Official Street Lights and Power Stations Thread

[ANGELofDEATH]

Originally Posted by Gillespie

Exactly. For the number of players we usually have on (8 - 10 is the highest I've seen in the past few weeks), TvT can be terribly boring given the size of most TvT maps we have loaded onto the server.

That is because most TvT become snipe fest. No one wants to die and the easiest way to stay alive is to hide. and hiding at distance with a huge scoped weapon is the easiest way to survive TvT missions. IMO, the easiest way to counter the multitude of snipers is with armor. Then again, scripting the mission so the snipers are limited would be the easiest way to get players into the fight. (In BF, when a team gets capped out, the last players to die on the loosing team are always the lonewolf snipers who have no intention of playing as a team)

It always annoys me when game devs dont script in destroyable light sources when NVGs are in the game. Right now the only way to take out the lights reliably is to run them down with a tank or heavy vehicle, when a single bullet should do the job.

[Gillespie]

Originally Posted by ANGELofDEATH

It always annoys me when game devs dont script in destroyable light sources when NVGs are in the game. Right now the only way to take out the lights reliably is to run them down with a tank or heavy vehicle, when a single bullet should do the job.

LOL. Cracking eggs with a sledgehammer, basically. ;P

[mingmong]

Originally Posted by ANGELofDEATH

That is because most TvT become snipe fest. No one wants to die and the easiest way to stay alive is to hide. and hiding at distance with a huge scoped weapon is the easiest way to survive TvT missions. IMO, the easiest way to counter the multitude of snipers is with armor. Then again, scripting the mission so the snipers are limited would be the easiest way to get players into the fight. (In BF, when a team gets capped out, the last players to die on the loosing team are always the lonewolf snipers who have no intention of playing as a team)

The easiest way to counter a multitude of snipers is with better mission design. Failing that, find new people to play with. TvT is no more an inherent snipe fest than coop is when you're got 5 smacktards and a crate stacked with M24s at the start of the mission.

[stickyjeans69]

Originally Posted by ANGELofDEATH

That is because most TvT become snipe fest. No one wants to die and the easiest way to stay alive is to hide. and hiding at distance with a huge scoped weapon is the easiest way to survive TvT missions. IMO, the easiest way to counter the multitude of snipers is with armor. Then again, scripting the mission so the snipers are limited would be the easiest way to get players into the fight. (In BF, when a team gets capped out, the last players to die on the loosing team are always the lonewolf snipers who have no intention of playing as a team)

It always annoys me when game devs dont script in destroyable light sources when NVGs are in the game. Right now the only way to take out the lights reliably is to run them down with a tank or heavy vehicle, when a single bullet should do the job.

very simple fix to this. DONT PUT SCOPED WEAPONS IN A TvT. problem fixed, join your squads and have fun. either way though i suppose it turns into a "Snipe fest on the squad level". but many modern engagements even in real war are at Distance these days. unless you're inside a large city or a thick jungle type area i suppose.

there's a few things that have to be accomplished

you need the right people.
something TG arma is lacking right now. the level of coordination/teamwork isn't good enough for a TvT. that makes me considerably dissapointed considering TG's quite long track record.

you need a mission designed to be TvT.
TvT's need to be well designed, they MUST lack scoped weapons, and generally need to have a very simple layout that's similar on both sides. any imbalances are made up for by a Size imbalance eg. Blufor attacking has 20 players Opfor defending has 12 players since there are similar weapon loadouts. that aspect is fixed, however since Opfor is defending a certain Point, they will likely take less casualtys due to better positions around the given location-whereas Blufor will be moving and alot less protected.

[tHa_KhAn]

Originally Posted by stickyjeans69

very simple fix to this. DONT PUT SCOPED WEAPONS IN A TvT. problem fixed, join your squads and have fun. either way though i suppose it turns into a "Snipe fest on the squad level". but many modern engagements even in real war are at Distance these days. unless you're inside a large city or a thick jungle type area i suppose.

there's a few things that have to be accomplished

you need the right people.
something TG arma is lacking right now. the level of coordination/teamwork isn't good enough for a TvT. that makes me considerably dissapointed considering TG's quite long track record.

you need a mission designed to be TvT.
TvT's need to be well designed, they MUST lack scoped weapons, and generally need to have a very simple layout that's similar on both sides. any imbalances are made up for by a Size imbalance eg. Blufor attacking has 20 players Opfor defending has 12 players since there are similar weapon loadouts. that aspect is fixed, however since Opfor is defending a certain Point, they will likely take less casualtys due to better positions around the given location-whereas Blufor will be moving and alot less protected.

