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Armed Assault - After Action Reports After Action Reports (AARs) for Armed Assault

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Old 08-31-2009, 08:38 AM   #31 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Wow, looks like you guys had a great event once again

I apologize for being a no-show. I had some technical issues, aka a PSU that almost caught fire, that took too long to solve to make it.
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:41 AM   #32 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Ah well ghost, your not alone, looks like i got cut outta the photo as well
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:43 AM   #33 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Didn't get a shot of everyone's final scoreboard, but here's my final score board. 22/3 (not counting 2 deaths from Ishkode's FF!)

Not bad for a grunt if I do say so myself

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Old 08-31-2009, 12:05 PM   #34 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

I think one moment that will stick out for me, Playing a RECON grenadier who really had the duty of lighting up the battlefied for the MG's and snipers. after about half way through, and getting the feeling that this is all I am going to do is launch Flares all mission, and kinda feeling sorry for myself, I looked behind me, only to find my SL Grunt, standing there with a load of flares for me. Kinda like what I was doing did matter and that if the "GRUNT" work was good enough for the SL then it was good enough for me.. Not many Games can keep you as involved as ARMA when you are doing your little part to accomplish the goal...
My Final Score: 0 - Injured once.. I went through 1 clip of ammo...and approx. 100 white flares (and 3 Red ones given to me by a sniper..) ... It's about the team...

Nice work..
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:26 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Also guys, if you have any videos you would like TG to use in a video for tonights event, feel free to shoot us a link in the CAA forum. All is appreciated!
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:32 PM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

I'm with ya, Peardog. As an assistant gunner to one of the heavy machineguns I spent a lot of my time running back and forth to the ammo dump to fetch more rounds for the M2 that was going hot all the way through the mission.

The scripts to make the assistant gunner more involved in the loading and dismantling of the heavy machine gun was awesome. I got some opportunities to empty a few magazines with my M16 as some enemies tried to attack our hill, and when we went down to take back LZ Echo, but most of the time I just loaded the M2 when needed and made use of my boots.

Still one of the best experiences I've had in my 8 year history of OFP, ArmA and ArmA2.
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:44 PM   #37 (permalink)

 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

So the purpose of the AAR thread is to give each other a pad on the back but also to highlight some tactical problems (if there were any) so that people can improve their game. It doesn't really seem to happen here so people aren't improving much (except boosting their ego). My point is that from my perspective (fireteam leader) there seemed to be a number of things that could be improved. I will try and give some examples below.

My squad leader was Chalcas, he seemed to have some problems. It sounded like a lot of unnecessary things were being said in the command channel and this made it hard for him to get through with request and reports. For example he had to ask 3 times before someone did anything about bringing his dead squad members to the front (he said he had asked 3 times). I am guessing this was due to other communications in the command channel. But when an infantry leader can't get through to his support units/commander someone have the wrong priorities.

Our support fires left something to be desired. I do not know what or who is to blame but 200-300 meters off target (happened multiple times) don't seem very accurate to me. If this was due to bad spotting, miscommunication or bad targeting of the arty and helicopters I wont guess, I will leave that to the people involved in the operation of the support assets. What I can say that the accuracy was far worse then usual when getting artillery and air support so there must have been something that went wrong.

On the plus side I would say the briefing before the round was top notch the same with the document. I am wondering why it wasn't distributed to every member of the team since people are more efficient when they know their job. I know it was only done the day before so you haven't really had time to send it around but think that a general briefing is better.

There was good illumination for most of the round but people had a tendency to shoot the flares (m203) infront of the line which is a bad move since it will blind people. On multiple occasions I had to stop shooting because I couldn't see anything.

Overall it was fun but there is room for improvement. Thanks for setting up the mission and taking the time organising all of it. Had good fun but would still like to see more discussions on where improvements could be made instead of people just padding each other on the back. Thanks to Chalcas the rest of bravo squad for a good round where the spirits were high and a good vibe in squad. Really enjoyed playing with you guys.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:18 PM   #38 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katanama View Post
So the purpose of the AAR thread is to give each other a pad on the back but also to highlight some tactical problems (if there were any) so that people can improve their game. It doesn't really seem to happen here so people aren't improving much (except boosting their ego). My point is that from my perspective (fireteam leader) there seemed to be a number of things that could be improved. I will try and give some examples below.
Easy there bud...
first off, I'm not saying that you shouldn't highlight things that went wrong, offcourse that should also be included in the AARs so we can learn from it.

