LeftSkidLow

I think you need to keep the MH-6's respawnable, with Evo missions taking 6+ hours I'd say the chances of noobs crashing every one of them into the ocean within that amount of time is very good. Once they are in the ocean there is no recovering them. I agree with a lot of the complaints but I fear you guys are gonna implement a blanket solution that negatively effects the dedicated transport pilots whom I don't think are causing too many problems.

Sleepdoc

I agree wtih Left Skid on this issue. However, I do not think anyone was actually questioning the rationing of simple transport. were they?

I thought were talking only about "high value assets" like cobra gunships and humvee tows, m1a1s etc. you know. stuff with guns on em.

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Sleepdoc

My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

(and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

tHa_KhAn

Skid, people like you are the ones we want to keep around. You dedicated transport guys are not part of the problem and we will work for a solution that keeps you guys in the sky.

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Sleepdoc

Hmm. It seems to me that non armed, dedicated transport vehicles are not the issue. So this leads me to believe that the tweak we are looking for goes both ways. Let me expalin.

The "realism" we are looking for in an EVO server is realism in the field of combat. In other words, I can see no reason to limit, at all, the availability and respawn times of non attack vehicles.

In other words, do we really lose alot if we allow Little birds and non armed Humvees and 5 tons to have instant respawns (back at base) when they are abandoned or wrecked? Especailly if we balance that with this new idea of developing rigorous access protocols for the higher value asets (the stuff with guns on em)??

This way, we really accomodate and promote the presence of dedicated transport guys. They will know with absolute confidence that if some knuckle head has come into our server and trashed the transport little birds, for example, that they wil not be penalized with a long dealy time. I think we need to keep the dedi transport guys well rewarded and well supplied so that we can implement the more important aspect of our play (support of new arrivals and respawns)

I'm Just thinking out loud here. But I'm not seeing the downside of instant respawn for dedicated transport assets in a server that is commited to "join on the fly" play and "realism" in the combat phase..... This would be rediculous in a "true coop mission" (Dyslexci's term .. and one i tend to agree with). but that is not what TG EVO is all about. It is its own animal.

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Sleepdoc

My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

(and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

Shiner

I would never want to put a system in-place that limited the access to non-assault transport vehicles.. they are just to crucial to getting anything done on an island of this size.

My system was just a means of control for high-value assets (at base or potentially FARPs) only. They would spawn on markers, just like the respawns currently do, so no spawns in the middle of the map. Only difference from the current setup is that the access would be limited by the verification steps we decided to implement.

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Evil Koala

There would be no need for instantly respawning transport helicopters if you control who flies them.. That alone would keep the knuckle heads from crashing them, unless their squad authorized it.

I'm not talking about needing a number of points to fly it, but using Shiner's idea, a system requiring a number of squad members and an SL to authorize the request for the role of pilot.

peardog

I assume you are referring to POST Organized COOP? Like after 0030 Hrs EST. (approx. when we cleared Delores..)? I know that being one of TWO Abrams that helped Clear Cayo, and the Abrams escorting the Squad (2) who captured the ememy officer and sent him packing back to base... That those objectives were cleared...

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Have a great day! 2008!!!


TG - SOP -- TeamSpeak Server Information - REQUIRED READING

Sleepdoc

hmm.....

I'm not sure Evil. I reserve the right to be wrong and for you to be right (lol), but I am not yet convinced of your argument WRT instant respawning dedi helis.

I am thinking about this at a level in coordination with the new comms channel protocol we are considering (still waiting for a mandate from Strag and the rest of the higher ups).

Are you familiar wit the details of the new comms structure being considered? It gives dedicated transport guys a new and more important role and I want to promote that role. I want more people to find it easier to try their hand at that role. Its a compromise. If I want to see more people take that critical and unselfish role (as you do so well), then TG needs to make that asset easily available. but as you pointed out, more available potentailly equals more knuckle heads. I'm not yet convinced it isnt worth the risk though. We need to promote more and more people taking that unselfish role.

In the context of what EVO is (a place for people to come in and out as they wish), and in the context of what TG is (a precariously balanced philosophy that requires maturity and discipline and yet promotes and welcoems new guys to learn here), there is a very special place for dedicated transport. They do a job that is unselfish. Typically, knuckle heads are selfish. I do not consider people trying to learn dedi tranport but screwing it up as necessarily knuckle heads. they are more like unselfish rookies. there is a difference.

