Sunday Event - Operation Black Falcon - Page 2

Angryson · 03-31-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost02

Remember one thing about comms, the leaders are on a seperate TS channel so I'll gave most of my orders to your SL's who are supposed to interprite and relay the information to you guys. Therefore, you hear little of me and comms are clean. Also,Angryson you got hit by a VBIED, it killed me also. One very important thing, you guys have GOT TO MOVE! I consistantly had to push units to continue movement and not get into drawn out gunfights, rational? The enemy converges on your position like bees to honey. The battle was not as fluid as planned, I hoped the battle would be a movement battle and that is why I forbade moving onto rooftops, because then you are in a static bloodbath. Go watch BHD , why did that happen [aside from helos] The soldiers got into a static fight which the US is not good at. A main tenet in US doctrine is violence of action/fluidity. Go is FAST and HARD! We went in rather slow and hard. Speed is life. Also, making the commander push units makes the plt be at the front which is not a good place to be.

As commander part of your job it to coordinated movement and fires between your subordinates. You don't need to be the point man, and you don't need to be firing, your sole purpose in life is to manage the chaos and issue orders. Now I know this isn't all your fault, you didn't have enough time to plan and you cannot be held responsible for your plan not being disseminated properly.

About BHD. I am sure you are not trying to cite a movie as a reference point in order to explain tactical doctrine. I am sure what you meant to say was something like, in an asymmetric environment it is suicidal to set patterns, grow complacent and forget the basics such as PCIs/PCCs.

Blackdog The lack of planning time makes sense if you were trying to simulate jumping out of your *** on a QRF mission. I like that idea, but I agree with WaterIsPoison that you should communicate that intent clearly before hand. Maybe it is something you could post on the sign-up page? The only flaw I see in rational for the lack of planning is, in the .mil if you get into a combat situation where you only have 15 minutes to plan and execute, chances are, the guys doing the planning have been trained for a situation like that and are pretty good at it. And even it they are not good at it, i.e. just because your PL can't plan his way out of a paper sack, it doesn't mean your PSG and SLs can't, someone in the chain will pick up the slack. I think that is something that is going to be difficult to simulate. Either way, I still had fun and I think it is really cool that we are having an AAR so that we can improve an already great thing.

LCpl. Soto · 03-31-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angryson

As commander part of your job it to coordinated movement and fires between your subordinates. You don't need to be the point man, and you don't need to be firing, your sole purpose in life is to manage the chaos and issue orders. Now I know this isn't all your fault, you didn't have enough time to plan and you cannot be held responsible for your plan not being disseminated properly.

About BHD. I am sure you are not trying to cite a movie as a reference point in order to explain tactical doctrine. I am sure what you meant to say was something like, in an asymmetric environment it is suicidal to set patterns, grow complacent and forget the basics such as PCIs/PCCs.

Blackdog The lack of planning time makes sense if you were trying to simulate jumping out of your *** on a QRF mission. I like that idea, but I agree with WaterIsPoison that you should communicate that intent clearly before hand. Maybe it is something you could post on the sign-up page? The only flaw I see in rational for the lack of planning is, in the .mil if you get into a combat situation where you only have 15 minutes to plan and execute, chances are, the guys doing the planning have been trained for a situation like that and are pretty good at it. And even it they are not good at it, i.e. just because your PL can't plan his way out of a paper sack, it doesn't mean your PSG and SLs can't, someone in the chain will pick up the slack. I think that is something that is going to be difficult to simulate. Either way, I still had fun and I think it is really cool that we are having an AAR so that we can improve an already great thing.

Ghost02 was rushed and he is new and has probably had 0 training on tactical combat so leading a plt would be difficult, especially not being given the time to plan. As for him not being responsible for telling everyone what plan he came up with during the time he was given, he is responsible, that is his purpose in a mision as op commander. Just something to remember is all, honestly the Op Commander shouldn't even fire one shot because he is trying to keep his people in order and focused on the obj. As for him reffering to BHD, that was based on a real life event. I just think he miss understood the real reason why they got into that mess (in my opinion). As for expecting guys that have had no training, both in game and real life, to quickly plan and execute a mission is bound to have issues. I agree with WateerIsPoison about having everything sorted out ahead of time, even if it's only the plt commander and squad leaders. I think it would be a great idea to have a sunday event here and there where we go over some basics. Once people have a better understanding of things, missions will run smoother and then we could do quick reaction missions. I and I'm sure others would be willing to help out with training, though I can only do it on the weekends.