While I agree with you on the first part, the rest may be your opinion, but I think you missed something. Shiner did a poll and at least half of the community prefers COOP to TvT. Maybe that is just from the unorganized experiences, but I know some have played in other communities and have more experience. Even in my ShackTac experiences, I prefer COOP to all but the most well organized TvT. That's my preference and not a negative to my ability to use teamwork.

Again, mission design here is a reflection of those involved desires. If a mission creator likes small COOPs, then they like small COOPs. If they like persistent battle missions then that is what they focus on. Not everyone sees TvT as the grand experience and therefore not as much effort is placed on development for missions especially when Shiner's TG Domination should meet the TvT requirements of the commuity. TG has always been a casual community with focus on tactical gaming. It's not as rigorous as other communities and it shows with the preference of mission types.

Back to the original topic, I would really like to see the light script implemented in any TvT. I think it adds a significant level of immersion that would benefit any experience.

[stickyjeans69]

I never argued the census on TvT, vs Coop. Simply stated that TG for the time being lacks the Ability to play a TvT with Squad members following their Fireteam leaders, and Fireteam Leaders following their Squad leaders, then squad leaders communicating with their Platoon Commander.

I've honestly found the same recently in the 2 Small Coop's i played here (not evo or dom) Fierce dogs and one other.

So the arguement isnt what TG wants to play. it's how TG wants to play. something i'm not going to work to change because if i did, it would be a lost cause from the start.

[loyalguard]

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

Back to the original topic, I would really like to see the light script implemented in any TvT. I think it adds a significant level of immersion that would benefit any experience.

I've only recently gotten into scripting and have several other projects in the works...but as Dslyecxi said way above it shouldn't be too hard to script. I will try working on a script that can be used by any mission maker to achieve the desired effect.

[tHa_KhAn]

Originally Posted by stickyjeans69

I never argued the census on TvT, vs Coop. Simply stated that TG for the time being lacks the Ability to play a TvT with Squad members following their Fireteam leaders, and Fireteam Leaders following their Squad leaders, then squad leaders communicating with their Platoon Commander.

I've honestly found the same recently in the 2 Small Coop's i played here (not evo or dom) Fierce dogs and one other.

So the arguement isnt what TG wants to play. it's how TG wants to play. something i'm not going to work to change because if i did, it would be a lost cause from the start.

I don't know who you played with, but you shouldn't make such a blanket statement. We operate on those levels all the time when necessary or desired. I'm not going to say every player is an expert, but much of the time it comes down to the leadership in the mission. Not everyone is a great leader or willing to step up. In all my experience when myself or someone does move into a leadership role, we have no problem getting the level of organization needed. Not all missions require strict organization down to the fireteam level. When they do it works. The point of mentioning what TG wants to play was that TvT requires more organization to reach potential than a COOP. That does affect how people treat a pub night on the server.

We're an open community so I can't say everyone is a great team player and I know there are many that just hop in the forums grab the password and do their own thing. If you find specific players being anti cooperative feel free to report them via PM. Not everyone has played in a hardcore COOP and has no idea how to behave. Try to educate those that seem lost to you, ask them if the understand your goals as opposed to suggesting that they just blindly do something. With all the new members that come through it is hard to play with everyone and get everyone in on a solid game with good leadership.


@Loyal,

Even in COOP, it's an interesting affect and would benefit the players with NVG so I definitely think it is a worthwhile effort. I wonder if than can include individual lights or just disabling the power. The power would probably be easiest as it is just a single event.

[loyalguard]

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

@Loyal,

Even in COOP, it's an interesting affect and would benefit the players with NVG so I definitely think it is a worthwhile effort. I wonder if than can include individual lights or just disabling the power. The power would probably be easiest as it is just a single event.

I agree it would also be fun in coop...I am going to try to make it simple enough to add into any mission, the mission maker just has to decide which cities/power stations they want affected.

As far whether it would include individual lights or the power, I don't believe the power stations are in any way in-game logically connected to the lights in the cities. But I can "connect" (or more appropriately "disconnect" them with a script.

My basic idea is: When a specific power station is destroyed it triggers all lampposts and traffic lights within a given radius (using the nearestObjects command and filtered by object type) to turn off using the switchLight command. I haven't tried this yet, its just my basic game plan after doing some reseatch in the ArmA command reference.

[tHa_KhAn]

Originally Posted by loyalguard

I agree it would also be fun in coop...I am going to try to make it simple enough to add into any mission, the mission maker just has to decide which cities/power stations they want affected.

As far whether it would include individual lights or the power, I don't believe the power stations are in any way in-game logically connected to the lights in the cities. But I can "connect" (or more appropriately "disconnect" them with a script.

