Re: Limits on Medical Gear

**MarineSeaknight** · 03-10-2009, 08:46 PM

To combine two points in the topic, here's what I think.

Dyslexci brings up something I agree with, in that somehow limiting medical gear/changing the way the medical system in ACE works right now is something best left to the developers. That way, all changes made will be standard for every mission, giving those hard core realistic mission designers one less thing to do.

However, for now, I think that a good "quick-fix" for the issue of everyone carrying bandages/morphine/epi is to limit the supplies available in the mission. I'm talking Medics spawn in with all the needed stuff. Soldiers spawn in with the standard bandages and won't have access to grabbing/using morphine and epi. Nothing drastic like removing medical APCs/Tents, but maybe just dramatically decreasing the supply of the medical equipment they provide to force players to yield those supplies to medics only.

**beita** · 03-10-2009, 09:17 PM

Well ...

Big thing here is .. Medics DO NOT use medical equipment.

They can use the same syringe of Morphine 1000x. There is absolutely no need for a medic to resupply unless they drop their equipment for whatever reason.

So, giving extra medical equipment besides bandages is simply diminishing the need for medics in a mission.

**Blackdog1** · 03-10-2009, 10:51 PM

Every soldier in the RL carries his own medi-kit, some as I did, even make their own small kit to include the stuff that you specifically wanted. I specifically put in parafin gauze (great for flash burns) and fresh needles, if needed or if I got taken to some "hookey" local hospital, I had some kit of my own that a medic/doctor could use.

Therefore it is perfectly realisitic for soldiers/players to carry their own kit. However in game, I have then taken my hit or morphine and bandaged but still find my aim is shaking around all over the place, until I can get to a field hospital or next to a medic.

So I believe that the Medic's could be developed to do a little more, however I suspect all of this is simple Beta testing new things for ArmA2, hence why we have plasma in ACE but just cant use it yet.

***spacecadett*** · 03-13-2009, 02:17 PM

What I in my personal opinion feel is Arma is still a game, to make the game interesting and fun to play for people carrying out certain roles. You need specific limitations, one of these is limiting the medical supply's, calling out for medics etc adds so much to the game immersion. Both for the medics and the dudes in need of one.

The medic class is nothing to toy with and takes skilled players, who know what they are doing. This is why i feel making the medic vital to your squad/ team just makes for more interesting game play.

**LCpl. Soto** · 03-13-2009, 03:23 PM

You don't always have a medic available and needing a medic to administer bandages and morphine is unneccessary when a regular grunt can do it. The extra gear that doesn't work is why you have a medic, for all the serious injuries. I can understand limiting epinephrine for gameplay but bandages and morphine is over doing it. Maybe one morphine per player would be a nice limit, while the doc could carry some extras. Only being able to bandage someone or apply morphine and epinephrine to them near a field hospital is also over doing it. Having to be medevacd to a field hospital to fully heal up, i.e. like healing on a medic does is reasonable though.

**beita** · 03-13-2009, 03:53 PM

I disagree that everyone should be given morphine.

What morphine does, in ACE right now, is remove the penalty for being wounded. You can shoot better and run better.

Is that not "treatment"? Something a medic should do?

If you give a morphine to every soldier, 80% of the casualty cases are now handled by the grunts, and only when epinephrine is needed, does a medic need to show up. True, it would be better to let the medic handle it, to save your own medical supplies, but it is not necessary.

Giving only bandages works well in my opinion. You can stop the soldier from dying with buddy aid, but you can't get him back into fighting shape, that's the job for the medic.

**LCpl. Soto** · 03-13-2009, 06:32 PM

Having morphine issued to everyone is pushing it i suppose. With morphine, all I've noticed is that it prevents you from grunting in pain and passing out when pushing yourself after being injured. Even after morphine is applied you need a medic to heal on in order to fix your aim. I'd be fine with only medics carying morphine in regular line units, but like mentioned before Rangers and other specialized units should at least have one each if no medic is set in their squad. Since Morphine isn't issued to all soldiers IRL, might as well keep it to the medics in game too. Just sucks when commanders want every squad to operate independent of each other and you are in the squad without a medic. Most missions, regardless of size only have two medics. Not sure how many docs or combat lifesavers are in a regular line unit so maybe 2 is pretty standard. My unit has none at the moment, though we are not deployed and are a National Guard unit.

