Re: Thoughts from a SL.

**Dredge** · 11-09-2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

Watch out with this one though. It smells of the elitism that turns into the same players always getting flying roles.

While I understand that you don't want a person to crash a C130 full of people, any person should be allowed to have a go at flying if he thinks he's practiced enough. I play at TG because anyone is allowed to the party based on maturity and teamwork, NOT -not in any way- based on skill.

I keep hearing this argument that you have to be 'good' to fly across all multiplayer games I play on TG. In the end I totally disagree with it on a fundamental level. And so does TG if I read the mission statement correctly.

The rest, good reminders ty.

Thats not the case at all. I understand where you are comming from but you also have to realize:
1. We where hosting an Event that opened up TG to alot of new people, and they wanted to see what we where all about and if it really was like the PC Gamer article.
2. With this many players and a Large event size we wanted to make sure we had the most COMPETENT people filling the roles that we could, to help provide command and control
With that being said. If you are semi-good at flying a helicopter a TG Main event isnt the time to realize that you havent mastered your landing technique. Thats all that he is saying. We always try and switch roles during games however, alot of the same people come back and volunteer for the roles that they do really well. So there are always more things for the CO to consider during that round of gaming. Lastly we have a very dedicated group of pilots that always volunteer for flying just as we have guys that lead well. All are willing to try new positions and switch it up but most times in game everyone has the opinion about who should be where. And I'm sure if asked one of them would give up the slot to let someone else try and show they might just be a little better.

**tHa_KhAn** · 11-09-2009, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

Watch out with this one though. It smells of the elitism that turns into the same players always getting flying roles.

While I understand that you don't want a person to crash a C130 full of people, any person should be allowed to have a go at flying if he thinks he's practiced enough. I play at TG because anyone is allowed to the party based on maturity and teamwork, NOT -not in any way- based on skill.

I keep hearing this argument that you have to be 'good' to fly across all multiplayer games I play on TG. In the end I totally disagree with it on a fundamental level. And so does TG if I read the mission statement correctly.

The rest, good reminders ty.

While I agree on pub settings and in certain TG titles, the effort an organization that goes into a closed ArmA Event is on order of a Scrim. I think closed events should be more selective of pilots to avoid the huge waste of time for all players that inexperience can bring. However, a regular pub night the requirements should be much more lax.

**InFireBaptize** · 11-09-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

Watch out with this one though. It smells of the elitism that turns into the same players always getting flying roles.

While I understand that you don't want a person to crash a C130 full of people, any person should be allowed to have a go at flying if he thinks he's practiced enough. I play at TG because anyone is allowed to the party based on maturity and teamwork, NOT -not in any way- based on skill.

I keep hearing this argument that you have to be 'good' to fly across all multiplayer games I play on TG. In the end I totally disagree with it on a fundamental level. And so does TG if I read the mission statement correctly.

The rest, good reminders ty.

i like to see statistic on each player, like for instance if you fly the chopper, everything will be record in a database, number of times you flew, successful flying, crashes, accidents, etc... isn't that what happens in real life anyway! they track your career.

**Janitor** · 11-09-2009, 10:13 AM

I totaly agree with all the stuff in the first post, but nr 6 thats what i was getting most annoyed about.
The rifle volume was so high that when someone fired a shot 400 meters in front of you it sounded like he was standing next to you, this caused alot of confusion since you didnt know who was shooting, if it was you squad or someone elses.

Something that also felt wrong was when we started the assault on the first village the AI simply wouldnt return fire. how come they didnt engage the 3 landrovers with mounted machineguns and 3 squads of brittish infantry started to shoot at them?
I dont know if it was something in the mission that messed their actions up or if it was the arma AI itself that just was stupid, but it felt like they should have put up more of a fight.

Thats all i got to say about that but i think the event went pretty well, a bit bumpy in the middle but it turned out allright in the end

**|TG| B** · 11-09-2009, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by browna3

not all missions need to have lots of enemy presence. And if you find yourself getting a need to go on a mindless killing spree may i suggest a different game.

there are also a number of reasons why a smaller AI count is need on a large scale mission.
one of those reasons is that a large number of AI with a large number of human players = one very laggy server. What would you rather have? a laggy server or more AI so you can have your kill fix?

Originally Posted by beita

Therein lies the problem.

Do that and you get a fantastic mission that desyncs/crashes 10 minutes in. The server simply cannot support 60+ players and a large-scale AI mission without some very well made missions (lots of use of scripts to control AI behaviour and amounts). Though adding higher "quality" units, such as tanks and other assets, is a way around this, it has it's own set of problems.

Take Red Alert for an example it is a great mission for seeding the server. Under 20 players can start this and have a fight of their lives trying to repel tanks, choppers, and whole bunch of infantry. But start this mission with more than 20 and you get complete crash because there are too many AI movements that server has to send to each player. Twice I have seen the server crash with the attempt to play this mission with more than 20 players. Once I played it with 6 guys during the first defend part and it was insanity to the max.

Things get better. AI will be improved with the new suppression addition that is coming with the next patch. ACE2 mod changes the whole gameplay since it adds sophisticated AI enhancements. In a couple of months we will be looking at one of the most addicting and complete games. Until then learn the ropes, skill sets and meet your fellow TGers, familiarize with their personality and their style of doing certain things.

