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09-07-2009, 10:55 PM #106
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
Theres so many VON threads here its hard to decide where to post feedback about it, but I'll just use this one for now.
Just got finished playing a mission by falcon on the alpha server, about 35-40 players.
Good news: VON works, not very many crashes, yay
Bad news: Direct is nowhere near ideal, the main problem being it does not fade naturally as you get further from the speaker, the speaker almost sounds as loud when your standing right next to him as he does 60m away. And at 81m, he goes completely silent, so the cutoff range is prety abrupt. Now you may think "Hey its working whats the problem, just dont use direct". Well when speaking on other channels, your character uses direct anyways (which makes sense cause it simulates you talking on radio) so this problem is apparent in any transmission you make (but much more apparent on direct).
Ugly News: There was alot of mic spam on direct during the mission..... which is normal especially when players are just happy that VON is working again. What is NOT good is that because players sound like they are always right next to you, even if they are 50m back, that means any excessive/senseless comms and chatter is magnified x100 to all recipients in 80m radius.... to them, they are just having some fun shooting the ****, to you, they are right in your ear when you are trying to do something (like scan for hostiles, give orders to your squad, plan your next move, listen to CO orders, listen for enemy vehicles, look at map, etc).
So anyways main point I wanted to make here is: until the DIRECT comms issue gets sorted and it fades the further out you get from a player, I think a TG SOP needs to be established about excessive comms and there definitely needs to be radio discipline once the mission is underway, otherwise it can be just as bad as TS with tons of voices talking all at once in your ear about nonsense. Maybe Im the only one that thought this way but Im prety sure there is others at least during that session that know what Im talking and have simular observations.
Thanks for the games tonight though, I hope to get more into ArmA2 as the developers slowly patch up the problems that the game has had at launch and no doubt it will be an excellent game as more patches are released.
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09-08-2009, 01:26 AM #107
Re: VON Channels and their purpose
|TG-1st| The Vanguard

TG Pathfinder | Armed Assault Admin | Bearer of the Pink Shirt
Ingame Name: |TG-1st| Xmaster
Server Rules and SOP's || Contact an Admin
-- I always wanted TG to be different than anyone else out there. We need to be unique in what we offer and how we play, if not we are simply competing with everyone else. --
The BigC
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09-08-2009, 01:54 AM #108
Re: VON Channels and their purpose
i have not upgraded to the new beta b/c i am a wuss and am to lazy to do the dozen steps or so flawlessly so it works but nonetheless i have been reading the comments on here and people have been making some great posts, but what i have not seen since there is a problem with the direct channel not working is using mumble? i know that i am going to get rammed for that comment but it seems to work great on other tittles and from what little i do know of the program is a lot like TS only deeper and better suited for a game like arma.



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TacticalGamer Arma Pathfinder - Callsign Spartan 14
"...The scab is a traitor to his IHS, his fellow gamers, and his community....." ~ Jack London, Amended by ME!
"TG was created to cater to a VERY specific type of gamer rather than trying to appeal to the greater gaming population....Tactical Gamer is not mainstream. We are not trying to attract mainstream gamers" ~ Apophis
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09-08-2009, 02:56 AM #109
Re: VON Channels and their purpose
Hang on, a dozen steps?
Download beta, unzip it, double click it and say "OK" when it asks, then use new shortcut to launch.
...
But yeah, the idea of installing yet another application (in addition to Ventrillo and Teamspeak and anyone remember RogerWilco?) Not too excited to jump on another one. Unless Mumble somehow washes the dishes for me, I personally will resist yet-another-voice-app *especially* now that VON is back on track.
Earlier points RE: noisy comms just make the point to keep Direct Chann to a minimum. Treat it like a "real" channel until it has a shorter broadcast.
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09-08-2009, 10:27 AM #110
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
Valid observation, but all the comms protocols in existence call for limited chatter. Adding another isn't needed. Like any game with chat or voice there will be people abusing or more likely just not getting the fact that it bothers other people. If a friendly suggestion/reminder from a fellow player is not enough, grab an admin or at least take names and post in the contact admin forum of players who ignored the friendly reminder. I think the novelty will wear off and a natural drop off of chatter will occur, but in the mean time get the mission CO's attention or contact an admin.|TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

XBL GT: Khan58






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09-08-2009, 01:25 PM #111
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
What Khan said guys, the only way to combat abuse, no matter how inocuous and silly, is to report if it persists.
Also, I screwed around with the VON today on the server, so let me know if the bandwidth being used lessons and the breakups mid comms stop. Also, if there is a significant drop in quality....










