ANGELofDEATH

Was your sudden death at the west bridge in Corazol?? It was gone at the time you joined. One of the ShackTac guys "landed" a full chopper on the bridge and everything went up in flames.. Coming in that hot tends to do that When more than 50 meters from the bridge is looked to be there, any closer and it disappeared.

That same night, when I joined the server I got one of those errors from a ShackTac map marker. I joined NoDebate's squad, then was never able to see any map markers the whole night.

I finally got to the squad who was just leaving Ortego on foot to Corazol. When we got to Corazol, NoDebate and another SM CTDd, leaving me by myself on the edge of the city. I recruited an AI AT, when he landed, he started giving orders to attack this and that, but never moved from where he dropped.
I was pretty much stuck in this area awaiting back up from the rest of squad 1 and 2. Who kept getting killed. I said to myself that upon death I was going to reconnect, ended up going for two hours without dying . Was kind of funny, as I watched everyone around me die over and over, mostly because of tactical failures and bad cover. Yep Dslyecxi, accused me of lonewolfing because I was everywhere his squad 1 went, still alive and using another gun(because I kept running out of ammo).

I was never able to leave the squad, I got into many different vehicles to join other squads, never worked(squad bug, has happened before to many people ,never to me).
Never able to recruit another AI, as the AI SL was still in charge but never left his drop zone.

Now on to the loss of AI on the server last night.

The repair trucks that spawn across the road from the POW camp are now respawning, they no longer stay where you leave them.

Lack of AI means a player will have to stay in the truck the whole time, to baby sit the truck.
and since so many players STILL have no problem driving/flying a non-respawnable vehicle and leaving them around the map, this will lead to more abandoned vehicles, less engies and more admin server restarts.

I will not play engie to clean up after others again.

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theeANGELofDEATH -F5-ANGEL
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ANGELofDEATH

A little strong no way man lol. Everything you said follows my opinions on AI. AND I would hope you continue to voice your opinions as you see them, whether you are a SM or not.

Of course I have gotten myself in trouble for using AI to cover my butt when I cant get other players to do it. Not much more satisfying than having a friendly AI save my butt, after a player ran off in another direction and got killed. Too bad the AI are too dumb to really let them off the leash.

I dont want to start a fight with you.. just commenting on your replies.

I can only assume he quoted you, as you had quoted me, and countered that it is not a valid use of AI when the server is at a low population.
You said for us to go play another mission or SP... Well I dont like the SP missions... I play Evo in hopes of getting in some great squad play with other players, even when the population is low(build it and more will come), which is why the TG community is here.

From now on I will personally kill my AI when leaving the server.... if they are put back in the server.

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theeANGELofDEATH -F5-ANGEL
Sarcasm is just another free service I offer
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JAMerica

Who said anything about starting a fight.

I'm just expressing my opinion, in the same manner as Satmax, whom you've just finished patting on the back for doing the very same thing.

Nonetheless, I now know when I don't need to bother logging on. I really have no interest in this style of play.

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Jamerius (Feral Druid)

Satmax

I quoted your post because your point seemed like you were pretty much totally against AI existing on the server at all. If I misread something, like what you stated about the limited role like the clean up crew, sorry, I jumped the gun a bit.

If I'm on a dead server, I still enjoy the use of AI as part of my fireteam. To restrict the use of AI because of a few people who don't use them efficiently kinda kills it for players like me who can't always hop on the server during those big populated ops nights.

When I logged onto the empty Evo server this afternoon and noticed AI was still off, I jumped into an AV-8 and laid waste to Corazol. Landed, loaded up AT, M16A4 ACOG GL, and Rambo'ed it into town. I dropped lots of artillery and mortar barrages. Then, I ran in, killing a bunch of crewmen, blowing up a couple of UAZs and a couple of D-30s. I finally died when EI flanked behind me. Did I try it again? No, because SP play on MP maps is retarded. I would've taken it a lot slower if I had an AI fireteam with me.

I'd say leave the AI in but remove uber AI like the sniper. However that may encourage those few who use AI incorrectly to grab a sniper rifle and send the AI cannon fodder in. It's a no-win situation that only responisibilty can hope to correct or switching off AI totally and leaving players to wait until other players show up on the server.

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SADD - Soldiers Against Dumb Drivers - Campaign
Friends don't let friends drive enemy vehicles.

ANGELofDEATH

I went back and added that to the beginning of the post because I thought you might take my comments as attacking yours. I was not. I value your opinion as much as anyones. Just because your opinions differ from mine, I wont disregard them.

In fact, the only problem I have with your initial post was you telling us not to play Evo unless we played with only real players, whether there was two of us playing while waiting for more players or ten of us on the server.

But dont worry about me, or my opinion. My SM runs out this month, and due to the lack of teamwork on all TG servers lately, I probably wont be renewing it.

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theeANGELofDEATH -F5-ANGEL
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loyalguard

We are looking at several different options for the AI issue. I am going to do some experimenting and testing to see what is possible/feasible/practical and present some potential options. We are trying to address server performance, realism, and gameplay.

In the meantime, keep giving us feedback on what you'd like to see or not see, your use of AI, and other related comments.