Angryson · 03-31-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LCpl. Soto

Ghost02 was rushed and he is new and has probably had 0 training on tactical combat so leading a plt would be difficult, especially not being given the time to plan. As for him not being responsible for telling everyone what plan he came up with during the time he was given, he is responsible, that is his purpose in a mision as op commander. Just something to remember is all, honestly the Op Commander shouldn't even fire one shot because he is trying to keep his people in order and focused on the obj. As for him reffering to BHD, that was based on a real life event. I just think he miss understood the real reason why they got into that mess (in my opinion). As for expecting guys that have had no training, both in game and real life, to quickly plan and execute a mission is bound to have issues. I agree with WateerIsPoison about having everything sorted out ahead of time, even if it's only the plt commander and squad leaders. I think it would be a great idea to have a sunday event here and there where we go over some basics. Once people have a better understanding of things, missions will run smoother and then we could do quick reaction missions. I and I'm sure others would be willing to help out with training, though I can only do it on the weekends.

Trust me, I agree man, I think Ghost did the best he could under the circumstances. I wasn't trying to be to hard on him. After all, the end state of this is to have fun, right? I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying about BHD. I am fully aware of what happened on 03 OCT 93. Take what I said here in the context:

Quote:

I am sure what you meant to say was something like, in an asymmetric environment it is suicidal to set patterns, grow complacent and forget the basics such as PCIs/PCCs.

I found that to be a little bit more relevant to what happened in Somolia rather blaming it on "getting into a static fight"

I to would be willing to help train others, that is already my full time job. Unfortunately I have limited ArmA experience, but I have plenty of RL .mil experience to balance it out.

LCpl. Soto · 03-31-2009, 01:52 PM

Didn't mean to sound like I thought you were being hard on him Angryson, just wanted to show I understood he is new but still wanted to give some advice without sounding condescending (a skill I am lacking, sorry guys if I sound rude when I express opinions). I also miss understood the BHD comment you made so thanks for the clarification.

**Blackdog1** · 03-31-2009, 02:10 PM

With regards Training....it is in hand and some of you will be invited to help with some of our up and coming plans!

Angryson · 03-31-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LCpl. Soto

Didn't mean to sound like I thought you were being hard on him Angryson, just wanted to show I understood he is new but still wanted to give some advice without sounding condescending (a skill I am lacking, sorry guys if I sound rude when I express opinions). I also miss understood the BHD comment you made so thanks for the clarification.

No problem man, I tend to come off a little abrasive sometimes too.

JohnO · 03-31-2009, 03:14 PM

Ghost02 or anybody else I have the current updated copy of FM-3-21.8 Mar 2007 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad, which replaces FM 7-8 and it is approved for public released, distribution is unlimited.

Let me know if there is any interest in it and will set something up on my FTP site so that players can download it.

If you do want it, look on Chapter 5, Command, Control, and Troop Leading Procedures, Section II and Section III as a start.

Use METT-TC all the time, it will help.

Angryson and Igor you get your own copy

Angryson · 03-31-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnO

Ghost02 or anybody else I have the current updated copy of FM-3-21.8 Mar 2007 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad, which replaces FM 7-8 and it is approved for public released, distribution is unlimited.

Let me know if there is any interest in it and will set something up on my FTP site so that players can download it.

If you do want it, look on Chapter 5, Command, Control, and Troop Leading Procedures, Section II and Section III as a start.

Use METT-TC all the time, it will help.

Angryson and Igor you get your own copy

Man, that's my bible, lol

I have to admit, I got a little teary eyed when they took away my battle drills.

Dslyecxi · 03-31-2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnO

Let me know if there is any interest in it and will set something up on my FTP site so that players can download it.

Here it is:
FM 3-21.8

If you have a version that is a single PDF, that'd be neat to see. This one is multi-PDF, but it links between them fluidly, so it's not really an issue.

JohnO · 03-31-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dslyecxi

Here it is:
FM 3-21.8

If you have a version that is a single PDF, that'd be neat to see. This one is multi-PDF, but it links between them fluidly, so it's not really an issue.

yes, I do have the single pdf.

Ghost02 · 03-31-2009, 08:38 PM

Nobody was to harsh on me.... Anyway, some good tips and good AAR's I know how I am going to knit together a plan for the next mission. I need all the constructive critisicism I can get, its the only way to get better. On the BHD comment, in the book, after the first helo goes down the commander says that they are in a losing battle because of the lack of fluidity they now faced, sorry for not being clear on that.