**Geronimo989** · 11-09-2009, 10:48 AM

I think the main reason why the wait was annoying was that the town was full of our troops and we had visual on enemies in town nearby, and we weren't engaging them for half hour because of some TK that was happening somewhere else. And I think I speak for most when I say I was annoyed because I couldn't hit anything with my gun and that was breaking the immersion. In the meantime snipers took down most of enemies, so we really didn't have any sense of doing anything useful. It is not about kill count, it is about the feeling of being in combat and doing something useful for the team. And there was no point in scanning sectors if there were 30+ people in the small town, and we knew where exactly the enemy was. Before and after that wait (Tyrone I think) everything was good and we were fighting as a team. I apologize if I spammed the text chat and made anyone's game worse in any way.

**Dredge** · 11-09-2009, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Geronimo989

I think the main reason why the wait was annoying was that the town was full of our troops and we had visual on enemies in town nearby, and we weren't engaging them for half hour because of some TK that was happening somewhere else. And I think I speak for most when I say I was annoyed because I couldn't hit anything with my gun and that was breaking the immersion. In the meantime snipers took down most of enemies, so we really didn't have any sense of doing anything useful. It is not about kill count, it is about the feeling of being in combat and doing something useful for the team. And there was no point in scanning sectors if there were 30+ people in the small town, and we knew where exactly the enemy was. Before and after that wait (Tyrone I think) everything was good and we were fighting as a team. I apologize if I spammed the text chat and made anyone's game worse in any way.

I apologize for the bog down mid game but we had some issues that the SL's and I needed to get squared away. That was the safest place I could think to put you. I really hope the air field charge made up for the long wait though

**Geronimo989** · 11-09-2009, 10:56 AM

Sure it was the biggest battle in any game I was part of (If you exclude strategy games).

**Miles** · 11-09-2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Geronimo989

I think the main reason why the wait was annoying was that the town was full of our troops and we had visual on enemies in town nearby, and we weren't engaging them for half hour because of some TK that was happening somewhere else. And I think I speak for most when I say I was annoyed because I couldn't hit anything with my gun and that was breaking the immersion. In the meantime snipers took down most of enemies, so we really didn't have any sense of doing anything useful. It is not about kill count, it is about the feeling of being in combat and doing something useful for the team. And there was no point in scanning sectors if there were 30+ people in the small town, and we knew where exactly the enemy was. Before and after that wait (Tyrone I think) everything was good and we were fighting as a team. I apologize if I spammed the text chat and made anyone's game worse in any way.

I was not present in the session, so I hope my comments about being bored weren't taken as any kind of judgment on anyone. They weren't meant that way. Just advice for new players that aren't used to this style of play.

That sounds terrible Geronimo, and I would be a little frustrated as well if I stuck it out through a long session and was never utilized on the battlefield. I can see how that wouldn't be very much fun. It sounds like there were technical issues during the session as well, making it more of a challenge for leadership to make sure everyone gets a piece.

**Dredge** · 11-09-2009, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Miles

It sounds like there were technical issues during the session as well, making it more of a challenge for leadership to make sure everyone gets a piece.

oh yeah...several technical issues
*beats head on wall*

**InFireBaptize** · 11-09-2009, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Geronimo989

I think the main reason why the wait was annoying was that the town was full of our troops and we had visual on enemies in town nearby, and we weren't engaging them for half hour because of some TK that was happening somewhere else. And I think I speak for most when I say I was annoyed because I couldn't hit anything with my gun and that was breaking the immersion. In the meantime snipers took down most of enemies, so we really didn't have any sense of doing anything useful. It is not about kill count, it is about the feeling of being in combat and doing something useful for the team. And there was no point in scanning sectors if there were 30+ people in the small town, and we knew where exactly the enemy was. Before and after that wait (Tyrone I think) everything was good and we were fighting as a team. I apologize if I spammed the text chat and made anyone's game worse in any way.

i knew there would be others on the same band wagon but apparently Geronimo if we don't like this type of play then we should go play COD4!!

**tHa_KhAn** · 11-09-2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Geronimo989

In the meantime snipers took down most of enemies, so we really didn't have any sense of doing anything useful. It is not about kill count, it is about the feeling of being in combat and doing something useful for the team.

That happens sometimes and it shouldn't. I think snipers get a Green fire order with no other specifics too often. It's up the commander to limit snipers, CAS, Arty, etc because despite them being real world tactics and very useful, this is just a game and not the real world at all and the grunts often get left out of the fun despite representing the most players.

**Dredge** · 11-09-2009, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

That happens sometimes and it shouldn't. I think snipers get a Green fire order with no other specifics too often. It's up the commander to limit snipers, CAS, Arty, etc because despite them being real world tactics and very useful, this is just a game and not the real world at all and the grunts often get left out of the fun despite representing the most players.

Our sniper team was on a RED weapons status. However they kept taking contact. They where very far infront of our main assault force. Everytime they relocated they would take contact from the new position. I was really trying to get everyone in the fight. At one point i have everyone online so we could all get some trigger time. The turkey shoot at the end was well worth it though.

**Geronimo989** · 11-09-2009, 02:51 PM

I think the ability of snipers to take out so many enemies is one of the faults of the game. You can snipe the AI from far away, and they are not able to fire back or rush you. And suppressive fire is too ineffective in making you take cover, so you can pretty safely snipe even when fired at. It has to be changed in ACE to something like project reality, where your screen gets blurred when taking fire, and AI should react to fire better and engage at longer ranges. If you ACE guys are here please think about it, all other faults of the game combined are not nearly as realism-breaking as this. So far one man can take out entire AI infantry platoon with DMR or Dragunov and a little luck.

**1longtime** · 11-09-2009, 03:48 PM

Just a reminder, there is an After Action Report forum for these comments.

http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-a...ction-reports/

There is already an AAR thread started for the Sunday event.

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