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|TG| LoyalGuard

tHa_KhAn

I personally feel A.I. should only be used for crewing vehicle positions when server population is small or the position would be excessively boring for a real human(truck driver on a game server). I've used A.I. plenty of times when I was alone or had low population on a server. However, I'd gladly give that up to see the kind of play I've gotten since the option has been enabled on the server. People were much more willing to squad up. People were much more willing to be part of an infantry group since the vehicle thing would be more complicated. I think giving ENG unarmed A.I.'s would be a good solution as it would allow vehicle and convoy's to be possible without having to worry about using them in a forward role.

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jex

I can't stand using the AI and have only ever done so when I needed a medic or a babysitter for vehicles. Having got on the server at times to find a bunch of AI with no leader who then started engaging the enemy was a little frustrating. Until it is fixed, it should be an SOP that anyone using AI kills them before they leave the server.

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Jex

tHa_KhAn

Currently the server is running with the "No A.I." option so no one can get A.I. The more I think about it, using A.I. for an instant medic or extra ammo is more like an exploit to avoid proper squad setup or preparation for a mission. As I mentioned earlier, A.I. I have come to the conclusion that A.I. should only be used in vehicles where needed. If the server is low population, well it's a large mission and may be impossible without assistance, but those are the breaks. If you are playing by yourself and think you're going to be by yourself for the whole time, then just play SP anyway or load another mission on the COOP server. Evo is not meant to be successful for 1 or 2 people.

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Dslyecxi

I actually only noticed you lone wolfing once you decided to pull an Abrams out of nowhere. I wasn't terribly concerned with the individual people running around who weren't in one of the main squads acting towards the main effort. As to the armor, we were running very low-key inf for the most part, and at max we had one tank. You showed up in another one and that struck me as a rather lone-wolf thing to be doing. It was in keeping what I had observed from you in the past on the server - you, in an Abrams, typically with a little support convoy following you. Excuse me if I was mistaken.

Corazol was infantry versus armor. It's a bit difficult to do. But hey, if you want to take an attitude about how we played, that's cool. Digging at the group in general after-the-fact is great from a community relations standpoint, after all. I sincerely hope that your attitude is not brought about by you not having been accepted into ShackTac when you had inquired into it. You'll note how I didn't make any specific jabs at anything aside from one TG'er who decided to drive right into friendly troops in an enemy vehicle. If you'd like me to be less tactful about what I observed and share more of it, please, let me know. I think it's a better idea to peacefully coexist rather than snipe at each other, but please do let me know if I'm of the wrong mindset.

From where I was, thinks went well all the way up to Corazol, at which point there was a short rough spot which was then taken care of. I'm sorry if our style of playing Evo was not up to your standards. I hope that we don't inadvertently put you through such heartache again in the future. I suppose I should also offer up my apologies for giving you an environment with more than 10 players in it.

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jex

This is a pity. People don't need to use a game menu to join a squad and running around on one's own is against SOP's (if this was BF2, said players would be kicked). Arma doesn't have the ability to force people into a squad but we shouldn't have to. Being part of the team is what TG is meant to be about and it's a shame that not everyone agrees with this philosophy.

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Jex

Dslyecxi

Oh, I agree. As a general statement, I was happy with most of the TG players during that session. Those who joined our squads, respected our wishes, and played along with us. It seemed like there were always a few people running around doing their own thing, or taking things at their own pace, versus accomplishing the collective goals set by the primary elements (the first three squads), goals which were not always easy and typically resulted in some violent engagements (the kind I and others prefer). This was brought to light the most by the sudden an unwelcome appearance of a tank towards the tail end of our playing there. We were trying to avoid using armor, aside from when breaking a tough armor blockade at Corazol (which we're apparently taking flak from Angel for). That another player jumped into a tank, without coordinating with higher (in this case I was acting as PltCo and 1st Squad was the HQ element), was a bit frustrating. Instead of making a big deal out of it at the time, I called a wind-down for ShackTac and left shortly after.

My frustration at the moment is to come into another thread (and not the AAR of the session itself) and see someone taking cheap shots at my group when they were, from my view, one of the problem players we experienced during the session. If they had issues, they could have addressed them in our AAR thread, PM'd me, or done any number of other things. Taking cheap shots like he did, though... bleh. It's a bit disheartening. It's little things like that that make me hesitant to even move into the conceptual planning stages of a new TG/ShackTac joint op.

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tHa_KhAn

Perhaps everyone needs to be reminded that when there is a dominant infantry squad that leader is essentially considered the PL. In this case it sounds like Dslyecxi was in that role. As stated in the SOP's, he would get to call the shots as far as approach and tactics and use of resources.

I was not there so I don't know what happened, but according to the AAR everything looked like it worked for the most part. If anyone had a problem with either side, then please take it to an admin. I understand that seeing a large group of non-regs on the server may change the atmosphere, but everyone must respect the basic rules. Again, I'm just stating this to clarify for anyone who is confused about the actually rules/guidelines we try to follow on the server.

Now lets get this thread back on focus to actual reviews of the mechanics of the new version. Feel free to also include suggestions for gameplay rule changes as well, but leave the personal feelings aside and use PM if you have a problem with someone

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loyalguard

Evo Blue - TG Edition 1.0 has been released. Please see the following thread for details and provide feedback:

Evolution Blue - TG Edition 1.0

I am closing this thread to make sure all future feedback is consolidated. I have noted all suggestions and other reports from this thread for further explotation as appropriate. Thanks for your participation!

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|TG| LoyalGuard