Dedicated transport poeple are different. We alraady respwn the Little birds for them. They already know they can dump one and it just "comes back". so why put ANY limit on that. Why not create a new balance....

on one side....

unlimited instant respawn of wrecked dedicated transport vehicles (LBs, 5tons and Humvees) with 2 or 3 minute hold times on abandoned ones that are not wrecked.

on the other side.....

A new control scheme, as envisioned by Shiner, on high value assets.

? well? Did I sell you yet? did i change your thinking Evil? Or is my way of thinking fundamentally flawed becuase I'm missing something?

Remember. I reserve the right to be very wrong. LOL.

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Sleepdoc

My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

(and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

peardog

Nicely said...

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TG - SOP -- TeamSpeak Server Information - REQUIRED READING

E-Male

Such type of control has been difficult, always has been, likely always will be.

I would echo SleepDoc's comments on this matter thus far.

Leave the air transport and vehicles as they are (more or less) and focus on the high value kill machines.

One exception may be the Blackhawks. These duel-purpose birds are quickly crashed and often left broken in the field.

Thus far I have never been unable to acquire an unarmed Little Bird for transport missions. Joining a squad to acquire one to then NOT be part of an infantry squad would be unreasonable. I am not convinced that there is any great problem with the unarmed Little Birds at this point and would strongly recommend against any changes here until we clearly have a persistent problem with this vehicle.

I have seen individuals come on the server, immediately take a Blackhawk, crash it, then disconnect. I am taking note of names and will report to admins any repeated infractions with the vehicles to the Admins.

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E-Male

Sleepdoc

E-Male,

The Blackhawk issue is unique. And you have correctly indentified a weakness in my argument that requires clarification.

I consider the normal blackhawk, which only has door guns, as the "instantly respawnable" one.

I consider the Blackhawk with FFAR rockets the higher value aset whic needs to be requisitioned.

I guess EVO does not have truly unarmed Blackhawks.

I'm prepared to think of the door gunner version as "unarmed" in my argument. They are already the ones that respawn, just like the Little Birds.

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Sleepdoc

My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

(and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

BarnacleofDoom

From a personal perspective, I usually rate the -60s as high value assets because
1) Both transport high numbers of people and
2) do it quickly.

Sleepdoc, I can see your point about the MG armed -60 but at the same time I think that it certainly needs to be treated differently than the LBs. I don't recall, but could we put it on a 30 minute timer for respawn or an hour or something? That would encourage more careful use (perhaps).

Last time I played Evo was slightly over a week ago and in concert with the transport squad at the time, I spent my entire time on the server recovering vehicles. I might have actually shot at someone else once or twice, whereas I saw smoking LB/-60/you name it carcasses more times than I care to remember. I think tighter squad control might help a little bit but it may also be new folks that haven't quite gotten over the BF2 mindset yet. Perhaps we should wait a little bit to see what happens, especially since the latest patch has seen a jump in numbers on the server.

Apologies if I'm making redundant comments.

Sleepdoc

An opinion, by definition, cannot be redundant. Your input is appreciated.

I can see your point. LBs amd Humvees instant, MG Blackhawks in some time, and full requisition system for all other high value assets.

The issue remains, what is this requiresition system and how does it work?

Glenn

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Sleepdoc

My typos are legendary. I choose not to correct them as a form of unique signature

(and because forum spell checkers are a hassle) : )

I actually spell just fine. But my typing skills are the pits.

E-Male

While I agree that misuse of armed vehicles is a problem in need of a solution, long respawn times may not solve the problem. Here is why: we will, for some time to come be faced with uniformed or uncaring individuals joining the game, grabbing the first available armed heli, trashing it, and leaving. A long re-spawn time, on its own, will not stop this type of behaviour -- it will simply degrade the game quality for the rest.

So longer spawn times will need to be implemented along side some form of requirements that will discourage the grab and gun crowd (as has been suggested). Joining a squad, as a requirement, assumes that the SL or other squad members are not also uniformed or uncaring. This in itself is a huge assumption.

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E-Male

tHa_KhAn

This is why we play the unranked version now. Before, you have a few uncaring individuals play all throughout the day get the points, then trash the place leaving vehicles everywhere. Everyone who played the night before, would be stuck. Even those who had played correctly during the day. Then we'd have to either restart which put everyone back at 0 or recover all night. For those that only had a few hours to play, the unranked server is the lesser of two evils. It doesn't stop someone from trashing the high ranked vehicles, but it does allow a restart to solve the trashed vehicle problem.

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