But the tone you put it, is quite harsh... read the thread again, the only "back padding" going on is a handfull of posts towards some of the nice screenshots, then another handfull of people posting their good experience with the game and the rest of people saying the wished they could have been there.

Have you considered that despite the problems your squad had, the other squads did not have such problems?
From my point of view everything ran like clockwork, with the exception of 2 moments, one where our TL died and one of us had to crawl to an lz for a medic tent, and one where we had a medic from another squad coming to us and was unable to find us off the bat (largely due to us taking fire at the time he was looking for us). But, that's "war" for you, no plan survives intact.

Offcourse we should strive to better these things, but "accusing" people, who had a genuinly good time in what was argueably one of the most immersive, planned and executed missions with this number of people we have played in recent weeks,of just padding eachother on the back is just harsh imho...
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Quote:
What I can say that the accuracy was far worse then usual when getting artillery and air support so there must have been something that went wrong.
In response to that when your asked for a 4 round arty mission unless its said otherwise the standard is to spread the 4 rounds. Not land all the rounds on one point, which would serve no purpose. Only once during my arty firing was i told to add an extra wide spread on a large fire mission. I have allready taken responsibility (several times) for the fire mission which resulted in TK's because no one communicated to me (untill afterwords) that it had to be a pin point strike, and even then my recticle was off by about 2mm, which is good considering, the arty aiming system.


And the term is "Pat on the back"
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

This was war and things dont run as planned all the way through, you change you adapt and try to survive. Comms get hectic and garbled and buggered up. Mistakes are made, there is friendly fire kias but in the end if you survived it was a great day.When the day was over we sat and talked like this, congratulating each other on surviving. If that is patting each other on the back..so be it. As a PBR skipper River Rat in in the Mekong Delta, Vietnam Vet.... I know wtf I'm talking about.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Let me give you some feedback on some of those points, as much you wont have been aware of.

Quote:
My squad leader was Chalcas, he seemed to have some problems. It sounded like a lot of unnecessary things were being said in the command channel and this made it hard for him to get through with request and reports. For example he had to ask 3 times before someone did anything about bringing his dead squad members to the front (he said he had asked 3 times). I am guessing this was due to other communications in the command channel. But when an infantry leader can't get through to his support units/commander someone have the wrong priorities.
What exactly would you consider "unneccesary?" When the requst for reinforcements came in, it was early in the battle and certain lines of communication were frantic, I'll give you an example...in just one minute, Command had the following;
A request from Chalcas for reinfrocements,
A request from bravo for a Medic,
Recce giving target details,
heavy Weapons Team advising of an inbound enemy squad to bravo's position,
Air team advising they are standing by and ready to provide CAS,
Artillery requesting information on the artillery markers and target verification and ....
requests from the PLT SGT and a MEDIC constantly asking where he needed to be....followed up by the 2nd request for reinforcements....

Bear in mind ALL of this happened in a 60 second period...I kid you not... Not one of those requests was unneccessary...each squad has it's own priority and each squad feels their radio broadcast is just as important as the next...but wha people HAVE to remember, is that there is just ONE commander, who has to take in all this information and give orders in reaction, in order to keep a grip and control on battle, otherwise things get out of hand very quickly...

Back to the point in question....
Command put in 2 requests for the reinforcements to be picked up. (bearing in mind that the air lead was doing a superb job under difficult personal circumstances) it was on the third request that Command actually chased down the reinforcements to find out where they were, sensing something was wrong. As a point of note, No one from the downed squads was feeding information back to their SL that they were at FB Falcon and not the main base, which is where Command thought they were...once that was sorted...the ferrry flights began on a regular basis.

Quote:
Our support fires left something to be desired. I do not know what or who is to blame but 200-300 meters off target (happened multiple times) don't seem very accurate to me.
Yes we had a couple of incidents where we may have had some learning mistakes made by people not used to doing certain roles. Remember, they did not pick their role, it was chosen for them. However the majority of fire missions were pretty much where I wanted them.

Quote:
On the plus side I would say the briefing before the round was top notch the same with the document. I am wondering why it wasn't distributed to every member of the team since people are more efficient when they know their job. I know it was only done the day before so you haven't really had time to send it around but think that a general briefing is better.
Your data is not quite accurate here. The briefing was NOT done the day before the event, it was merely issued the day before the event. That was CO's choice and done for a reason. As to why it was not distributed? The Squad Leaders were issued with their orders! Do you know of a single military unit in the world where the mission commander sends a briefing document to every man in every unit? No....I did this again by design...I wanted immersion in the mission, where the Grunts HAD to rely on their SL's to issue appropriate orders to tell them when and where they needed to be.
Had I issued everyone with the briefing, it would have taken the surprise of the plan, the surprise of the position selected for the grunts, out of the window. Again....all done for effect and the effect was exactly as I wanted. Is that a point for improvement....not at all as I would do that aspect of the mission planning exactly the same way again.

