trades" and you will need maybe an at guy, a medic , an egineer, a marksman
But an AT guy cant be an AT Medic Marksman.

I realise that what Im doing is restricting players and is probably not very realistic in this day and age as weapon load-outs go.
Though I feel that it does add to the game play of this particular mission.

PS. FTLs get a 4x scoped weapon as well so there are actually about 13 player slots with the ability to carry a scoped weapon.