Re: An alternative to Vet mode

**Jorge.PT** · 07-29-2008, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by FrankManik

I like being able to mark up the map and being able to see where friendlies are at a glance. It's very easy to become separated from your group at night, and rallying up with them can be very difficult when you have no familiar terrain and you can't shout them in.

But if you turn off the "map" you will still be able to check it and place marks I think.

**beita** · 07-29-2008, 02:27 PM

I guess no one read the link ... anyways:

Armor=1; // Gives you improved body armor, tank armor etc

FriendlyTag=1; // Displays information on friendly units. ONLY WORKS WITH 'Weaponcursor=0', eg crosshair on.
EnemyTag=1; // Displays information on enemy units

HUD=1; // Shows you leaders location and your position in formation
HUDPerm=1; // Shows HUD permanently

HUDWp=1; // Shows Waypoints right after they're ordered to you
HUDWpPerm=1; // Shows Waypoints permanently

WeaponCursor=1; // Shows the crosshair for your weapon
AutoAim=1; // Enables auto aim when you're not looking through your weapon's scope. Also works with crosshair off
AutoGuideAT=1; // AT missiles will be automatically guided to their target. If 0, player has to lock onto the target.

3rdPersonView=1; // This turns 3rd(third) person view and group leader view on or off. Please never talk of this as "3D view" - ArmA is not an arcade game !
ClockIndicator=1; // Displays the clock indicator on the left of your screen when giving/receiving orders like "At 11 o'clock, eemy man at 200 meters"
Map=1; // Shows symbols for all objects known to your gruop on the map. This will NOT disable the map itself !
Tracers=1; // Displays tracers even of small arms that in real life would not have tracers

AutoSpot=1; // If you're close enough to an enemy, you'll report it without right-clicking
UltraAI=0; // Enables some kind of super AI that hears and sses more and has better tactics. This is for both friendly and enemy sides.

UnlimitedSaves=1; // Enables saing permanently. For single player missions. But you then can only load the last save state.

DeathMessages=1; // (1.09 and later) Displays "XXX was killed by YYY" messages in multiplayer
NetStats=1; // (1.09 and later) Enables the scoreboard functionality in MP
VonID=1; // (1.09 and later) When using VoN, display the name of the player speaking.

As you can see, Map simply disables the read and green arrows on the map .. you can still see and interact with it. Furthermore, the Armor flag is one of the FIRST things I would turn off in a "Veteran" mode, with it on, you can be shot quite a few times and be fine and dandy ... I happen to like ArmA's brutality.

They are all explained there ....

**jex** · 07-30-2008, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Jorge.PT

But if you turn off the "map" you will still be able to check it and place marks I think.

Yes it just turns off your position and that of the enemies I think. Many times I have looked at the map only to find an enemy displayed on it that nobody knew about.

When we were playing the original GR, TG actually made a mod that disabled our positions, and those of the enemy on the map. Nobody wanted map markers and nobody suffered for it. it seems as though that has changed here.

**beita** · 07-30-2008, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by jex

Yes it just turns off your position and that of the enemies I think. Many times I have looked at the map only to find an enemy displayed on it that nobody knew about.

...

I agree, and yes, I have looked at my map only to somehow "see" that spec ops soldier crawling through a bush 20m behind us. We would have been killed by a well-done flank, but the "map" prevented it. Same thing goes with the Auto-spot. Your avatar simply yells out at random spotting tanks, infantry, aircraft that you had no way of seeing.

With a working VON, there is VERY little need for the default spotting messages, they are clumsy and don't work very well. Keeping the Auto-spot and map marks simply makes the game more forgiving.

If you sit in one spot and shoot for 15 minutes and get killed by someone flanking, that is fine, that's what SHOULD happen. But if you check your map every 30 seconds (when it is enabled, I often do), you can easily "spot" flankers and take them out when the "map" says they will show up.

For the people who want to see themselves on the map, for most missions, you should be in a group anyways and know where you are supposed to be going. For more casual missions like Domination, there are many scripted solutions that place a marker on the map for each player (Domination includes this).

So, if you want to see everyone, turn it on, if not turn it off. This way, you won't have the "magical" map yet you can still have a relaxed mission where you will be able to find each other.

**TheBigC** · 07-30-2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by beita

I guess no one read the link ... anyways:

As you can see, Map simply disables the read and green arrows on the map .. you can still see and interact with it. Furthermore, the Armor flag is one of the FIRST things I would turn off in a "Veteran" mode, with it on, you can be shot quite a few times and be fine and dandy ... I happen to like ArmA's brutality.