Contact an Admin | Nominate your teammates for a ribbon | TG Primer | Kicked? Banned? READ THIS FIRST! | Server Rules and SOP's
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09-09-2009, 02:14 AM #112
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
tHa_Khan, although current SOP does call for limited chatter, it appears that the majority of players on this day had not read any of the SOP's or were ignoring completely.
If its one or two players, it easy to report, but when theres several players, its prety hard to put up friendly reminders.
Either way, I will send a report on a definite player that was not responding to "friendly reminders".
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09-09-2009, 05:17 AM #113
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
Fuzz, on my side, the direct chat does soften as I go further out. Under Sound Options, how far to the right is your Sound Effects set? Mine is almost at half.
I've actually wished it was louder sometimes...until we realized enemy can hear us. haha
I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty Platinum with 2 standard, own power plug, speakers.
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09-09-2009, 11:56 AM #114
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
Romaniac, I had Sound Effects at around 80%, and I have an Sound Blaster X-Fi Extreme Gamer.
Maybe there is a difference from SB drivers (which are notoriously bad for having so many versions) so maybe the card I have is not supporting the fade out ranges, I guess more tests are needed, hopefully its just on my end.
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09-09-2009, 01:25 PM #115
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
@Fuzz,
I understand and agree with your assessment. However, it is very difficult to run a fairly public server and force people to actually read and understand some SOP's. People will always give out a password to get friends or anyone who hops on TS into the server. It will be a logistical nightmare to have 24/7-365 admin/instructor coverage to hand out a password after demonstrating proper play. Having the password in a file or SOP's only encourages skimming to the password.
All we are left with is to just hope players come here for a team experience and after a reminder are will to respect their fellow player. If not, I'm sure the list of reports will grow, but we do not have a much better way to monitor VON than with the concerned players.|TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

XBL GT: Khan58






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09-09-2009, 03:38 PM #116
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09-09-2009, 04:00 PM #117
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
With respect, I tried to alert "admins" that the server was choking because people were singing in direct comms and I was kicked from the server for using "global" the ONLY channel that anyone could be heard on.
So I wont be making that mistake again.
PS the quality of TS is many times higher than VON even under heavy load, I really want the VON system to work but currently I have given up in most instances and just type.
Also my ping on the server has gone up from 90ms to 130ms since the introduction of VON.
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09-09-2009, 04:33 PM #118
VON and its problems.
I thought I would provide some technical insight into the various VON problems and some minor suggestions on how to fix things.
PROBLEM 1.
Teamspeak 2 is far more bandwidth efficient and provides better audio clarity.
The reason TS works so efficiently is because:
1) It is single cast.
2) It uses a capped codec.
3) It uses an efficient codec.
So what does that mean?
When you sit in a TS channel the maximum bandwidth that channel will consume is set to the codec value, because you can only hear one omni directional audio stream the server only has to provide that finite bandwidth at any given time. So for instance let’s say TG gives uses the best audio codec available on teamspeak, they know the bandwidth for any given moment in time is 25.9kb. In ARMA 2 this figure can be anything from 3kb to (guestimate) 150+kb.
So what does it really mean?
It means in a nutshell that direct channel is a nightmare, it allows the players to mistakenly or even maliciously flood the network with data, I propose that if 20 players stood within a 20 foot radius and began to talk in game with direct comms the server will choke. Put simply the VON solution used in game does not scale.
In TS2 you know that even if everyone talks at once the server only has to honour the 25kb upload, in ARMA 2 it’s a data free for all AT THE COST OF IN GAME NETCODE, i.e. if everyone is using comms it effects things like flying, shooting, moving whereas in TS2 the load is on a "separate" server with a known data value.
So?
Try to dissuade players from using the lower level communication systems such as direct communication.
OR
Dont use VOP / Wait for VOP to mature.
OR
Go back to the developers and ask them to disclose any QOS work that can be done with the servers routing.
PROBLEM 2.
The ARMA 2 audio engine is immature and effected by 3rd party applications.
I suspect that ARMA2 works best with a set of standard stereo headphones; this is because users with hardware audio engines provided by for instance Creative Labs or Asus are suffering even more audio damping because of hardware effects such as doppler magnification, this is supposed to give a sense of space but is in fact just making audio totally distorted.
Efficiently users who invested in decent audio equipment are experiencing the worse VON behaviour because effects such as EQX and SmartVOL (which cannot always be disabled) are causing some sounds the engine produces to be inaudible including other people talking, this in turn makes players feel frustrated because they dont understand why someone is ignoring them.Last edited by HOTMACHINA; 09-09-2009 at 05:17 PM.
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09-09-2009, 04:54 PM #119
Re: VON, TG & Arma 2
Were you kicked by an actual ArmA2 admin or just a voted admin? Feel free to respond in PM or contact Admin forum.
I find it odd and doubt if you were attempting to get a CO or ArmA admin's attention in a respectful manner you were kicked from the server. Also, if your description is accurate that a large group was singing a song then I would suggest dropping out of the server and checking TS for an admin or hitting the contact admin forum with a list of names. Trying to shout over or drowned them out probably gave anyone in charge the wrong impression.|TG-12th| tHa_KhAn

XBL GT: Khan58






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09-09-2009, 06:06 PM #120
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Posts
- 93
Re: VON and its problems.
I agree with you from a technical point of view. I think asking BI to try to put a QQS regarding von would be the best approach.
It isn't only direct communication that would cause the sound positional problem. All channels broadcast positional sound and are not omnicast as one would assume. This is because Arma 2 is simulating people talking over a radio net. Therefore, if someone is contacting their squad on group channel and I am on a different squad, I can still hear that person speaking (although somewhat quieter).
One question that I do have is I understand that the quality of von can be adjusted via a server setting. Therefore, I ask the admins to indicate what is von currently set to, and if a reduction of the voice would mitigate some of the bandwith problems.
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