As to commands perspective of things that might have been better....

The primary issue was FF incidents and I learned that in ArmA2 is it pretty hard to make an exact mark on the map for arty to hit on that mark. A classic example was my Arty4 marker, North West of Alpha's position. I had to confirm 4 times with Alpha lead that my mark was good and where they wanted the fire mission? Unfortunately as soon as the first rounds came in.... Alpha were anialated... the fire mission was immediately stopped.
So what I personally learned from that is that I had to give a MUCH wider margin for error for later fire missions....
Soupy is SPOT on in this as I did not specify spread.. that was my bad and a lesson learned personally. I dont put blame anywhere for this, it was simply a learning excercise...

With regards CAS... we had some comms issues with Air and understandably so, but again after an errant fire mission, I knew that I had to give VERY clear instructions using visual confirmation as well as grid references/map marks as to where I wanted the Hydras.... This meant me confirming several times.. "Rockets in the treeline NOT the OPEN"... again when it worked, it worked beautifully. I had an entire enemy squad destroyed to our south with a real danger close fire support mission toward the end near LZ Echo...

As to positioning.... again...by only going off map details, it was hard to to know exactly how much room we had in the LZ, how steep the hill was etc. In hindsight, I think I would have made defensive positions A LOT tighter in a BOX formation, this would have given me more freedom with my fire missions, as the firendlies would have been in a very tight area. The only issue with this style of defense is the increased risk from enemy GP25 or Arty rounds, destroying more squad members due to tighter bunching...

At the end of the day...the mission was great fun...and HAD NEVER BEEN BEATEN...

We beat it... and I was very impressed with all my Squad Leaders.

For the record, I personally HATE using TS for large scale missions, it does an ok job, but in NO way shape or form does it replace VON and the comms would have been infinitely cleaner in VON.... but... I agree that every mission always has room for improvement, however just because you are not privy to certain information, that may not neccessarily be an area for improvement but a personal choice for the CO...
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:10 PM   #42 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Here are the maps created for the briefing document:

http://www.4shared.com/file/12914295...perations.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/12914276.../LZ_X-Ray.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/12914295...Insertion.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/12914296...ormations.html

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Old 08-31-2009, 05:54 PM   #43 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Before reading the following remember that I wasn't there and thus base my knowledge of the events on your AARs, but here's a few words on artillery:

Artillery is an area weapon. Judging by the AARs in this thread and my own experiences on the server we are too used to artillery being pinpoint accurate, always on target. In A2 it most of the time actually is just that. It is usually way too accurate ingame. Now that you guys actually had artillery miss the intended target, something one should expect to happen from time to time, you immediately experienced casualties because you were used to the Arma2 safety margins. It happens in real life with much bigger margins, so hell yeah it can happen in A2 with sometimes ridiculously small margins. Now mortars, those are completely different beasts. Especially the 81 or 82mms are ridiculously accurate, and they'll normally have to introduce some dispersion on purpose to get more coverage for the fire.

I'll try to find some exact figures for you, but here's one I remember right now: The smallest possible margin we have for 122mm artillery is 150m. The conditions for that are:
  • The same unit has already fired with 1500 meters of the target and you have observed and corrected their fire.
  • Weather hasn't changed much, so that the above correction still applies
  • The artillery unit is shooting almost directly from either side in regard to how friendly forces are situated near the target. This is because their margin of error is considerably bigger lengthwise vs. sideways.
  • Range from arty unit to target is less than 9 kilometers.

Btw, nice briefing BD
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:00 PM   #44 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

@ Fincuan
On mortars: They are as accurate as the mission-makers make them. The dispersion is adjustable through scripts in the mission.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:03 PM   #45 (permalink)
 
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Re: AAR- Sunday Sign up 30/08/2009

Nothing wrong with mortar accuracy ingame. They're very accurate in both real life and ingame, just as they should be. Artillery is something that would need some dispersion via the arty-module. In my yet unpublished arty-scriptpack I have it at 300(value passed to BIS_ARTY_F_SetDispersion) for the M119. That value gave a pretty realistic coverage.
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