They are all explained there ....

Just so you all know.....

Here is what server 2 is set to full time (for cadet mode):

Armor=0;
FriendlyTag=1;
EnemyTag=0;
HUD=1;
HUDPerm=1;
HUDWp=1;
HUDWpPerm=1;
AutoSpot=0;
Map=1;
WeaponCursor=1;
AutoGuideAT=0;
ClockIndicator=1;
3rdPersonView=1;
Tracers=1;
UltraAI=0;
AutoAim=0;
UnlimitedSaves=1;
DeathMessages=0;
NetStats=1;
VonID=1;

For veteran certian things will change like the HUDwp, HUDWpPerm, map, and lastly the skillFriendly, skillEnemy, precisionFriendly, precisionEnemy. (the last couple are not show earlier). But the precision gets altered a bit to favor the enemy AI a bit.

**jex** · 07-30-2008, 01:03 PM

Perhaps someone could do a poll of these settings?

Armor=0; yes/no
FriendlyTag=0;yes/no
EnemyTag=0;yes/no
HUD=0;yes/no
HUDPerm=0;yes/no
HUDWp=0;yes/no
HUDWpPerm=0;yes/no
AutoAim=0;yes/no
AutoGuideAT=0;yes/no
3rdPersonView=0;yes/no
ClockIndicator=0;yes/no
Map=0;yes/no
Tracers=0;yes/no
AutoSpot=0;yes/no
UltraAI=0;yes/no
DeathMessages=0;yes/no
NetStats=0;yes/no
VonID=1;yes/no

can we get a poll that big? I can't do one as I'm not an SM.

**beita** · 08-30-2008, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by jex

Perhaps someone could do a poll of these settings?

Armor=0; yes/no
FriendlyTag=0;yes/no
EnemyTag=0;yes/no
HUD=0;yes/no
HUDPerm=0;yes/no
HUDWp=0;yes/no
HUDWpPerm=0;yes/no
AutoAim=0;yes/no
AutoGuideAT=0;yes/no
3rdPersonView=0;yes/no
ClockIndicator=0;yes/no
Map=0;yes/no
Tracers=0;yes/no
AutoSpot=0;yes/no
UltraAI=0;yes/no
DeathMessages=0;yes/no
NetStats=0;yes/no
VonID=1;yes/no

can we get a poll that big? I can't do one as I'm not an SM.

Bumping this thread as it came up again a few times recently. You missed "WeaponCursor=1;", so I added it in.

Remember, 0 is off, 1 is on.

My vote:

For Cadet:

Armor=0;
FriendlyTag=1;
EnemyTag=0;
HUD=0;
HUDPerm=0;
HUDWp=0;
HUDWpPerm=0;
WeaponCursor=1;
AutoAim=0;
AutoGuideAT=0;
3rdPersonView=0;
ClockIndicator=0;
Map=0;
Tracers=0;
AutoSpot=0;
UltraAI=0;
DeathMessages=0;
NetStats=0;
VonID=1;

For Veteran:

Armor=0;
FriendlyTag=0;
EnemyTag=0;
HUD=0;
HUDPerm=0;
HUDWp=0;
HUDWpPerm=0;
WeaponCursor=0;
AutoAim=0;
AutoGuideAT=0;
3rdPersonView=0;
ClockIndicator=0;
Map=0;
Tracers=0;
AutoSpot=0;
UltraAI=0;
DeathMessages=0;
NetStats=0;
VonID=1;

**fuzzhead** · 09-01-2008, 10:03 PM

agree with beta, esp veteran mode... just keep everything off but keep the VoN ID on, so you can see what twat is talking on side channel constantly hehe

veteran mode is reaalllly fun to play, advise everyone to try it sometime

**Long Bow** · 09-02-2008, 10:08 AM

I don't know what each setting does however I would tend to agree that a veteran mode with name tags for VON would be great. That is my biggest problem with Vet mode, figuring out who is who (considering in real life I would have worked with these people for more time and be familiar with their faces, voice etc.)

As long as I have a GPS I don't mind the lack of players on maps

I hate the constant autospotting, it clutters comms and cheats for you on occasion.

Those are my 1's and 0's for ya.

**TheBigC** · 09-02-2008, 10:17 AM

The ones that will not change are NetStats, VONID and Friendly tag for Cadet mode. The only one that might drop from that list is Friendly tag for Veteran Mode. The rest are up for debate on the server. The one I see as a contentious issue will be the 3rd person view, we have had several discussion threads about that one and people enjoy that option for flying. I am also kinda surprised how people want the HUD (Weapon Cursor) removed, if that is what people want that may be possible.