**Apocal** · 03-14-2009, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by LCpl. Soto

Not sure how many docs or combat lifesavers are in a regular line unit so maybe 2 is pretty standard. My unit has none at the moment, though we are not deployed and are a National Guard unit.

Actual corpsman/medics are pretty much one per rifle platoon. Occasionally more get attached, generally when you're talking an independent platoon manuevering as squads.

The numbers of CLS-qualified people depends a lot on the command. Some like at least one per squad, some one per team, some places demand every person leaving the wire be CLS. But CLS would be more akin to what we do when bandaging and applying epinephrine to prevent death, not full blown medical care the HM or medic units simulate.

**LCpl. Soto** · 03-14-2009, 02:54 PM

Thanks for the info Apocal.

**jex** · 03-15-2009, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by beita

I disagree that everyone should be given morphine.

What morphine does, in ACE right now, is remove the penalty for being wounded. You can shoot better and run better.

Is that not "treatment"? Something a medic should do?

If you give a morphine to every soldier, 80% of the casualty cases are now handled by the grunts, and only when epinephrine is needed, does a medic need to show up. True, it would be better to let the medic handle it, to save your own medical supplies, but it is not necessary.

Giving only bandages works well in my opinion. You can stop the soldier from dying with buddy aid, but you can't get him back into fighting shape, that's the job for the medic.

Yep i agree with what beita says. I see the medical system as giving the medic player some more responsibility other than being a god that players kneel before to worship

Since wounds are not complicated in arma, the only thing a medic has now is the treatment. I see this work as the medics work since he has to hang back out the firefight anyway so it's not fair to do his job as well as get to fight.

If a medic is nearby, other players should not involve themselves in treatment period. They should be covering the medic and the casualty. Too many instances where players rush to the aid of a fallen comrade but it is not their job. As for drugs, are grunts qualified to administer morphine? What if they do so but it kills the soldier because it's not what he needs - a medic is the person trained to know what treatment to give.

I wonder if it is possible for regular soldiers to apply bandages that only give a little benefit? i.e. maybe they use a bandage but it only slows down the time of a bleed out whereas the medic gives full capabilities?

I'd really like to see the medic made more important on the battlefield as he is in RL.

**mattag08** · 03-23-2009, 11:27 AM

I agree with many of the points here. If you look at the contents of an IFAK (Improved First-Aid Kit), you'll find it is actually quite limited. Only the very basic supplies are included for immediate triage of a wounded soldier. I believe ACE is geared towards realism, so it only makes sense that your average soldier would not carry anything more than just bandages.

Additionally it seems that having no medical supplies available in ammo crates would solve most of the problems. If there is some way to restrict access to only medics (or some sort of item that only medics can create) then that would be ideal.

Someone mentioned that if you take away medical supplies all a medic can do is stablize someone's aim. That's not entirely true, they can also build an aid station correct? I think that is a very useful ability.

IFAK Contents
Tourniquet, Combat Application
Bandage Kit, Elastic
Bandage Gauze 4-1/2" 100/Pkg
Adhesive Tape Surg 2" 6's Roll
Airway, Nasopharyngeal, 28fr, 12s
Glove, Patient Exam 100/Pkg (4ea)

**Fincuan** · 03-23-2009, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by mattag08

That's not entirely true, they can also build an aid station correct? I think that is a very useful ability.

Negative, they can't build aid stations at all without extra scripts in the mission.

**mattag08** · 03-23-2009, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Negative, they can't build aid stations at all without extra scripts in the mission.

Ah. I guess I'm thinking of Evo Blue perhaps.

**jex** · 03-23-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by mattag08

Ah. I guess I'm thinking of Evo Blue perhaps.

They can in domination.

When making a mission you can remove all weapons and equipment from players and custom fill an ammo box. All you would need to do after that is assign a bandage, morphine and Epe to the medic. As I understand the wounding system

Bandages stop bleeding. Even if you heal at a medic you'll still take damage if you do not bandage
Morphine steadies your aim and you still need it even if you heal at a medic
Epe - you are dead without it

Whilst morphine may steady your aim and bandages will stop you bleeding so you are equivalent to an uninjured soldier (?), yoor damage will still be somewhere between 0 and 1. Further damage will result in the likelyhood of dying whereas healing at the medic would set you back to full health and lessen the risk of immediate death from fast projectile strike.

**Apocal** · 03-23-2009, 03:06 PM

Damage is equated to blood loss in the ACE medical system. A little pale, lost a lot of blood, etc.

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