My basic idea is: When a specific power station is destroyed it triggers all lampposts and traffic lights within a given radius (using the nearestObjects command and filtered by object type) to turn off using the switchLight command. I haven't tried this yet, its just my basic game plan after doing some reseatch in the ArmA command reference.

The logic looks good. While being able to "silently" take out individual lights may be advantageous under certain scenarios, I'll take the big boom and lights out effect over nothing. I really liked the "Thief" series with water tipped arrows to put out torches. Great effect for the game.

[jex]

I think anything in a mission that adds realism to it is always a good thing. LightOut scripts should be put in every map and I'd like to see the AI's skill level drop a little to reflect the fact that they don't have lights anymore.

[loyalguard]

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

The logic looks good. While being able to "silently" take out individual lights may be advantageous under certain scenarios...

Ohhh, I see what you mean...indeed! This could be done as well. Instead of satchels blowing the station to trigger the blackout, you could just have the trigger be activated by a option in the action menu that becomes accessible when you are in close proximity to the power station...I can look at this option as well!

EDIT:

Actually, I already found code to do exactly this in the OFPEC forums:

Here is the code for the .sqf (script file)

// lightsoff.sqf
_pos    = _this select 0;
_range = _this select 1;

// Add more types if needed
_types = ["Land_lampa_vysoka", "Land_lampa_ind", "Land_lampa_ind_b", "Land_lampa_sidl", "Land_lampa_ind_zebr"];
for [{_i=0},{_i < (count _types)},{_i=_i+1}] do
{
   _lamps = _pos nearObjects [_types select _i, _range];
   Sleep 1;
   {_x switchLight "OFF"} forEach _lamps;
};

And here is the code to call the script in the trigger (or other script):

Code:res=[getPos player, 3000]execVM"lightsoff.sqf"

I might be able to produce something as early as tonight or if anyone else want to give it a go, almost all you need except the trigger logic is above. I would most likely change the range (2000 instead of 3000) and the position to the position of the power station, not the player...but other than that it should be pretty easy!

[loyalguard]

With a BIG thanks to Strag for some key guidance with triggers in the mission editor, the scripts/code above, and some additional reference material at OFPEC and the BIS forums...I have been able to trigger cutting the power and turning off the lights both destructively and stealthily. I need a little more time to tighten up the code and make it easy to insert in any mission but it is basically done. Here is a little demo video I made showing the more destructive form:

Blackout! on YouTube

EDITED TEXT BELOW:

Ok, I think I have the final, easiest way to implement this in any mission. I have been able to implement the blackout without external .sqf files so now all that is needed are game logics and triggers (one of each for every power station whose power you want to cut). Here are the step by step instructions:

1. Locate the power substation whose power you want to be able to cut.

2. Place a Game Logic on the substation and give it a name. For example, if you want to use the transformers in the NE part of Corazol you could name it "logicTransformersCorNE".

3. Place a Trigger near the Game Logic. You may want to give it a radius of 0 to remind you that is not trigger by entering it. Name it and give it text as you desire.

4. In the same Trigger, enter the following code in the Condition Field:

(getDammage (position logicTransformersCorNE nearestObject "Land_trafostanica_mala") > 0) OR (getDammage (position logicTransformersCorNE nearestObject "Land_trafostanica_velka") > 0);

What this does is constantly checks the damage level of the two possible types of transformers (mala and velka) used in ArmA (they are often co-located) nearest the Game Logic you placed. You need to use the Game Logic to identify the individual transformers. When it finds one of the types of transformers has been damaged (in this case any damage but you could make it 50%: "> .5" or whatever level you want (incl 100%: "== 1")) it triggers the code in the next step.

5. In the same Trigger, ether the following code in the On Act. field:

{_x switchlight "off"} foreach (position logicTransformersCorNE nearObjects ["streetlamp",1000]);

This code finds every street lamp within 1000 meters of the Game Logic (which is on the power substation) and switches them off. You can customize the radius by changing "1000" to whatever you want. Take a look at your city and figure out how big you would need to make it to affect the lights within. For example in Corazol, there are two substations, one in the SW and one in the NE so if you are using Corazol you may want to only have a radius big enough to affect the pertinent side of the border.

6. Repeat 1-5 above for each substation you want to be able to affect...just remember to give each game logic a unique name.

In order to cut the power stealthily the process is a little different so I am still working on it (and it may also require a .sqf).

Is there any interest in me editing Evo Blue (and possibly Xeno's domination) to make cutting the power possible (by destroying power stations)?

[Gillespie]

That's phenomenal, man. Thumb's up!

[Shiner]

Oh yes this is so going into TG Domination. Thanks Loyal!