I can take most the recommendations and put them into a Event to try out if people like. I would hate to make permanent changes that people do not realize that the effects of until they try it.

**beita** · 10-28-2008, 12:22 PM

Another bump.

Came up again in game, very noticeable in TvT.

Remember, 0 is off, 1 is on.

My vote:

For Cadet:

Armor=0;
FriendlyTag=1;
EnemyTag=0;
HUD=0;
HUDPerm=0;
HUDWp=0;
HUDWpPerm=0;
WeaponCursor=1;
AutoAim=0;
AutoGuideAT=0;
3rdPersonView=0;
ClockIndicator=0;
Map=0;
Tracers=0;
AutoSpot=0;
UltraAI=0;
DeathMessages=0;
NetStats=0;
VonID=1;

For Veteran:

Armor=0;
FriendlyTag=0;
EnemyTag=0;
HUD=0;
HUDPerm=0;
HUDWp=0;
HUDWpPerm=0;
WeaponCursor=0;
AutoAim=0;
AutoGuideAT=0;
3rdPersonView=0;
ClockIndicator=0;
Map=0;
Tracers=0;
AutoSpot=0;
UltraAI=0;
DeathMessages=0;
NetStats=0;
VonID=1;

Still have the same opinion.

At the bare minimum, VonID needs to go ON and kill messages need to go OFF (why are they on for Veteran but NOT Cadet?!) for Veteran Mode, so if we do want to play some TvT, we don't have to deal with the map markers and kill messages, but mass chaos won't ensue when new people don't know who is talking to who in what channel etc.

It's come to the point where it is really starting to ruin TvT, as a lot of people are just staring at the map and finding the enemy in the middle of the woods that way. It works far too well.

The kill messages on Veteran are almost as bad, removes the whole uncertainty of battle. I think this combined with the no VON ID makes Veteran unplayable compared to Cadet for TvT.

**Sam Hoy** · 10-28-2008, 02:02 PM

Auto map spotting and kill messages need to go especially for veteran mode. I'm still not understanding the keeping of the VONIDs in vet mode though. Is there some confusion when we play with it now? Yes quite a bit it seems, but thats because we so rarely play vet mode (which I don't really understand). Most people just aren't use to it and don't understand the implications of vet mode, such as having to use land navigation and having to ID yourself on comms. Would playing vet mode with no VONIDs cause conflicts? Of course, initially, however, in my mind the problem sorts itself out over a brief period of time. It just takes some adjustment which players haven't had yet because it is so rarely played.

**Blackdog1** · 10-28-2008, 02:40 PM

We are trying to introduce so many new things on players and what is expected of them comms wise, etc etc etc. Therefore where some of us have quite unique accents and therefore easy to tell who is speaking, many who forget to use proper comms technique simply broadcast and we waste sooooooo much time currently asking said player to identify themselves. So it is easier to simply leave the VONid on, I personally dont think it detracts from the game at all and helps speed things up. It also helps enforce TG SOP's as some comments can be made and if no one recognises the voice, out of order comments can go unpunished.

Much of the comms issue has become very anal recently and is really starting to annoy me with all the moaning and complaining that is going on.

Let's not take oursevles too seriously here. We have standards and we have rules at TG, but this is also meant to be recreation not some long drawn out ordeal where people feel they have to give up command roles because it just gets "too much".

So let's have less whining about what we dont have people and start enjoying again what we DO have.

**fuzzhead** · 10-28-2008, 02:45 PM

Please turn the auto spotting map markers off, it ruins TvT. As well, the third person in TvT is really dumb, its basically a way to cheat, both on foot as infantry and in a tank/vehicle.

Those are the 2 options I think really need to be changed. I think someone should make a poll

**MrPerea** · 10-28-2008, 06:03 PM

Hopefully this doesn't sound like a whine about fairness, but I think one of the reasons blufor got hit so hard in the hills last night, was due to the fact that third person was enabled.

The fact that third person was enabled, allowed people ambush our squad much easier with one person vs 4 or 5.

One reason I say this is because as our squad was about to go over a hill I saw a machine gunner looking at us and watching us over a ridge line. How did I find him? Because I was in third person as well, and I suddenly spotted him.
I know me and that one machine gunner were not the only ones in third person frequently to gain more situational awareness.

I am really hoping no more TvT maps will play with it enabled, it just seems to ruin the game in my opinion. Why peek around the corner or a ridge when you can use third person and not risk exposing your self? Or why turn out of your vehicle to get a better view and risk exposing your self, when you can go into third person, and get a much broader view.

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